Author Topic: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 20190 times)

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Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« on: December 17, 2011, 04:16:14 AM »
Hi folks,

Some of my '09 ideas from over the years:

Floatplane:


Twin engined:



Bf109M2:



Curtiss 109:



Extra Range option:


Let's see your ideas!

Regards,

Greg
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2011, 10:05:39 PM »
That B109M2 is fecking awesome Greg!!!
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Offline sequoiaranger

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 01:41:58 AM »
I have made several "navalized" Bf-109T's,



but one of these days will make my "ultimate" seagoing 109. It will have, however, a RADIAL engine in the same vein as the Japanese Ki-61-to-Ki-100!

Way back in the day, I had made a 1/72 "master" of a Ki-100 for a cottage-industry model company (Model-Aire International--"M.A.I."), but the company folded before the plane came out, and of course Hasegawa came out with a fine version themselves. But I still have the original master, and will incorporate that into my "ultimate 109". I am using a Monogram Snap-Tite 109 for the basis, as it is 1/64 or so, and thus is "roomier" and will allow extra length with add-ons without looking out-of-proportion. (sigh) Don't look for it anytime soon, as I have a long list of projects with greater precedence.

(Will include Me-109H wings, and Me-209 V5 tall tail)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 02:17:43 AM by sequoiaranger »
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 03:10:49 AM »
but one of these days will make my "ultimate" seagoing 109. It will have, however, a RADIAL engine in the same vein as the Japanese Ki-61-to-Ki-100!


Or maybe the Bf 109X:



Regards,

Greg
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 03:17:57 AM »
Hi folks,

Some of my '09 ideas from over the years:

Floatplane...


Found this here.
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2011, 03:24:03 AM »
That B109M2 is fecking awesome Greg!!!

The story behind it is that the German Ardennes offensive was successful and that the war essentially went on until '46.  However, whilst new jets were being developed/introduced in limited numbers, it was still up to the existing '109s and '190s to carry the burden.  In the case of the '190 it was the D variants and the Ta-152.  For the '109, it became the M variant.  This retained the DB 605DB/DC of the late 'Gs/'Ks but now added contra props, better vision canopy (based upon that for Me-262) and also had an armament of a single 30mm Motorkanone + twin 13 mm MG 131s.

The lower sub-variant also had a rocket booster in the tail.

Regards,

Greg
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 03:29:32 AM »
Hi folks,

Some of my '09 ideas from over the years:

Floatplane...


Found this here.


My that looks familiar.  First I have seen it - I am not surprised though that people come up with similar ideas.  I was looking for a different variation on the already known Bf-109W:


regards,

Greg
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2011, 05:42:41 AM »
When Adolf Galland rudely insinuated to Georing that he would rather have a squadron of Spitfires with which to go into battle, Georing decided to "Punish" Galland's squadron for that impudent remark. He had discovered that some mechanics had successfully mated a Diamler-benz engine and cowl to a captured, flyable Spitfire airframe,
so insited on fifteen more to outfit Galland's entire squadron!



An unintentional satisfaction with this model is that it demonstrates the similarities in the Bf-109 and Spitfire when given only a glance (for recognition). Because of the well-documented, and often modeled subject, the viewer's eyes looks at the coloring and markings and starts seeing Bf-109 before his "tricked" mind catches sight of something "un-Bf-109" about it.  I included Galland's famous "telescope" gunsight.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 05:07:13 PM by sequoiaranger »
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 07:57:28 PM »
I love tip tanks. Thanks for the inspiration.

If it pleases the artist, may I steal his idea for my next Bf-109 build?
 ;D
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2011, 02:02:50 AM »
Go for it!
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2012, 02:51:22 PM »
What the heck.  Clipped wingtips, looks even faster to me.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 09:41:01 PM »
What the heck.  Clipped wingtips, looks even faster to me.

Yeah. And I'd increase the tail area too.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 02:46:49 AM »
So, will the new Trumpeter Me509 kit provide a good basis for a Yokosuka R2Y Keiun?



