Author Topic: F-23A photo recon version  (Read 5130 times)

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
F-23A photo recon version
« on: February 09, 2019, 07:29:03 AM »
As I've mentioned before I'm going to attempt an F-23 recon build. I have the required kit thanks to the Big Gimper so now I no longer have any excuses. I found an interesting article on the changes that would have been made to make an F-23 production aircraft.

 http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/24911/this-is-what-a-northrop-f-23a-wouldve-looked-like-if-lockheed-lost-the-atf-competition

I'll make the changes I can without hacking up the whole kit. Inlet shape is very different but that will be easy. I was going to lengthen the fuselage anyway so that's no problem. Changes to the rear fuselage will be much more difficult and would require almost a total scratch build in that area so not likely. At least this makes inaccuracy problems with the kit irrelevant. Biggest problem right now is the paint scheme. All black like an SR-71 or shades of grey? What if I custom mix some grey with a touch of blue? What do you think?
Wish me luck!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 01:01:24 PM »
Here is the starting pic.



Actually there is some good detail on this kit. The landing gear and ejection seat look pretty good on the sprues. The fuselage looks good overall but the inlets and exhaust need work. The inlets will get changed drastically anyway. There is a weapons bay that's not too bad but it will probably get closed up. I'll be cutting through the middle of that so it will be lost anyway. Maybe tomorrow I will stop planning and start building.

I'm going for high altitude work. Sort of an SR-71 replacement. The YF-23 had higher altitude, higher speed and better stealth than the F-22 so I thought that would make it a good candidate.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2019, 02:00:03 PM »
Definitely a recon bird on beyond the RP-26.

Offline Some Duck with an Ultimax

  • Now known as "Ducky"
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 05:35:52 AM »
Sounds like a cool idea - Iíd go with SR-71 black for the scheme, it just looks badass - and reminds me of the black ship with the black controls on the black dashboard in the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.
Never trust a man who tells you that you have too many paints, for he is obviously a liar and will most likely try to deceive you again in future.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2019, 11:10:36 AM »
I managed to get in some good modeling time today. I've been working on the engine exhausts first. I'm sticking with the prototype exhausts but improving the kit parts. Its goofy how some parts on this kit look really nice with great detail such as the seat and wheels while the exhaust fits terribly. Here's the pics.





These are the areas I had to close up to avoid gaping holes looking into the fuselage.



I cut the fuselage just ahead of the wing. No turning back now!



This would be a one inch extension.



Here is a one and half inch extension. Go big or go home they say so its the one and half inch version.



The weapons bay makes a handy place to frame up the extension. A heavy piece of plastic that won't bend cut the same width as the bay allows me to line up the front and aft sections. The weapons bay will be closed in the final product anyway.



Boxing it in makes it more rigid and gives something for a new skin to attach to. I'll glue the sections together later. Its easier to work on different areas this way. More pics to follow.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2019, 11:16:29 AM »
Sooo cooool   8)

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2019, 11:21:28 AM »
Thanks!

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2019, 11:25:16 AM »
Looking real good, there.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2019, 01:44:16 PM »
Thanks for the nice comments!

Here's the latest pic of the exhaust.



There is two pieces to the upper part of the exhaust outlet. In the kit they are molded as part of the fuselage. The bottom piece should be separate and is movable on the real thing. So I cut away the molded on part and carved replacements. Looks much better to me. It's amazing how "loose" these parts of the exhaust are on the real aircraft. Maybe to allow for expansion when things get hot. Plus I'm sure they don't want parts with stealth coatings rubbing and scratching each other. The exhaust outlet appears to be covered with heat resistant tiles. I need some graph paper type decals to accurately replicate that.
I've started on the inlets. Shouldn't be too much trouble if I can find some 3/4 inch tubing I can cut in half. I have some PVC pipe the right size but the walls are very thick. Plus gluing could be a problem. Maybe I'll just wrap some sheet plastic around it and soften it with a hair dryer. Probably a half day at work tomorrow so maybe I'll get some more done on it.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 08:26:33 PM »
Much impressed with your fuselage extension efforts to add in what amounts to a total of 9.0' (2.74 m) to the length of the aircraft.  A shame you are not going to open up the weapons bay to show it off.
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline LemonJello

  • MARPAT Master
  • Member number 100...WooHoo!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2019, 10:47:29 PM »
Impressive surgery going on here.  Taking notes for future projects.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2019, 01:36:00 AM »
I plan on adding a recon pallet to the underside that will cover the weapons bay. Cameras plus maybe SLAR or some such ELINT type devices. At least that will be my story.

