Author Topic: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)  (Read 6317 times)

Offline raafif

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Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« on: February 15, 2012, 05:31:38 PM »
In 1940 Germany had air-superiority over the Channel -- what if they had run large convoys from Keil to Africa instead of via Italy ?  What woudld they use for escorts ? ...

       Rail-launched Komet / Natter / Salamander Cam-ships for protection against Sunderlands, Libs, Catalinas etc ??

     What would they use against British subs ?  Anything innovative ?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 06:01:03 PM »
Rockets /jets might be a tad early in 1940.  Maybe a CAM style Bf-109E?
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 05:02:59 PM »
Actually, thinking about it a it more, you could have the rocket interceptors as a uniquely German CAM.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:06:34 PM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 09:39:31 AM »
Have an unassembled Revell Flower class Corvette (1/72).  Be fun to build as modernized for 2012 service.  Radars, at least one modern rapid fire 3in gun turret.  Of course some smaller guns onboard like MK38 mod2 25mm and maciine guns (bad day for Somali priates).  Harpoon missile battery, light weight torpedo launcher?     what ever else......

Also there is the Glencoe 1/74 110ft subchaser to do similar only less with.

All so fun - need the time and skill.
Bill

Offline apophenia

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 11:59:17 AM »
That's an interesting notion. I took a crude stab at the idea -- plonking shortened bits of the French Avisos type A69 (so 100mm in place of 76mm gun) on top of the Flower class hull. I didn't change the later other than raking the bow and covering the portholes.

BTW: the Flower class hull was taken from a Bob Pearson profile of K157 (HMCS Dauphin).
http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/naval/Flower_Class-Corvettes.htm
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 01:47:41 PM »
Hey - Thanks I appreciate that not crude profile to me.  When do build it, do want to modernize to at least mid 60s standard.  Bringing it to 2012 is better.  By now Corvette is out of the depth charge business so that frees up room.  Am not in tune with latest Navy stuff like French Avisos type A69 but sure looks/sounds right.  Whole profile is looking good.  What would you or other Navy guys here fit where on the Corvette?  Please continue.
Bill

Offline tigercat

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2012, 04:38:28 PM »
http://warshipsresearch.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/german-falke-bussard-class-so-called.html

They already had catapault shipss so maybe something inspired by them

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/minehunter/sperrbrecher/index.htm

They also must have had merchant shipping to spare as they felt they could use 100 odd ships as basically  as mine destructor ships.

It doesn't seem an efficent way of clearing a minefield

Talking about the Flower Class I did see a Flower Class CAM ship in a Ship modelling magazine can't remember which one.

They had the launch ramp on the diagonal to fit it all in.


The Germans had the Wasserfall anti aircraft missile if it had made it into development and been produced a little earlier you might have seen the first AntiAircraft Missile Escort 

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 03:31:35 AM »
http://warshipsresearch.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/german-falke-bussard-class-so-called.html

They already had catapault shipss so maybe something inspired by them

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/minehunter/sperrbrecher/index.htm



I must admit that I did not know about these ships until you mentioned them.  Upon doing a little more research, I found that they also had the similar "Friesenland".

Here are some photos of all three:




Maybe fit a Bf-109T to the corvette etc as a CAM style escort.  Or cross a Bf-109T with an Ar-196B (see below) to get a recoverable option:

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Offline tigercat

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 04:38:23 PM »
http://www.steelnavy.com/1250DLHships.htm

Here's a few models of the various catapult ships.

That would be an interesting combination especially as the Germans captured 4 or 6 flower class intended for the French Navy

Offline dy031101

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 11:16:02 PM »
Well when you said convoys and then catapult ships, I will inevitably arrive at merchant aircraft carriers.  ;)

But let's not stop at WWII era.  How would a modern-day MAC look like?

Would it still be spartan-looking like their WWII predecessors, or would modern ship-building techniques allow more-modern-carrier-like appearance (at least the converted parts; if the cargo and its handling space cannot be interfered with, then they cannot be interfered with)?  Would the basis-ship chosen for conversion actually be larger?  Would the conversion still be limited to bulk grain ships and oilers, or would modern cargo-handling equipment allows for an even-wider variety of choices?