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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2012, 05:44:32 PM »
Some more Me509 ideas:

  • Night fighter variant - probably need second cockpit
  • Twinned Me509Z
  • Turboprop variant
  • Carrier based variant
  • Captured variant
  • Non German variants - RAF, USAF...
  • Jet or Jet & Prop variant

Other idea?
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2012, 09:03:21 PM »
About the only one you haven't covered is a post-War French version in Indochina.

Regards,

John
Regards,

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Offline sequoiaranger

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2012, 11:56:57 PM »
>About the only one you haven't covered is a post-War French version in Indochina.<

Or a post-war, Merlin-powered Hispano HA-1113 (Buchon II?) version for Spain?
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2012, 03:19:00 AM »
Me 109TL



from FLUG-REVUE, June 1961.
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And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2012, 06:23:12 AM »
What the heck.  Clipped wingtips, looks even faster to me.







Watch out if Tophe sees that one!   :D :D :D :D :D

This twin is the most interesting for me of all the 109 derivatives, but they are all a handsome collection. One additional that comes to mind might be a German take on the Yak 15, where you take a 109 and undersling forward a BMW 003.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 06:25:39 AM by RussC »

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2012, 06:54:41 AM »
I believe one of the 109TL concepts had that very idea.  I can't recall the engine used, but I remember Unicraft had a kit of it and it appeared on the Luft46 website.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 02:14:08 PM »
I believe one of the 109TL concepts had that very idea.  I can't recall the engine used, but I remember Unicraft had a kit of it and it appeared on the Luft46 website.

Regards,

John


John,

I believe you are referring to this one:




Unicraft do it in both 1/72 and 1/48.  I am not sure if it is a fictional one though...not that it really matters too much to us.

Regards,

Greg
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2012, 08:34:20 PM »
That's the girl.  Luft 46 makes no mention it, but as you say that's moot.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »
I have underway a 1/48 Airfix Bf-109E-7 and a Tamiya Bf-109E-4 both featuring a cloth wing and one a cloth rear fuselage with horizontal stringers.     
To be finished ad indefinitum.    >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2012, 11:18:48 AM »
I have a plan to do a Bf-109E-4 with air-to-air refuelling...
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2012, 07:06:55 AM »
So, will the new Trumpeter Me509 kit provide a good basis for a Yokosuka R2Y Keiun?

Likely not as the R2Y1 was rather larger, being powered by a coupled engine made from two of the license-built DB601 engines.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2012, 07:12:51 AM »
Me 109TL

Back in my files, I've got an update of the article I did for the Luft '46 website on the Me109TL as well as drawings of of the different versions.  Finally usage was by the Israelis of Czech-built versions re-engined with Beryl engines obtained from the UK (they bought the entire program when the UK didn't want it).  I'll have to see if I can find and scan the three-views I did the "old fashioned way" by copy, cut, and paste.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2012, 07:16:05 AM »
One thought on the single-float variant, you want that center strut to go back far enough to pick up the main landing gear trunnions as it eliminates a lot of un-necessary redesign to carry the float loads.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 06:56:04 AM »
Quote
Or a post-war, Merlin-powered Hispano HA-1113 (Buchon II?) version for Spain?

or a Griffon on the 109, US or RAF test markings. 1943?

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 07:14:04 AM »
Since it can now be done in 1/48, how about a Me509Z?  I suspect one could find the necessary bits to do it in 1/72, too.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2012, 05:42:47 AM »
^ That is soooo sexy!  :-*
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2013, 06:29:24 PM »
Messerschmitt Me 309-XIII/246



Could be based on this Huma kit?



