Author Topic: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters  (Read 5021 times)

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
« on: February 07, 2012, 03:04:34 PM »
Some of you may remember my proposal for Geriatria, so here's another along those lines.



Thriftiland!  Yours is a nation of coupon-cutters, penny-pinchers, and spendthrifts.  Some would call you frugal or even miserly, but you just know how to spot a good deal and take advantage of it.  You wait for the sale of the century to come along, then you pounce on it.  You only buy second-hand, from other nation's rummage sales.

So, with the benefit of 20/20 vision, what deals of the last--let's say--30 years would you use to form your military.  These need to be pieces of equipment that were either sold second-hand or at least for sale.  A general rule is low hours, low price.

Here's a few that come to my mind:

    AFVs
    • South African Ratels
    • Germany's surplus Leopard 2s
    • Belgian/Dutch YPR-765s
    • Various surplus M109s
      Helicopters
      • German Bo-105s
      • US Army AH-1F Cobras
      • US Army UH-1
      • Italian AB-205/212
      • Germany Mi-8/17s
      • German Mi-24 Hinds
      • Canadian CH-147 Chinooks
        Combat Aircraft
        • USMC A-4Ms Skyhawks
        • Kuwaiti A-4KUs Skyhawks
        • USAF A-37B Dragonflys
        • Czech L-159 ALCA
        • British Harriers
        • British Sea Harriers
        • Belarussian/Czech Su-25 Frogfoots
        • Swiss/Jordanian F-5E/Fs
        • Moldovan/Czech/German MiG-29 Fulcrums
        • Dutch F-16s
        • Indian Su-30K Flankers
        • USAF F-111G Aardvarks
          Support Aircraft
          • German/Czech L-39s
          • Swiss Hawks
          • Norwegian/Dutch P-3 Orions
          • USN S-3 Vikings
          • Israeli E-2 Hawkeyes
          • Various C-130E/Hs
          • Ukrainian Il-76/78s

          So, what are some of the best deals that you can think of?

          Cheers,

          Logan

          Offline finsrin

          • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
          • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 08:07:07 AM »
          Two that pop to mind as surplus since 1980 are Vulcan and B-52G.  This if Thriftiland is looking to build its own SAC which aint to thrify to do.  But if they were.........

          Offline Logan Hartke

          • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
          • Rivet-counting whiffer
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 08:12:11 AM »
          Neither of those were ever sold or for sale, though.  I'm thinking of the cases like the early retirement of the Harrier that the USMC jumped on and people think, "Wow, they got a steal."  I think that about the Finns buying those Swiss Hawks, too, for example.

          Cheers,

          Logan

          Offline finsrin

          • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
          • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 09:40:07 AM »
          OK - got it
          Think there would be M-48 and M-60 tanks available.
          I remember seeing F-8 Crusaders flying in early 80s.  Maybe there was a time you could make offer on those?

          Offline Weaver

          • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
          • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 08:31:23 PM »
          I don't know if they were offered for sale, but if they were, I'd have bitten the RAF's hands off for their Jaguar 98s: they'd just spent the previous 10 years getting them all the upgrades you can think of: avionics, new engines, new weapons.....

          Also (again, don't know what was actually offered), I'd have seriously considered ex British Army Chieftains IF there was the option to rebuild them with Chally I engines like the Jordanian Khalids.
          "I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

          "I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

          "I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

          Twitter: @hws5mp
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          Offline Logan Hartke

          • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
          • Rivet-counting whiffer
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 10:14:29 PM »
          I think both of those would be available (likely Chally 1s, as well), but I'm not sure.  The UK has a nasty habit of scrapping things as soon as they retire them, I suspect for political reasons as much as any.

          I did think of the Jags, though, and think they would be particularly fine strike planes.

          Cheers,

          Logan

          Offline Alvis 3.1

          • Self acknowledged "Bad Influence"…but probably less attractive than Pink
          • The high priest of whiffing
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 01:53:20 AM »
          Almost immediately after upgrading out CF-5s to F-18 standards, the government had them stored, due to lack of funds to actually field them. We sold a few to Botswana, as far as I know, they are still up for grabs.


          Alvis 3.1

          Offline Weaver

          • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
          • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 04:44:23 AM »
          New Zealand's A4 Kahu Skyhawks were in a superb state of fit when they were retired: they even had APG-66 radars with a cut-down aerial! I don't know what happened to them but they were damded tasty... Now Singapore does (or did) an excellent line in Skyhawk mods including re-engining with dry F-404s, so imagine taking the Kiwi ones to them for that..... 8)

          I believe that Israel still has used Kfirs to sell, with the option of upgrades, and one of those was an afterburning F-404 in it's Volvo RM-12 version.
          "I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

          "I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

          "I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

          Twitter: @hws5mp
          Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

          Offline Logan Hartke

          • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
          • Rivet-counting whiffer
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 05:18:19 AM »
          Yeah, those are all great options.  There's a lot on the naval front, too, from the Varyag to the Foch to the Invincible.  Heck, there were even rumors of Kitty Hawk being up for grabs for a while.  With all the Harriers the UK had, you could basically buy up all the equipment you'd need for a ready-made carrier and air-group.  Second-hand naval aircraft include Sea Harriers, A-4s, A-7s, and Hawkeyes.