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hulk smash, Brian bash
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2019, 04:51:46 AM »
This looks like a very brave build and not only am I impressed with the concept, but also that fine looking cut!

If I rolled dice like this, I'm sure I'd be looking for some kind of small scale airliner nose to fit on there.

But you've got the Superior Styrene Surgeon's touch, kerick.

Your badge & certificate are "in the mail".

 ;)

Watching with interest,

Brian da Basher

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2019, 06:39:30 AM »
Thanks for the compliments!
I changed my mind on the SLAR. No good going around in a stealth aircraft and radiating energy to advertise your position. Maybe some other spooky electronic gizmos.
Iíll have to print some decals to mimic the different colors of materials around the edges of openings and what appears to be antennas and such. Can I draw that sort of thing in MS paint or some other easy program? I donít have access to the fancy stuff.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 07:43:46 AM by kerick »

Offline ed s

  • An outstanding, creative builder.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2019, 08:04:44 AM »
Looking good. This is such a neat looking bird.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2019, 02:11:03 PM »
SLAR on an LO bird is not impossible.  TACIT BLUE showed that it could be done as it was a testbed for the Assault Breaker radar system that later developed into JSTARS.  I also know of some LO recce drone concepts that carried both emitting and passive sensor systems.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2019, 08:22:30 PM »
Just a leetle stretch! :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2019, 11:25:04 PM »
SLAR on an LO bird is not impossible.  TACIT BLUE showed that it could be done as it was a testbed for the Assault Breaker radar system that later developed into JSTARS.  I also know of some LO recce drone concepts that carried both emitting and passive sensor systems.
Plus, of course, there are radars that can know a LO aircraft is out there, but can't target it. In an environment where they know you're there, just not exactly where, you can radiate in small doses and on frequencies that they might not be monitoring and still stay hidden. After all, the new LINK 16 communication system radiates constantly but all over the spectrum such that you can't get a fix on it.

But, certainly, planning on doing primarily passive optical recce and SIGINT is a very good plan.

Programs like MS Paint and the like can produce perfectly adequate graphics for decals, as long as you're willing to put in the occasionally excruciatingly frustrating time to do anything moderately complex in some of those programs.

May I suggest "Paint.net" as a free bitmap graphics and photo editing program? Easy to use, but has some advanced features such as layers and some filter techniques that make it pretty powerful for day-to-day editing and creation functions. For simple graphic shapes and the like, it a good choice.

Paul

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2019, 02:29:50 AM »
Looks like Iím behind the times on my knowledge of radars and such. Iíve read where the F-35 has some electronic recon capabilities built into each aircraft.
Thanks for all the info. Iíll try the paint.net and study up on elint

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2019, 03:45:39 AM »
AESA radar on F-35 has some interesting potentials for ELINT.  Too, the DAS system has demonstrated some good visual recce abilities in addition to what the sensors for the EOTS can pick up.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2019, 10:00:19 AM »
It appears more and more that there is a lot more to the F-35 than the usual fighter plane stuff. Not trying to start a whole discussion on it but it seems thatís another topic to read up on. BTW thanks for all the input.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2019, 02:56:43 AM »
It appears more and more that there is a lot more to the F-35 than the usual fighter plane stuff.