The Me 709 has already been built by Dizzyfugu



Note: Yes I know the 109 was called the Bf 109 but Willy M is the common theme here.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 06:33:53 PM by The Big Gimper »
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2013, 10:24:05 PM »
The 309 looks like it belongs in the line up at the air races.
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2013, 11:33:43 PM »
Huma also made an Me 609. I have the bagged version and it was one of their low pressure injection kits.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2013, 12:02:03 AM »
The 109 was referred to intechangably as the Bf 109 and Me 109 in both Messerschmitt and RLM
documents of the period, sometimes as both in a single document. So any numpty that gives
anyone grief over using Me 109, doesn't actually know what they are talking about.
 ;)

The XIII/246 looks like a decent basis for a speed record attempt or cross-country race aircraft,
however the lack of forward vision would make pylon racing problematic. You'd probably want to
crop the wings, as well.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2013, 02:01:43 PM »
Generally the designation Bf109 is correct up to the point where the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke became the Messerschmitt AG on July 11, 1938, whereas the designation changed to Me109.  However, as you note Jon, the nomenclature was all over the place with the two designations used interchangeably both by the company and officialdom.  Registration plates though, which were collected assiduously by RAF intelligence from wrecks throughout the war saw the steady change from Bf109 through to Me109 as newer ones were created.  Even so, by wars end you apparently still saw "Bf109"s.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2013, 03:07:49 AM »
Damn!!! If you can't trust the NAZIs to keep the paperwork/terminology correct, who can you... ;) ;D
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2013, 10:52:21 AM »
Damn!!! If you can't trust the NAZIs to keep the paperwork/terminology correct, who can you... ;) ;D

Reading the minutes of the Luftwaffe Ministry planning meetings for the Bf110/Me210/Me410/Ar240 which have been published in a book makes interesting reading.  Now, these were the blokes apparently in charge of the whole shebang but they keep making mistakes in the nomenclature and referring to aircraft like the Ar240 and the Me210 well after those projects had been abandoned.  Erhard Milch really disliked Willy Messerschmitt and that also comes out in the minutes.  So, it's no wonder the people near the bottom got it wrong as well.

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2013, 06:30:20 AM »
Something different - bare metal Bf109:

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2013, 09:26:01 AM »
Something different - bare metal Bf109:




Clearly the colors are all wrong on that. RLM Bare metal does not look like that at all  ;)
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2014, 11:53:48 PM »
Comunist Buchón and Co.  ;D


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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2014, 02:30:48 PM »

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2014, 08:25:41 PM »



I like this. Will save it for a later build.
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2014, 02:53:03 AM »
Hmmm…forced amalgamation of Messerschmitt and Focke-Wulf?
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2014, 04:04:27 AM »
Something I just found online by accident - the "Messerschmitt Me309 Mach"



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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2014, 04:17:12 AM »
Here is the original mini-story behind the Bf-109M series shown on the first page (and reproduced below):

"Following the success of Unternehmen Wacht am Rhein, and the sudden death of Stalin which halted the Soviet advance in the East, the German forces found themselves defending their own borders.  Whilst the new jets/rockets were promising, the tried and tested Bf-109 and Fw-190 versions still formed the bulk of the Luftwaffe’s fighting force.  In the case of the Fw-190 it was the Ta-152 series that now ruled.  Alongside it was the new Bf-109M (“Martha”) series – the Bf-109M-2 being the first variant to enter wide-spread service.

The Marthas were perhaps the greatest change since the Bf-109F/G series were introduced.  Based upon the Bf-109K, the M-2 was fitted with a DB-605L engine with a two-stage supercharger and MW-50 water-methanol injection giving just over 2000HP.  This drove a new 6 bladed contra-rotating prop which not only gave greater thrust (speeds in excess of 725 km/hr (450 mph) were regularly attained), but also helped reduce the take-off/landing difficulties long associated with the Bf-109 series (a major aid given some of the inexperienced pilots now being pressed into service).  Standard armament consisted of a single MK-108 30 mm Motorkanone firing through the propeller hub and twin MG-151/15 15 mm cowling guns.  The greatest visible difference however was the new cut down rear decking/all round bubble canopy.  Copying the ideas already seen in the similar late war Spitfire series, this was introduced at the request of pilots who argued that even the so-called “Galland Hood” of the late G/K series wasn’t sufficient.  This new canopy was similar in basic design to that developed for the new Me-262 but was obviously smaller to match the contours of the smaller Bf-109.  It also featured cockpit pressurization.