          There are some other nice ships that went up for sale, such as the RFA Largs Bay and the USS Trenton.  A lot of decent destroyers have been sold with a lot of life left in them and the Oliver Hazard Perry class are fantastic ships for the price, in my opinion, a great deal considering the upgrade options and the versatility of the basic design.

          I really do think the Victoria-class where a seemingly good deal at the time, though they have turned into albatrosses since their purchase.

          Cheers,

          Logan

          Offline apophenia

          • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
          • Patterns? What patterns?
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 06:49:16 AM »
          Logan: Cool thread! Ships like the Oliver Hazard Perry class are a great deal for Developing World navies with no issues with their relatively large complement.

          As you said, the Victoria class subs seemed like a deal at the time. The kicker was that it was a 'widow' class. With no sister boats anywhere and spares out of production in the land of their birth, these SSKs quickly became a liability instead of an asset.

          Alvis 3.1: Not all of the CF-5s had completed upgrades when Ottawa pulled the plug. AFAIK, Botswana got the pick of the litter (maybe most importantly, Bristol's steel longerons). The remainder were part avionics upgrades and part original condition.

          DSAL withdrew their sale offer on  CF-5s back in 2006. Some of the airframes may still be sitting at CFB Mountainview but the latest trend is to offer everything surplus up to museums or as base mascots. Same fate for the AVGPs (although Uruguay snapped up a few for peacekeeping).

          Weav: Vickers' Chieftain 1000 had an MTU Europack. That might be a better Chieftain re-engining choice for the Thiftiland Self-Defence Force. Come to that, everybody in Europe is dumping Leopards right now.

          Leopard 1A5s are readily avaiable although parts might prove a challenge. IIRC, having sold a batch to Canada, the Dutch have just offered up all of their remaining Leopard 2A4s and 2A6s. A good deal for somebody. Then there's all those Bundeswehr Marders about to be disposed of and Rheinmetall ready with a really impressive upgrade package  ;)
          Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

          Offline Weaver

          • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
          • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 06:18:07 PM »
          A few years back, a large batch of ex-Swiss Pz.68/88s were up for sale through an on-line site! They were the latest upgrade standard. A Pz.68 was basically like an early Leo I with less speed and thicker armour, plus lower width to get over more Swiss bridges. They never got spaced armour like the Leo Is , but I don't see why reactives couldn't be fitted. Although these are an "oddball" vehicle in themselves, most of the components were industry standard, i.e. L7 gun, MTU power pack, off-the-shelf electronics etc..
          "I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

          "I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

          "I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

          Twitter: @hws5mp
          Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

          Offline GTX_Admin

          • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
          • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
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          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #11 on: February 11, 2012, 03:52:44 AM »
          I don't know what happened to them but they were damded tasty...

          They tried to sell them numerous times but in the end I think they have ended up being sent to museums or stored pending scrapping.  I saw them in real life in NZ a couple of years ago.
          « Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:54:22 AM by GTX_Admin »
          All hail the God of Frustration!!!

          Offline apophenia

          • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
          • Patterns? What patterns?
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #12 on: February 11, 2012, 11:28:48 AM »
          A few years back, a large batch of ex-Swiss Pz.68/88s were up for sale through an on-line site! They were the latest upgrade standard. A Pz.68 was basically like an early Leo I with less speed and thicker armour, plus lower width to get over more Swiss bridges. They never got spaced armour like the Leo Is , but I don't see why reactives couldn't be fitted. Although these are an "oddball" vehicle in themselves, most of the components were industry standard, i.e. L7 gun, MTU power pack, off-the-shelf electronics etc..

          Interesting! That MTU powerpack is closely related to that of the Jaguar. Can't you just see those Pz.68s operating alongside ex-Bundeswehr Raketenjagdpanzers and Kanones  :)
          Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

          Offline finsrin

          • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
          • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
          Re: Thriftiland - A Nation of Coupon-Cutters
          « Reply #13 on: November 25, 2013, 04:29:11 PM »
          The fixed wing B-1 in ysi_maniac posting #270 came to mind.  :-*
          If Thrifiland could get low dollar retired B-1 purchase to start with.
          « Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 04:39:15 PM by finsrin »