Author Topic: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 39610 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2013, 12:37:32 PM »
There was a sort of cargo carrying submarine that was part of the story in a science fiction book that I read a very long time ago.  I can not remember the title or the author. 

The submarine was actually a tug that pulled a very large submarine oil barge.  The submarine tug was armed with a number of torpedoes and drones located around the exterior of the hull.  The plot had something to do with moving the oil from a disputed area back to the United States and it involved a long submarine tunnel that exited into the Gulf of Mexico.  All very fantastic from the descriptions in the book.
Under Pressure by Frank Herbert, his last major work before he got involved with Dune.  I believe it's also been published as 21st Century Sub and possibly other titles; I haven't had the chance to consult ISFDB.
Thanks Evan,

Figured you would be the one to know or remember the name of the book and the author :)

I read that book in the very early 70s and according to Wikipedia it was also titled as The Dragon in the Sea first published in 1956. 
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Offline Queeg

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2013, 12:55:44 PM »
My ideas for submarines lie more along the lines of using their hulls for spaceships by mating the superstructures from 1/700 ships to the top and fitting engines.  Think the Tiger Claw from Wing Commander ......

However thinking further advanced underwater combat needs plenty of spatial distance. I'm thinking that Jupiters moon Europa, which is thought to have twice as much water as Earth, would be the perfect environment for underwater habitats, bases and large scale combat as large corporations fight for it's control (water is actually the Solar Sytems second most precious substance).

Offline raafif

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2013, 02:09:33 PM »
Jap submersible oil-tank

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2013, 03:13:50 AM »
I suppose submarine transports is one way to make life harder for the pirates... ;D
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Offline raafif

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2013, 04:02:09 AM »
maybe the pirates get in league with the cocain smugglers & build their own subs in order to attack from beneath the waves ;)  Done properly it could work well ... unlike in the movie "Assault on a Queen" where one crewman's greed got them sunk :icon_sueno: -- yeah, I barrack for the baddies.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2013, 05:27:22 AM »
Saunders-Roe/SARO P.212 nuclear powered commercial cargo sub.


That could possibly provide a basis for a good submarine aircraft carrier.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 02:34:26 AM »
Concept diagram of a Concrete Submarine:

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Offline Diamondback

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2014, 05:42:17 AM »
The concrete sub design, with its nose-only inlets and exhausts, reminds me of a line from one of Voltaire's songs...

Star Trekkin'
Across the Universe
Boldly Going forward
'Cause we can't find 'Reverse'!


LOL

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2014, 08:47:06 AM »
There was a sort of cargo carrying submarine that was part of the story in a science fiction book that I read a very long time ago.  I can not remember the title or the author. 

The submarine was actually a tug that pulled a very large submarine oil barge.  The submarine tug was armed with a number of torpedoes and drones located around the exterior of the hull.  The plot had something to do with moving the oil from a disputed area back to the United States and it involved a long submarine tunnel that exited into the Gulf of Mexico.  All very fantastic from the descriptions in the book.
Under Pressure by Frank Herbert, his last major work before he got involved with Dune.  I believe it's also been published as 21st Century Sub and possibly other titles; I haven't had the chance to consult ISFDB.
Thanks Evan,

Figured you would be the one to know or remember the name of the book and the author :)

I read that book in the very early 70s and according to Wikipedia it was also titled as The Dragon in the Sea first published in 1956.

Actually, I first read it in the serialized form in Astounding Science Fiction from my father's collection.  The old gentleman corrupted rather well with that collection and I could never thank him enough.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2014, 11:12:25 AM »
Luxury sub anyone:

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2015, 02:58:13 AM »
Some novel propulsion concepts:







All from "Design Study Report: A Survey of Conventional and Unconventional Submarine Propulsion System" from the Defense Technical Information Center website
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2015, 05:41:09 AM »
Coo, real world design:  Soviet P-2 super-sub



More info
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2015, 01:08:35 PM »
Damn, that's practically a complete underwater base in itself.  I think I'd figure out a way to have elevators raise the missiles for firing rather than hoisting them as that would expose fewer people and likely take less time.  Be a heck of a model in 1/350 scale.  *chuckle* Imagine a radar-picket version with a larger number of Wasserfall derivatives.

Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2015, 03:51:45 PM »
I've always wanted to build a "fighter sub" based on the principals of the Hawkes deep flight falcon.... The reasoning being that stealth tech will advance so much, that the only way to combat them would be through visual detection from small manned or unmanned sub's launched from a larger hunter killer or nuclear vessel, this could even eventually lead to underwater dogfights :D

Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2015, 12:49:28 AM »
 The Soviet P-2 is pretty cool - is there a smaller image someplace?

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2015, 04:40:06 AM »
The Soviet P-2 is pretty cool - is there a smaller image someplace?


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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2015, 02:07:23 AM »
I've always wanted to build a "fighter sub" based on the principals of the Hawkes deep flight falcon.... The reasoning being that stealth tech will advance so much, that the only way to combat them would be through visual detection from small manned or unmanned sub's launched from a larger hunter killer or nuclear vessel, this could even eventually lead to underwater dogfights :D
Might be interesting to see what could be done by working strictly with hydrodynamic lift instead of using buoyancy to rise or descend, though you'd probably need a rugged hull.  See, for example, the U.S. deep combat submarines of Martin Caidin's The Last Fathom.

Offline jcf

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2015, 04:09:12 AM »
If you look carefully at the drawings he used for the P2 cutaway, you'll see that the 'mini-subs' each contain
a T-34ish tank, making it likely the mini-subs were intended as landing craft.
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Offline RP1

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2015, 11:51:43 PM »
We semi-regularly return to the topic of "fighter" submarines at work as a fun little exercise, either operating on their own or as squadron leaders for a pack of UUV. Since they have much smaller hull diameters the hulls can be disproportionately thick and strong compared to their motherships. Also, with shorter endurance more mass can be put into structure as there are less systems. However the cost of depth for such a boat would be in any water-facing systems. Cooling circuits, sensors etc will all be exposed to the external pressure and these will *also* need to be stronger, which can get really expensive (and risky). This is why Deep Flight uses wings as they can't fail like a pressure-facing deballasting system and don't have some of the... control issues that ascent by blowing one's tanks does.

Hydrodynamic lift is really important for conventional submarines - there are reasons why one would want to avoid using ones ballast tanks and putting a small trim on the boat will generate lift easily (plus the effect of the thrust direction). The trade-off is that the wings add a lot of skin friction, which increases drag - this is a bit of a killer for submarines because of the energy storage problem. (plus drag => noise as it means there's more energy being put into the water one way or another).

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2015, 05:36:38 PM »
http://www.silvercrestsubmarines.co.uk/images/clip_image006_009.jpg

What could you use to build something similar to the deep flight challenger though?? Can't think of any aircraft similar to it. And what would be the armourmant of choice? Laser guided, or simply use the thing as a ram like Verne's nautilus?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2015, 11:44:47 PM »
http://www.silvercrestsubmarines.co.uk/images/clip_image006_009.jpg

What could you use to build something similar to the deep flight challenger though?? Can't think of any aircraft similar to it. And what would be the armourmant of choice? Laser guided, or simply use the thing as a ram like Verne's nautilus?


A suitable body shape might be found in the form of a model race car body.  Formula One, Le Mans, Indianapolis, or perhaps a drag racer.
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Offline jcf

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2015, 12:25:58 AM »
Start with a piece of wood and the modern fighter canopy of yer choice.  ;)



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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2015, 02:36:28 AM »
Given these real world ones:



Why not use a E.381 kit as a starting point for an underwater 'fighter':

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2015, 02:38:51 AM »
Or alternatively, what about a Heinkel "Lerche II":

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2015, 02:41:01 AM »
A Trader Federation Droid Fighter might also provide an interesting starting point:

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