Indeed, that is the case.  I've used the analogy before that comparing the F-35 to other, older platforms on traditional features such as speed, turning ability etc is a bit like comparing a '80s era walkman to a modern iPhone.  Sure, they can both play music but the iPhone also allows you to make calls, surf the web, watch movies, do all sorts of things with various apps whereas the walkman just plays music.  Most, if not all of the F-35's capabilities are less obvious.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2019, 02:49:59 PM »
I said the inlets would be easy....I lied. I'll try some more tomorrow, this time with beer.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2019, 08:35:52 AM »
Some progress at last! Once I found a piece of plastic to cut the new inlets out of things got easier. I rummaged around in the two drawers of found objects I have until I came across this cap for some old spray bottle. Tough part was judging the shape of the teeth on the edge of the inlet. Once I made one I had to make another mirror image of the first. The plastic was brittle so I had to be careful. Lots of file work.



Then I cut out the old inlets.



And boxed in the new openings.



Hopefully I can glue them in place and start the putty work tonight.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2019, 01:13:57 AM »
Looking good.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2019, 02:05:05 PM »
Some more progress! Let the PSR begin in full force!


Offline andonio64

  • Fio Piccolo's understudy
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2019, 01:56:57 AM »
Hmmmm really interesting, Kerick...

Antonio

Offline Robomog

  • Would you buy a used kit from this man?
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2019, 09:53:07 AM »
Nice use of found objects on the inlets and expertly shaped looking forward to the end result

Mog
>^-.-^<
Mostly Harmless...............

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2019, 12:23:07 PM »
I sanded down the Bondo Putty and added a layer of Perfect Plastic Putty to fill minor imperfections. Not much to show for now, just lots of dust. For the fuselage section I'm going to try covering as much as possible with sheet plastic to cut down on PSR. I'm considering cutting out the flaps, ailerons and slats and re-positioning them. I've found some pics of YF-23s on the ground with these surfaces dropped.
Thanks for the encouraging comments!

Offline Aeroplanedriver

  • Newly Joined - Welcome me!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2019, 12:39:34 PM »
This is coming along great!   Loved the F-23 and can't wait to see this one done. 

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2019, 09:30:55 AM »
More cutting and more PSR!





Glued the two halves together and cut out the control surfaces. The joint between the surfaces and the wing looks really tight in pics I've seen. No hinges or spaces to be seen. Makes sense in a stealth aircraft. It will make my job easier cleaning it up and gluing them back on.

A little putty where I cut too far.





Exhaust is painted a metallic black for now. I'm going to try making some decals to make the surfaces look like this.....

yf-23_13_of_51

Also on the decal sheet will be different color shapes to represent different antenna etc.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2019, 01:50:53 PM »
A little more progress.



Planking the gap.



Back to looking like an aircraft again!

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2019, 04:17:34 PM »
Yes,,, this is great.  Top notch concept (per my way of concepts) coming together.
Fine work.  Awaiting more progress pictures.
Black world has/had F-23 variant.  Oops - nuff said on that.

Offline andonio64

  • Fio Piccolo's understudy
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2019, 05:23:05 PM »
Wow, it's getting more and more interesting!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2019, 12:05:44 AM »
Going to work on closing up the underside today. It's mostly flat so less planking involved. I'm thinking of changing the story to it being a CIA asset. I read an article on the SR-71 that made the point that if the SR-71 was CIA funded it would have flown for a much longer time. So this will be the replacement but under CIA control. I'll have to look over my decal options again.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2019, 11:59:37 AM »
Not sure if the tiles are related to the ones on the shuttle but they could be.

Got the underside planked.



More putty today.





Putty palozza! I'm giving it lots of time to dry before sanding. Working on the control surfaces in the mean time.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2019, 01:30:05 PM »
Appreciate progress pictures.  :smiley:

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2019, 04:27:41 PM »
 :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2019, 12:35:14 PM »
Part 1 of putty palooza has been sanded down. Part 2 has been applied. I've been using plain old nail files/ermory boards to shape the putty and plastic. Course to cut through all the material and with a flat backing to make sure I don't cut away the putty and leave plastic high spots. I clean it up with 400 grit and will go over the whole thing with 600 before I paint. I have to watch out in areas where I applied a lot of glue as it seems to be affecting the putty. I've noticed a couple of cracks in the putty even after it was dried and sanded down. There could be traces of vapor finding its way out yet.





I had to add some plastic to build out the chines. I should have done that in the first place but oh well.



