Author Topic: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)  (Read 11747 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« on: February 16, 2012, 05:16:16 AM »
Seeing artoor_k's latest contributions to the Physical Models section of the forum gave me pause to consider the subject of 2X and 3X wheeled vehicles.  In particular motorcycles, motorcycles with side car, and motor-tricycle type vehicles. 

One particular motorcycle that I am particularly impressed with is the  Rokon 2X2 motorcycle as shown in this image from the Rokon web page:


Image source: Rokon 2X2 motorcycles ([url=http://www.rokon.com]www.rokon.com)[/url]

Wikipedia - Rokon Motorcycles
Rokon World

Arctic Cat Cub 2X2 Motorcycle (from the Rokon World web page)

Image source: Bob Gallagher/Rokon World
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:19:13 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 05:43:33 AM »
Back in the 80's I drew up this sidecar what-if.  It is supposed to be 2-Wheel Drive (possible 3-Wheel Drive too) and to use the Yamaha V-Max motor for power.
 With the bodywork removed you can see the frame is basically the floor and just a simple frame to hold the bodywork

Offline elmayerle

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 10:17:06 AM »
So would kettenrad variations and such like fit in here?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 10:25:29 AM »
So would kettenrad variations and such like fit in here?


The SkKfz 2 KettenKrad was capable of operation without the handlebar/wheel assembly mounted so it was more of a full-tracked vehicle and not a motorcycle or motor-tricycle. 
Your call on whether to include it here or to just start a new discussion topic. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline kitnut617

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 10:34:43 PM »
On my sidecar idea, I came up with a plan on how to have everything  in the frame (almost everything).  I chose the Yamaha V-Max engine because of it's layout and where the gearbox drive-shaft was positioned.  To keep the un-sprung weight down to a minimum, the wheel hubs wouldn't have a crown gear in them (like most shaft drive motorcycles do), the crown gear housing would be in the frame and the crown & pinion axis perpendicular to the engine. I also went this way because I needed a differential in the loop, because of the different turn radius the front and back wheels have, the differential would also be a 'Posi-Track' limited slip type.  The engine itself, I turned around. One reason was so the driveshaft would be at the front on the engine, second reason was so the exhaust could run straight back and a third reson was so the airbox for the fuel injectors would be place over the gearbox so being infront of the engine and in the cold air.

The frame itself is quite deep, the idea here was it would hold the fuel and also any other storage needed for liquids.  I'd have a part of it as an oil tank which would also act as a cooler.  Th frame would be made from aluminum as would be the sub-frame which holds the seat and the dummy tank (really the airbox housing)

A friend of mine had a Yamaha Venturer which has the same engine as the V-Max (except it's tuned differently)so I spent a couple of days one weekend measuring up the engine.  My brother had a new Suzuki Motocrosser which had a neat suspension idea, which I also had a good look at and made a few measurements of that.  All the suspension on the sidecar is based on this system.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 10:45:34 PM »
While designing the suspension I discovered something which might explain why 'center-hub' steering has not been successful in motorcycle road racing.  In short, it makes the wheel wobble from side to side during it's suspension travel up and down.  If the wheels are dead in-line everything works fine, but as soon as you turn the front wheel left or right, as the wheel goes through it's suspension travel I could not get the geometry to keep the wheel from having an osculation. It's not very much but if a racer was traveling at around 190-200 mph it would be very alarming.

Offline raafif

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 07:38:03 AM »
what's wrong with one-wheel designs ??


Offline Weaver

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 03:50:44 AM »
Nice one Kitnut - The thing that's always struck me with multi-wheel drive designs is that hydraulic motors would be the way to go, i.e. the engine drive a hydraulic pump instead of a gearbox and that supplied pressure to motors in each hub. I know there are issues to solve about heat, but it has been done a number of times, so the issues must be solvable.

I built a bike for a commission at the start of last year, and a couple of things struck me:

1. The bike model aftermarket parts scene is almost non-existent. You can get stuff like cables and pipes that mainly intended for cars, and there are few specific upgrade kits for a few models, but it's nothing liek the aircraft or military vehicle scenes.