(Yes, I recognise the existence of SCADS package, but MACs are meant to retain most of a converted ship's cargo capacity.)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 11:29:16 PM by dy031101 »
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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 01:47:22 AM »
Modern MAC could = Harrier/F-35B or Helicopter or simply SAM system
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 07:12:54 AM »
Modern MAC could = Harrier/F-35B or Helicopter or simply SAM system

That's right, but the aircraft still need some kind of support facility, however simple it might be?

As for SAMs...... I suppose CEC equipment will take care of it.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline beowulf

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 06:14:01 AM »


       Rail-launched Komet / Natter / Salamander Cam-ships for protection against Sunderlands, Libs, Catalinas etc ??

     



might i suggest this that i did a few years ago at the other place when someone mentioned CAM ships set my mind in motion  ;D


I have come up with a plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel!

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 03:15:36 PM »
Love what you did there. :)
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Offline Geoff

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2012, 08:37:00 PM »
Helicopter launced deapthcharges (small ones like the Swedes used to force subs up to the sevice) so they can be finished by gunfire from the escorts.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2012, 11:23:15 PM »
They also must have had merchant shipping to spare as they felt they could use 100 odd ships as basically  as mine destructor ships.

It doesn't seem an efficent way of clearing a minefield

Could a ship become so run down that it can be good for no other purposes?

During early stages of their war against Japan, China also scuttled a number of their protected cruisers as block ships on the Yangtze River.  And they pack heavy guns (8") compared to ROCN's other (albeit more-modern) cruisers.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline dy031101

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Military Cargo Ships
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 11:44:52 PM »
I've been thinking of an AOR lengthened so as to expand its cargo area to a point where SCADS can be carried.

Now here is the question: military cargo ships seem to mostly have their own cranes, which I would guess is so that they can load and unload their containers on their own?  Would those cranes be sufficiently easy to remove when equipping the SCADS and to be reinstalled after the SCADS is taken off the ship?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 01:44:42 AM »
Rockets /jets might be a tad early in 1940.  Maybe a CAM style Bf-109E?


 A little late to this party, I know, but Von Braun proposed a VL rocket interceptor in 1939...

 http://www.luft46.com/misc/vbi.html

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 03:35:16 AM »
True.  Though given that the Germans were quite satisfied with the Bf-109 in 1940, they would probably have kept with it for simplicity sake.

That said, don't let me stop any ideas...I might even have something in the works right now... ;)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 06:54:47 AM »
Container ship version of NS Savannah with SCADS?  Just a thought.

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2013, 07:09:00 AM »
NS Savannah you say?!

Enjoy her official plans from 1967  8)
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/savannah.pdf
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2013, 07:19:05 AM »
Container ship version of NS Savannah with SCADS?  Just a thought.

Would I still have this crane problem to worry about?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2013, 08:40:47 AM »
I wonder if AWG-9 and a couple of Phoenix could be worked into a Seaking or even a Seahawk?  Maybe even install the AWD -9 in a setup similar to the Seaking AEW.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Military Cargo Ships
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 11:57:31 AM »
To illustrate what I'm doing so far, see attachment......

Due to the SCADS, leaving the crane(s) in the forward cargo area along the ship's centreline is not an option; so would it be better that I pass them off as easily removable or move them to the sides?

Is there anything else I should pay attention to, too?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 01:53:11 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2013, 03:28:18 AM »
I wonder if AWG-9 and a couple of Phoenix could be worked into a Seaking or even a Seahawk?  Maybe even install the AWD -9 in a setup similar to the Seaking AEW.

Oooo...interesting.  I like your thinking.  Maybe have the radar mounted like you suggest and a Phoenix on each side of the fuselage.  You might want some sort of booster to get best performance out of the missiles though (a SeaKing is a tad slower than a Tomcat...).
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2013, 11:27:57 AM »
An airborne AWG-9 illuminating for, and handing off targeting data to, a boosted Phoenix fired from a box launcher on the ship?

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2013, 06:44:02 AM »
I wonder if AWG-9 and a couple of Phoenix could be worked into a Seaking or even a Seahawk?  Maybe even install the AWD -9 in a setup similar to the Seaking AEW.
I know the USN's Kamon SH-2 Seasprite was eveluated with Aim-7 Sparrow AAM's! If I can only find the pics??
This would be much lighter, simpler and cheaper to implement than a AWG-9/Aim-54 arranagement!

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Re: Corvettes & other Convoy ships (incl. freighters)
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2013, 06:47:32 AM »
You were saying?

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