I've test fitted the stabilizers and the fit is terrible. Very little effort was made to provide a strong anchor for the pieces. I'll have to do a lot of sanding and fitting to get a tight fit as the butt joint will be the only thing holding them. I see these breaking off repeatedly in the future. Plus trying to get the angle right. Might be time to build a lego jig.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2019, 02:07:42 AM »
FWIW, the Italieri/Testors/Revell/Tamiya YF-23 is definitely the best 1/72 YF-23 kit out there (I have samples of all and have compared them with a Northrop 1/72 display model that was sold by their company store 'back in the day").  Still needs, as you point out, work, though.

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hulk smash, Brian bash
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2019, 04:52:18 AM »
That's some top-shelf styrene surgery there!

The rare times I get mods looking that clean it makes me almost want to dance.

Looks sharp and smooth as silk!

Brian da Basher

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2019, 05:47:25 AM »
That's some top-shelf styrene surgery there!

Gotta agreed with the 'Basher there! Impressive work on an excellent concept :smiley:
"And loot some for the old folks, Can't loot for themselves"

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2019, 08:14:33 AM »
Not sure if the tiles are related to the ones on the shuttle but they could be.
They're not. Both are ceramic based, but that's as far as it goes. The solid ceramic aircraft tiles are far more durable than the foamed ceramic from the Shuttle.
Quote
I have to watch out in areas where I applied a lot of glue as it seems to be affecting the putty. I've noticed a couple of cracks in the putty even after it was dried and sanded down. There could be traces of vapor finding its way out yet.
The small cracks are a result of the residual amounts of solvent in the putty continuing to dry even after it appears nice and solid causing the putty to shrink and then crack. For places where the spot and glaze type putty is more than a .020-.030" thick, this will continue to happen for quite a while. Weeks. Months, in some cases. The only real way to avoid it is to apply in very thin layers (like .010" per layer) and let dry for week or so between layers after sanding.

For this reason, for any areas where I am doing any real shape changes, like you are doing here, I use 2 part epoxy putty, like Miliput or Aves (prefer Aves). These do not dry, but cure. There is no releasing of solvent so no shrinking. They have their own issues, but shrinking and cracking isn't one of them.

Paul

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2019, 10:21:49 AM »
You are quite right. I have to practice getting Aves in a thin layer. I know it involves wetting the tools with water, just have to use it a few times.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2019, 05:47:18 AM »
Round two of putty palooza has been sanded down. I'm waiting to apply round three to allow more solvent to escape. Plus RW stuff to attend to anyway. The chines are giving me trouble but I'll get them in shape soon.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2019, 06:02:31 AM »
I tend to use more styrene than putty when I do my projects. I've learnt that pre-bending styrene with a heat gun to the approximate size/bend (usually a little bigger) I can sand it down to what I want. Any little defects I find afterwards then gets a swipe of putty but is usually very minimal..

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hulk smash, Brian bash
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2019, 09:07:11 PM »
I tend to use more styrene than putty when I do my projects. I've learnt that pre-bending styrene with a heat gun to the approximate size/bend (usually a little bigger) I can sand it down to what I want. Any little defects I find afterwards then gets a swipe of putty but is usually very minimal..

Sure beat my "light a candle and curse the (stretched) sprue" method.

Thanks for sharing those tips, Robert!

Brian da Basher

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2019, 07:59:42 AM »
I got back from vacation in Bahamas and Disney World. Had to go and give a bunch of my money to the mouse! Actually my wife and best friend conspired to force me to celebrate my 60th birthday. Magnificent time but still recovering from the sunburn.
So I finally sanded down the last layer of putty. Came out pretty good so I brushed on some paint as primer. A couple of spots showed up but nothing I can't deal with. Not much to take pics of right now but it looks like I better figure out a paint scheme real quick.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2019, 12:51:36 PM »
I hand painted on some grey as a primer and puttied a couple of small spots. Real life is pretty busy these days so progress has been slow. Now that the weather is warming up I might be able to bring out the airbrush in the garage and do some decent painting.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2019, 10:55:41 PM »
Real life is pretty busy these days so progress has been slow.