2. It's remarkably hard to customise a bike model, partly because the lack of alternative parts (see above) means that you have to butcher another kit to get just about anything, and partly because of the way they're made. When you're "chopping" a real bike, one of the easier jobs is making a longer chain to deal with the fact that you've either increased the engine-to-wheel distance or changed the sprocket sizes. On bike models though, this is very hard, because the chain and sprockets are usually moulded in one piece, and even if you grafted extra bits of chain into the middle, the angle that the chain comes off the sprockets would still be wrong. There are aftermarket "real chain" kits, but they cost the earth and are geared towards specific racing bikes, which means they're usually quite short.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 11:15:35 AM »
kitnut: Thanks for that. Very interesting design exercise on the frame!

Weaver: Have you investigated the weight on the hydraulics drives that you'd need for a bike? Looked into hydraulic pumps for UAVs but concluded that weight usually outweighed (no pun intended!) any benefits. I'd be curious to know if it's different for bikes.
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 12:08:30 PM »
My friend Paul has a Rokon.    Fast it ain't.  Unstoppable it nearly is.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 07:12:11 PM »
What about a modern version of the classic WWII German motorcycle and sidecar recon combo?
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 09:07:57 PM »
What about a modern version of the classic WWII German motorcycle and sidecar recon combo?

Yeah!  :) Motorcycle and sidecar + Milan ATGM launcher and a couple of reloads = lotsa dead Soviet tanks in the Fulda Gap! Maybe even more effective across the North German Plains with the rapidly changing terrain of around a kilometre or two of open field interspersed with strips of forest + lots of small waterways.
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Moritz

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2012, 01:28:01 AM »
That one might even need a small trailer to carry extra missile reloads.

It would be damn tempting to model though!
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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 03:59:57 AM »
Does anyone produce kits of modern offroad motorcycles in 1/35?
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 04:28:14 AM »
Does anyone produce kits of modern offroad motorcycles in 1/35?

DML/Dragon had/has a U.S. Army light infantry figure set that provides one MotoCross bike with rider.
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Offline jcf

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 04:34:42 AM »
Tamiya did a Honda XLR250R in their J.G.S.D.F. Recon kit :
http://www.interlog.com/~khartlen/kits/tamiya/35245/overview.htm

... and Dragon did a Kawasaki KLR250 in kit 3009 'U.S. Light Infantry'.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dragon-1-35-3009-US-Light-Infantry-Worlds-Elite-Force-Series-/140636724179
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Offline jcf

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 05:06:20 AM »
Oh, yeah, the Bandai UC Hardgraph Ramba Ral Commando Set includes a B.M.C. Z78/2:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10051249



http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/B.M.C._Z78/2

 ;)
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Offline kengeorge

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2012, 02:46:29 AM »
Hi Guys,
I had been trawling the Daily Mail website & thought I'd share this, as it started out as a three-wheeler, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156474/Reliant-Robin-owner-fed-Jeremy-Clarkson-declares-war-armed-tank-version-wheeler.html
Made me smile.
Ken...

Offline raafif

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2012, 10:08:11 AM »
Ha ha ! take that Clarkson !

The guy has cheated by removing the roof, windscreen etc, all lowering its center of gravity -- the wide, long track makes it much more stable.  Judging by the sealed doors & that outboard on the back .... it's amphibious too !!

       So it's no longer a Reliant Robin -- as a not-very-happy Robin passenger, I still endorse Clarkson's opinion of the standard vehicle :icon_twisted:

"vehicles with tracks don’t require MOTs" -- bet that changes when he puts this on the road !

Do wonder if this guy will get a production contract from the SAS 8)

Offline raafif

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2012, 12:37:21 PM »
kiwi Hells Angels ....

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2012, 09:07:28 AM »

Thiel

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2012, 06:37:12 PM »
There is of course always the Danish Nimbus with a 20mm AT gun in the side car.

Offline Weaver

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2012, 07:09:31 PM »
There is of course always the Danish Nimbus with a 20mm AT gun in the side car.