By the time the war ended in February 1946, over 1200 of the new Martha series had been produced."


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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2014, 04:27:00 AM »
Some found online here:



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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2014, 07:23:38 AM »
I like those last three..   Heck, I like most of what I see here, but that last one in the Spanish markings would be good Expo Experten "yeah, I remember that one " fodder...

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2014, 11:37:47 PM »
Something I just found online by accident - the "Messerschmitt Me309 Mach"






I love this :-*

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2014, 03:24:31 AM »
BMF anyone?

« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 03:28:28 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2015, 04:55:54 AM »
Interesting:  Conformal tanks on Bf-109E:

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2015, 06:04:46 PM »
Does anyone know if you can get either a kit or decals of the Finnish post war Bf-109 racers ( e.g. Below) in 1/48?

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Offline Modelnut53

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2016, 07:02:08 PM »
This was influenced by some drawings from this page.  The engines and main undercarriage are off a Me 410 and the tailplane is off a Zero.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2016, 07:36:23 PM »
This is so sweet!! A German Whirlwind!!!!  :)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 08:32:37 PM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2016, 04:37:06 AM »
Kind of looks like it should be a high altitude bird.
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2016, 06:24:02 AM »
Random idea:  Chinese Nationalist Bf-109 - probably E model or earlier.
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Offline perttime

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2016, 10:22:47 PM »
I believe the gear was fixed down as it was a testbed only and changing the design to incorporate this gear would have badly disrupted production.

Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2016, 01:17:49 AM »
According to what I found, this wasn't Bf 109V-3, but Bf 109V-31, a serial F-2 equipped with wide track undercarriage and with a retractable belly radiator, as a test-bed for Me-309

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Bf109G.pdf

(page 5 in a file, page 8 in a booklet)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 01:20:49 AM by Vuk »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2016, 03:12:33 AM »
I believe the gear was fixed down as it was a testbed only and changing the design to incorporate this gear would have badly disrupted production.


Indeed.

According to what I found, this wasn't Bf 109V-3, but Bf 109V-31, a serial F-2 equipped with wide track undercarriage and with a retractable belly radiator, as a test-bed for Me-309

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Bf109G.pdf

(page 5 in a file, page 8 in a booklet)


That's what I understood too.

You can actually get a kit of this in 1/72:

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Offline perttime

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2016, 12:02:38 AM »
According to what I found, this wasn't Bf 109V-3, but Bf 109V-31...
V3 did sound like something too early for this....

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2016, 03:41:41 AM »
Yeah, the V-3 was a tad different:



Though you can get a kit of this too:

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2016, 04:10:50 AM »
Speaking of odd Bf109s, try the V48 with V tail:



And yes, one can get kits and/or conversions for this variant.
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2016, 04:02:23 AM »
Does anyone know of a 1/48 kit or conversion for the Bf109H?

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2016, 05:10:31 AM »
I think you are out of luck Greg. I reviewed Scalemates and I saw every model/conversion but the H.
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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2016, 05:29:53 AM »
Cool artwork found online:

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2018, 06:05:23 PM »
Me-109 with Me-163 bits


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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2018, 04:19:44 AM »
Different
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2018, 10:46:52 AM »
Crossing FW-190 and Me-109K



Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2018, 09:12:02 PM »
Hybrid Fighters


Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2018, 04:37:59 PM »
Avia S1999 in Israel service


Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2018, 09:01:55 PM »
What if Bf 109 received Jumo 213, like Fw190?

Would you increase tail fin area? Would you lengthen wings?


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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2018, 11:15:20 PM »
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Bf109, Me209, Me309...Me509 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2018, 09:06:18 PM »
Mixing Tamiya 1/100 Me-262 and Heller 1/72 (undersized IMO) Bf-109