Happens every time you get back from vacation   ;D ;D ;D

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2019, 12:10:09 AM »
So true! My son is getting married soon so lots of distraction going on there also!
I also have projects lined up in my brain and I keep thinking of new ones!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2019, 08:45:19 AM »
I still want to build the sensor port under the lengthened part of the fuselage. I'm going to take a hint from the F-35 EOTS port under the nose.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 08:50:09 AM by kerick »

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2019, 08:50:46 AM »
So much of heavy work is done, am sure you will finish it well in due time.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2019, 09:00:51 AM »
Thanks!!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2019, 12:37:37 PM »
The last stage of PSR is complete!!!  :thumbsup:
I attached the control surfaces back to their original places but in a lowered position. The white plastic is material I added to bring them into a shape that fit properly in a lowered position.







Now I have to build the sensor windows like the F-35 EOTS, just bigger.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2019, 12:30:08 PM »
Why bigger?  The F-35 EOTS is plenty powerful as is and should suffice.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2019, 02:18:37 AM »
I've been working on the sensor windows lately. Started with some large plastic sequins.



I glued several layers of plastic together and cut some angled surfaces. I CA glued sequins to the surfaces and trimmed to fit. I had to replace the sequin parts a couple of time until I got it right.  :banghead:





I think it sits too high right now. I'll try to sand it down so it's less high than wide. It's just sitting in place right now until painting is done. At least I got the surfaces presentable as I ran out of usable CA glue. I know its bigger than the F-35 EOTS but I'm saying this is an earlier version that's a little more bulky.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2019, 03:42:01 AM »
@Kerick - yeah, have to agree with your observations on the height of the sensor windows.  Height aside, it definitely looks great.  Also an excellent work-around to resolving a problem.   
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2019, 03:49:05 AM »
I wouldnít bother referencing EOTS at all.  Just call this part of the dedicated sensor package.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2019, 04:08:33 AM »
IMHO is a bit big all over kerick, at least from what I've seen up close


Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2019, 06:33:19 AM »
I agree, not just height but length and width, too, seem a bit much.  OTOH, it could have a larger sensor head than EOTS has and that would explain a lot.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2019, 06:36:58 AM »
Yeah I wasnít going for a straight F-35 copy but something along that line but 10 plus years prior. Either with more sensors or bulkier technology. Or both.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2019, 06:44:23 AM »
Yeah I wasnít going for a straight F-35 copy but something along that line but 10 plus years prior. Either with more sensors or bulkier technology. Or both.
Given the size of the guts of EOTS, that's probably a realistic outlook.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2019, 07:24:51 AM »
Kudos for novel repurpose of sequins.  Is perfecto  :smiley:

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2019, 10:07:32 AM »
The red, green and blue ones work great for the optics in modern armored vehicles.

Offline taiidantomcat

  • Plastic Origamist...and not too shabby with the painting either!
  • Global Moderator
  • Stylishly late...because he was reading comics
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2019, 11:47:32 AM »
Yeah I wasnít going for a straight F-35 copy but something along that line but 10 plus years prior. Either with more sensors or bulkier technology. Or both.

I like it!
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: RF-23A photo recon version
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2019, 01:06:21 PM »
Thanks for the kind comments!!
I built a new version of the EOTS sensor windows. Looks much better to me. A lot sleeker yet still bigger than the F-35. Since this would be an earlier version I'm ok with that.



New version compared to the old version.



Now I have to fit the tail fins.  ::)

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2019, 01:22:35 PM »
I like the new version, it quite fits an earlier iteration of the EOTS package (what you don't see on the F-35 is just how much interior space the EOTS unit takes up, along with power and coolant lines).

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2019, 09:20:49 PM »
Yeah, definitely the new one  :smiley:

Interestingly, in your post all I can see is a white square with a 'no entry' symbol in it. However clicking on it takes me to your flickr page and I can see the pic.

Edit, and now I can see the pics in your post -----   :-\

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2019, 10:48:23 PM »
 :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2019, 11:33:55 PM »
I wish I could find my red, blue and green sequins. It would be more colorful!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2019, 01:40:01 AM »
Regarding the size of your sensor windows, it can also be explained away by the fact that the sensors hidden away behind the shiny windows are larger, or more enhanced for performance of the reconnaissance and surveillance mission of the RF-23.  The sensor suite on your aircraft could also include other bits requiring a transparent [to signals, etc.] window for the sensitive sensor heads that hide behind the sensor windows.  There might also be a requirement for imaging things in duplicate to create stereoscopic images for the purpose of creating 3D images or map constructs for development of target folders and other products for future operations or contingencies. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2019, 04:02:44 AM »
Your sleeker, second-generation EOTS is great ... and looks much less like the RW F-35 version.

... There might also be a requirement for imaging things in duplicate to create stereoscopic images for the purpose of creating 3D images or map constructs for development of target folders and other products for future operations or contingencies.

Cool idea Jeffry. That could also be a later, upgrade move. Earlier, larger sensors - dictating original sensor window size - replaced by smaller, duplicated sensors. And, I note, that LM's Advanced EOTS fits within the F-35's original windows  ;)
"And loot some for the old folks, Can't loot for themselves"

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2019, 06:37:31 AM »
Thanks Stephen,

My first encounter with gee-whiz stuff such as what I described was a briefing given at Fort Bragg, NC back in 1987-1988 while I was still working the intelligence business.  Some staff officers were down to visit from the Beltway Bandits (aka DoD/Washington D.C.) to give us an overview of what was to come in the future.  Things such as computer enhanced maps with details added in using 3D CAD models all fused with digital terrain elevation data to create "virtual terrain" on a computer monitor.  All of it was really neat but way out of my pay grade or income bracket.  Flash forward a few years and what was shown to me during that briefing was or is pretty much common fare in all computer games now.  The other encounter was during a TDY assignment to that very same bunch of Beltway Bandits and the Christians in Action located in the Washington Navy Yard, in a place that has since moved to a new facility but at the time was the "holy grail" assignment location for plebes such as myself and to go there was a real treat.  I had a chance encounter with a former army officer I had worked with in Germany that was now employed as a civilian contractor in one of those same CIA shops at this place in the Washington Navy Yard.  I was given a quick run down on what they were doing with imagery products.  Essentially it was taking the imagery, crunching it in to data that could be further crunched by the computers and the resulting product could then be used to make street views of places that were under observation.  Some of this was to support contingency plans for rescue of embassy personnel or for other more dangerous things such counter-terrorism.  The image products that were created by these folks were incredible back in 1987-1988 but pale in comparison to what we now consider to be normal screen presentations in most of your FPS video games.  Prior to this, most of the street views were done by having some guy with a camera take images of each location (a real hazard in some places) so having the ability to create a "street view" of a location of interest was definitely a real step forward on the ladder of progress.  We take a lot of this for granted now but before my encounter with this technology back in 87-88, laptop computers and tablets were still pretty much out of our reach financially and technologically. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Online The Big Gimper

  • Any model will look better in RCAF, SEAC or FAA markings
  • Global Moderator
  • Cut. Cut. Cut. Measure. Cut. Cut. Crap. Toss.
    • Photobucket Modeling Album
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2019, 07:00:24 AM »
A historical side note on 1988 laptops.

I purchased these two models for our air worthiness engineers at Transport Canada in 1988. Along with small dot matrix printer so they could print out certificates while on the road.

Toshiba T1200. Horrible little beasty.
MS-DOS 3.3 cpu Intel 80C86 speed 4.77 MHz. Ram 1 KB. Disk 2◊3.5″ 720 KB. Harddrive 20 MB. Graphic LCD 640◊200



Toshiba T3100. Much better.
MS Dos 3.3. Intel cpu 80286 speed 8 MHz. Ram 640 KB graphic 9,6″ monochrome orange gas plasma. CGA 640◊400. Harddisk 20 MB. Disk 3.5″ 720 KB







Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2019, 07:47:03 AM »
Museum pieces today!

Thanks Jeff. I like your explanation.


Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2019, 10:05:49 AM »
I didn't even buy my first computer until 4 years after these - a System 7 Apple Mackintosh Classic ..... I still have it! ;)

Similar to this (image IS a museum piece!):

"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2019, 12:25:12 PM »
But does it still work?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2019, 01:02:24 PM »
I should also add that the unit I was assigned to at the time when I was stationed at Fort Bragg, NC was able to acquire for the intelligence analysts (not my section) a quantity of Grid Compass laptop computers.  Being that these were to be used in a secure area (aka SCIF) and would contain classified data bases, the requirement was for each of these to have a perishable memory that was deleted when the machine powered off.  On powering up the machines, the operating system would have to be loaded via 3.5"/90mm floppy diskettes.  For what they were using the things for in the section that had them it was tedious and cumbersome.  I do remember seeing an example of a Grid Compass laptop on display at the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. at the Air and Space Museum.  It was part of the display for the Space Shuttle and it was not much different from the Grid units we had in my unit.  Images of this now "antique" can be seen via this link: Grid Laptop Computers.  I should also add that at the time these things were not cheap, running somewhere around $20K per unit not including the accessories.  Also they were Tempest emission secured so you were okay to use them without worry about being monitored.  My own section was less fortunate, being the imagery analysts, we were tasked with imagery related things and our first computer showed up in very large green plastic boxes that would have made the folks at Pelican Products jealous.  Opened at both top and bottom or front and back depending on orientation of the contents.  We had what on the outside would have been an Apple computer not sure which model but it was rather limited.  We also had some very clunky looking keyboards, a laser disk reader for the very old 11.0"/28cm laser disks that contained digital terrain elevation data.  Apparently the computer had been originally designed for use by the Army Engineers (combat engineers or civil engineers not sure which) and one of the programs included with this Army Apple allowed you to calculate how many pounds of explosive would be required to address obstacles such as reinforced concrete or structural steel.  Pretty neat and a lot of fun to use but at the end of the day it was still just an apple in a bunch of green boxes with serious limitations.  The one thing that we could actually do with this pig of a rig was create terrain elevation models that could then be printed out on a dot-matrix printer.  Very limited capability but it was better than nothing.  For the part of the world we were focused on, it was useful tool that could be used to create views of the terrain at eye level looking towards the target or from the target looking towards the observation point.  As primitive as that was, it pales in comparison to what we have now at our disposal. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2019, 01:04:16 PM »
Now if there were a way to incorporate some decent wing pylons capable of carrying large fuel such as those found on the F-15 and F-22...
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2019, 01:39:34 PM »
Now if there were a way to incorporate some decent wing pylons capable of carrying large fuel such as those found on the F-15 and F-22...
I'd reckon F-22 pylons and tanks would not be too inappropriate here, though I would suspect they would be used first and dropped before going into territory where maximum LO was required.  Alternative would perhaps be meeting up with a KB-2A (they only made 21 B-2A's, that doesn't mean other variants might not be out there in the "Black World").

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2019, 12:49:54 AM »
But does it still work?

Yes, only the mouse is a bit too dodgy for the set-up to be actually usable.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2019, 08:25:52 AM »
Now if there were a way to incorporate some decent wing pylons capable of carrying large fuel such as those found on the F-15 and F-22...
I'd reckon F-22 pylons and tanks would not be too inappropriate here, though I would suspect they would be used first and dropped before going into territory where maximum LO was required.  Alternative would perhaps be meeting up with a KB-2A (they only made 21 B-2A's, that doesn't mean other variants might not be out there in the "Black World").

B-2A with removable refueling rig in the bomb bay? Hmmmm......
Iíll look into the pylon and tank idea. Thanks!

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2019, 10:22:21 AM »
Actually, a B-2A with the additional long-range tank in the starboard "cargo bay" (heh, that's how they are labeled on the drawings), as is an option, and either an LO drogue system in the port "cargo bay" or a stealthy retractable boom that stows in the port cargo bay; I rather favor the former approach as I think it would be technically easier, but I could see how to work either of them.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2019, 03:18:51 AM »
B-2A with removable refueling rig in the bomb bay? Hmmmm......
Iíll look into the pylon and tank idea. Thanks!

I wonder...does anyone do a version of the below trialled set up as a model conversion:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2019, 03:27:01 AM »
A KF-23????
Now that would really be a stretch version!

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2019, 12:07:04 PM »
B-2A with removable refueling rig in the bomb bay? Hmmmm......
Iíll look into the pylon and tank idea. Thanks!

I wonder...does anyone do a version of the below trialled set up as a model conversion:
Wasn't there something similar proposed for the TSR.2?  ISTR that someone did such a conversion set for it.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #87 on: June 17, 2019, 11:38:29 AM »
I attached the tail fins. Can't call them vertical or horizontal stabilizers! I had to trim them to fit as the mating surfaces did not match at all. The fuselage surface had a concave shape while the fin was flat. I think I got the angle correct. I have to fix the landing gear as the shape may be correct (at least it looks good) it will never support the weight of the model. Some reinforcing with straight pins will be required. Oh well, there is always some problem to overcome.
I tested some dark grey gloss paint from the hardware store on the one fin and after a couple weeks drying time it showed fingerprints as soon as I handled it. I hope different paint over it doesn't cause problems.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2019, 01:24:42 PM »
I removed the grey paint from the fins. Quite a little PITA. Sprayed some primer on. Only one small portion of one stab had a bad reaction and crazed slightly. I'll take this as a win. Still can't decide on a color scheme. If I would get it together and use my airbrush I could mix the colors I want and get on with this job. I've had such bad luck with painting on my last few projects I really hesitate to try. Oh well, I won't get better at this by staring at it, I'll have to try something different.



The 1/48th scale gun pods might become 1/72nd scale fuel tanks. I haven't used them for their intended purpose in 20 years so might as well use them here. Minus the gun barrels and adding a tail cone and fins. What would a stealthy fuel tank really look like?

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2019, 01:35:47 PM »
Looks fast as closest runner up to SR-71.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #90 on: August 25, 2019, 01:38:04 PM »
What would a stealthy fuel tank really look like?
Well, something like the main body of the AGM-137A, but with either the front end mirrored to the back end or the existing back end closed out with a reduced-size version of the front end is a definite possibility.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #91 on: August 25, 2019, 09:20:02 PM »
Iíll look that up! The F-35 has some sort of pod that fits on the centerline position that might give a clue. Although that means some sculpting will be required. Thatís ok, I enjoy that part the most!

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #92 on: August 25, 2019, 10:58:05 PM »
What would a stealthy fuel tank really look like?
Well, something like the main body of the AGM-137A, but with either the front end mirrored to the back end or the existing back end closed out with a reduced-size version of the front end is a definite possibility.

I've seen those drop tanks that shapeways has for the F-35, I was thinking of asking the master-maker if he would change the appearance so it looked like a smaller F-35 forward fuselage in section (if it works for the fuselage, it should work for a tank). Even then I'm not sure why the bulk of the tank is so far forward.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • ‹ber Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2019, 12:46:29 AM »
Depending on which stations the tanks were carried on, I could see the bulk of the tank being forward for area rule reasons.

As I said, using http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-137.html and the three-view there as a guide, split the airframe just in front of the wings and mirror the front part to the back for an LO drop tank.  Though you could probably get away with just removing the wings and tail surfaces and using that shape for the tank.

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2019, 11:29:43 PM »
Iíll look that up! The F-35 has some sort of pod that fits on the centerline position that might give a clue. Although that means some sculpting will be required. Thatís ok, I enjoy that part the most!
The F-35 drop tanks are NOT designed to be stealthy. They are oddly designed for, as was mentioned, area ruling and other aerodynamic reasons. Not stealth. They are awful for stealth.

You would definitely want something that looks like the AGM-137 but possibly with a nod to the area ruling of the drop tanks, if you want it to be used stealthily. Of course, you could do as the USAF is doing and assuming that you use the non stealthy tanks in transit and drop them for the stealth part of the mission, in which case they can be any shape you like.

Paul

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2019, 01:19:15 AM »
Sort of like what I used here on my F-35B

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: F-23A photo recon version
« Reply #96 on: September 04, 2019, 12:52:12 AM »
Thunderstorms in the area today so no outdoor projects to distract me. Hopefully I will make the stealth fuel tanks today. I'm going to pattern them after the AGM-158 JASSM (Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile).