Author Topic: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives  (Read 25284 times)

Offline Weaver

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #180 on: November 26, 2014, 05:32:37 AM »
Cross posting some inspiration:



From Sabre Dingo


Just realised what's been bugging me about this profile. In the Sabre, the intake duct goes under the cockpit floor and then up to the centreline to meet the engine, so the back-seater in the TF-86 actually sat higher than the pilot, not lower. The side profile of the TF-86 on Airmodel's site that Rickshaw linked confirms this. Can't link it from their site but here's another profile that shows what I'm talking about:




Interestingly, Dassault produced a near equivalent of this called the Mystere IVN, using the Mystere IV airframe, AN/APG-33 radar and an Avon engine:



The AdA evaluated it but ended up choosing the Vautour and the F-86K instead. IIRC, the principle objection to the IVN was lack of fuel.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #181 on: October 05, 2015, 11:00:36 PM »
I've been looking through the old, but still excellent, book on the Sabre and derivatives by Eric Morgan and I noticed something, the Orenda version fitted to the Sabre Mk.6 quite matches the Avon and Sapphire in the Australian Sabres and Navy Furies, respectively, without needing the higher airflow either requires.  So, what if Australia had gone in with Canada on Sabre development and not had to do as extreme a redesign for their use?  By the same token, imagine Orenda-powered Furies flying from RCN carriers.

Offline Geoff

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #182 on: February 16, 2016, 06:33:26 PM »
If this has been mentioned somewhere else I apologise.

At least one F-86 (and I believe a small batch) was delivered to the Iraqi air force at the time of the revolution but never entered service as the head of the AF was a communist and wanted closer ties with the USSR. Just a thought.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #183 on: February 17, 2016, 08:34:54 AM »
I've been looking through the old, but still excellent, book on the Sabre and derivatives by Eric Morgan and I noticed something, the Orenda version fitted to the Sabre Mk.6 quite matches the Avon and Sapphire in the Australian Sabres and Navy Furies, respectively, without needing the higher airflow either requires.  So, what if Australia had gone in with Canada on Sabre development and not had to do as extreme a redesign for their use?  By the same token, imagine Orenda-powered Furies flying from RCN carriers.

I've often been enamoured of the John Blaxland idea of greater co-operation between Australia and Canada.   We are both Dominions, of a similar size and have similar political outlooks, aspirations and views on most issues.  However, in real life Oz always looked to first the UK and then later the US for its ideas, politics and defence materiale'.  It was a shame really, as there were many opportunities which were missed and continue to be missed.  If, after WWII, Canada had, had a more Pacific view in it's foreign policy and Australia a more Northwards view in it's, there could have been quite a meeting of views.   Canada however remained firmly locked on the North Atlantic and hence Europe, while Oz looked primarily to Asia.

It might have seen greater co-operation in South Korea, acted as a brake on our involvement in Vietnam and seen greater co-operation in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Blaxland hypothesised in 2002 a joint Canadian-Australian Brigade in Iraq in 2003.   We both operated Leopard 1s, M113s.  Canada decided to purchase Leopard 2s, we decided to purchase M1s.   In the air, you have your aforementioned Sabre possibility.  If we had both gone into the great white hope of the Canadians, the CF-105, it might not have been so easily cancelled.   We did need a Mach 2 fighter at the time and the CF-105 was supposedly exemplary.  Instead we ended up with the Mirage III and the Canadians with the F-104.   :(

Offline jcf

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #184 on: February 18, 2016, 02:09:58 AM »
Canada looked to the Atlantic for the simple reason that the Ottawa powerbase was completely Anglo-Centric,
the powersharing with the West Coast that a Pacific view would have entailed simply wasn't going to happen. Hell,
the Ottawa establishment still considers the West and West Coast as backwards upstarts.

The F-104 was never intended to fill the continental air defense role envisioned for the CF-105, that role was
filled by the F-101, the F-104 was picked to fulfill NATO commitments, and probably would have been purchased
for that role even if the CF-105 had proceeded.
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Online finsrin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #185 on: February 18, 2016, 02:43:08 AM »
Is exactly the intra Canada relationship I encountered from discussing Canadian politics with British Columbia friends.
Right on,,, couldn't said it better !

Offline kerick

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #186 on: February 18, 2016, 06:19:52 AM »
In the US try talking about anything with a New Yorker.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #187 on: May 22, 2016, 07:34:20 PM »
John Lacey posted some F-86Ds in RAF colours:





Source: Facebook - John's Aircraft & Armour Profile Page
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 07:57:34 PM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #188 on: February 12, 2017, 11:11:13 PM »
G’day gents

I've once again been looking through Tony Buttler's American Secret Projects Fighters & Interceptors 1945-1978

In it is some great pictures of manufacturers models of the North American Aviation 'Advanced F-86' & 'Sabre 45' projects (page 50 & 51) - the precursor to the F-100 Super Sabre!

I'm thinking of a backstory pertaining to a more conservative evolution of the F-86 Sabre design by North American Aviation, as opposed to them taking a more riskier and expensive jump directly to the F-100 Super Sabre.
As in the case of the Mikoyan-and-Gurevich Design Bureau did with their improving of the combat tested and proven MiG-15 Fagot, which evolved into the improved MiG-17 Fresco, before they took the jump to the supersonic and more radical MiG-19 Farmer design!

So it is, that I'm hoping, that someone out there might have 3-view drawings or profiles of the proposed 'Advanced F-86 / Sabre 45' or if someone is willing to have a crack at creating some of these 'Advanced F-86' & 'Sabre 45' profiles. 

P.S. I have to apologise, as I only have this picture from the book!!

M.A.D

Just realised how much these look like the Super Mystere B2, I wonder if you could bash an advanced sabre out of a super mystere?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #189 on: April 09, 2017, 04:24:57 AM »
If you want to confound someone, get a load of the "Standing Kangaroo" roundel on this RAAF Sabre:

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Offline M.A.D

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #190 on: April 10, 2017, 03:10:47 PM »
If you want to confound someone, get a load of the "Standing Kangaroo" roundel on this RAAF Sabre:




Yes, that's different Greg!

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #191 on: April 11, 2017, 12:27:40 PM »
If you want to confound someone, get a load of the "Standing Kangaroo" roundel on this RAAF Sabre:



Please tell me decals of this variant are available.  That has to be done.

Offline kim margosein

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #192 on: April 12, 2017, 06:30:36 AM »
Some company years ago did a generic RAAF sheet which included some boxing kangaroo roundels.  This is astounding.  The only other aircraft I have seen with these rondels is a deHavilland Beaver.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #193 on: April 13, 2017, 03:30:14 AM »
The only other aircraft I have seen with these rondels is a deHavilland Beaver.


Indeed.





BTW, here is the original voting choice for which Roundel to use:

« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 03:41:37 AM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-86 Sabre and Derivatives
« Reply #194 on: April 13, 2017, 03:39:00 AM »
Some company years ago did a generic RAAF sheet which included some boxing kangaroo roundels. 


There is/was also a set in both 1/72 and 1.48 from Max Decals for the Beaver (it was part of their Antarctic Aviation Series):

All hail the God of Frustration!!!