Ah, The Mighty Nimbus! (as the Danish owner of another site I go on calls it  ;D)



Note that the headlight glass is broken, either from the muzzle blast or the recoil..... ;D
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Offline Weaver

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2012, 07:15:10 PM »
If you wanted to do a 1/76th version of Frank's excellent Mazda, you could always start from one of these:



Dapol Scammell Scarab

I've got one in the stash, although my thought is to turn it into a 3-ski aerosan.... >:D
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Thiel

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2012, 08:05:40 PM »
How about mounting a single tube CRV7 launcher (they actually make those) on the back of a trike?
Or in a side-car like the 20mm gun on the Nimbus? (Dismount to fire. Can in a pinch be fired while mounted.)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2014, 03:59:53 AM »


 ;D
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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2014, 07:12:28 AM »

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2014, 04:57:05 AM »
Wicked!




More here
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2014, 07:13:11 AM »
I like that  :)

My personal fav' is this one. It's a Honda concept bike which appeared at a Tokyo Motorcycle Show some years ago and called an Evo6

« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 04:32:04 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2019, 02:40:04 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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kerick

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2019, 03:20:06 AM »
It looks awesome but he never did go around a corner in the video. It appears it can only go straight down the street. Still quite a wild concept bike.

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2019, 04:05:29 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2019, 07:42:48 AM »
The OMCG members ain't gunna like 'em, they look Japanese! ;D
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2019, 08:21:58 AM »
Does it come with a massive loudspeak attached for the vroom to be heard for miles around?

I hate Harley-Davidson motorbikes. I lived for three years opposite some drug dealers in Canberra and they were visited at all hours of the day and night by Harley riding customers.   >:D

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2019, 02:45:25 AM »
It might actually be a smart move.  How many of the HD buyers these days are those wanting to feel like a rebel...though still want to do the right thing.  I'm thinking the Wild Hogs style here. ;)
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Offline jcf

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2019, 03:56:19 AM »
Harley-Davidson is America's biggest cosplay supplier.  ;D ;D :icon_fsm:
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2019, 06:26:29 AM »
CosPlay plus LARP (Live Action Role-Playing)
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2019, 05:08:25 PM »
Something that caught my eye, simple, a little retro and real world for an affordable price.

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2019, 02:40:04 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2019, 04:57:44 AM »
Beats NASCAR and MX for the fun factor :smiley:
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2019, 06:28:57 AM »
Well, whaddayaknow.... Mad Max was a documentary! :o
Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2019, 02:02:28 AM »
1936 BMW R12 (Schneekrad):



All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Story

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2020, 11:25:15 PM »
The 2029 Majestic

Taking cues from the classic French 1929 Majestic, the custom ride features a fully enclosed sculptured aluminum body, hub-centric steering and sleek lines like its hundred-year-old predecessor. But that’s where the similarities end. Penned by Bryan Fuller, the futuristic riff features 3D-printed titanium parts, transparent polycarbonate wheels—unlike the original, they have no spokes—and is fitted with an electric engine.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/insane-electric-motorcycle-made-using-220002826.html

I had to look up the original Majestic https://www.bikeexif.com/majestic-motorcycle

Looks like something one of those Art Deco Superheroes would have rode.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 12:21:44 AM by Story »

Offline GTX_Admin

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All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2020, 06:20:56 AM »
 :icon_surprised: ;D ;D ;D 8)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2020, 08:32:59 AM »
Wow!

https://thekneeslider.com/radial-engine-powered-motorcycle/

Lots of work to reverse the drive shaft direction. Possibly a daft question but ... why couldn't the whole engine simply be turned back-to-front?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2020, 09:18:58 AM »
Lots of work to reverse the drive shaft direction. Possibly a daft question but ... why couldn't the whole engine simply be turned back-to-front?
I'm not certain, but I suspect the configuration of the cooling fins may make this the better direction

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2020, 10:18:17 AM »
Lots of work to reverse the drive shaft direction. Possibly a daft question but ... why couldn't the whole engine simply be turned back-to-front?
I'm not certain, but I suspect the configuration of the cooling fins may make this the better direction
Plus fuel pump, oil pump, CSD/magnetos, etc., are hanging off the back of the engine. Look silly if they were poking forward. ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: 2X and 3X Wheeled Vehicles (Motorcycles and Motor-Tricycles)
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2020, 10:21:31 PM »
Couple of other pics

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding