Author Topic: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration  (Read 23508 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« on: February 05, 2012, 11:52:29 AM »
Knolls,

A thread for your German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ( and derivatives) ideas and inspiration.

To start with, what about a SPH based on the Tiger I and mounting either a 15cm or even 17cm gun?

Regards,

Greg
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 01:16:45 PM »
It's actually quite surprising that an SPH wasn't considered given the use of the Elefant and the German propensity for slinging a large gun onto an existing hull.  There was, of course, the Sturmtiger which was sorta like an SPG.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 01:29:48 PM »
A bit like this perhaps:

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 02:37:30 PM »
Looks the part Greg.

Regard,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 10:06:04 AM »
The Grille 17 & 21 (17cm & 21cm guns respectively) were planned to be mounted on a modified King Tiger hull.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 02:33:26 AM »
How about a Tiger tank with it's 88mm gun back in the Anti-aircraft role - maybe a open top set up similar to some of the other anti-aircraft tanks?
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 02:46:06 AM »
How about a Tiger tank with it's 88mm gun back in the Anti-aircraft role - maybe a open top set up similar to some of the other anti-aircraft tanks?

Sounds neat!  How about adding a trailer or another modified tracked vehicle to act as an ammo supply?
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 04:26:16 AM »
I am thinking of an arrangement similar to the 37mm Möbelwagen (see below) but with a 88mm Flak gun mounted on the Tiger.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 07:00:08 AM »
There was a Panther derivative that used an 88mm Flak, but I can't recall either the Tiger or Kingtiger being used as an AA vehicle.  Would be quite a beast, akin to the E-100 Flakpanzer.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2012, 12:47:22 AM »
 Heh. Strange minds whif alike...I picked up a second Hasegawa 1/72 'Tiger. Last model' at the Austin show last fall, and one of the
 nice things about that series of kits is the inclusion of the sprues for the earlier boxings. So I've got a couple of Tiger chassis and
 a pair of 88 barrels. I'm thing about something like the twin flak arrangement of the FlakMaus/E-100, big box around the side-by-side
 gun tubes, sticking out of a slightly modified turret. but I have to finish the Panther VierBeiner* for the GB first... :)



 * means "four-legged." You'll see.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 02:41:27 AM »
but I have to finish the Panther VierBeiner* for the GB first... :)



 * means "four-legged." You'll see.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 03:03:10 AM »
There was a Panther derivative that used an 88mm Flak


That would be the Grille 10 (see below).  Now imagine that top on a Tiger I hull.




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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 06:35:30 AM »
Greg, that's actually the Versuchsflakwagen (or more properly 8.8cm Flak auf Sonderfahrgestell PzSfl IVc).  The baseline chassis was a heavily modified Pz IV chassis that had started life as a tank destroyer, but redeveloped into a Flakwagen.  I hadn't heard it called a Grille variant though, as they were usually SPGs.

The one I was thinking of was the 8.8cm Flak 41 (Sf) auf Panther Bauteile built by Rheinmetall which had a rotating open turret ontop of a Panther chassis.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 06:46:52 AM »
Greg, that's actually the Versuchsflakwagen (or more properly 8.8cm Flak auf Sonderfahrgestell PzSfl IVc).  The baseline chassis was a heavily modified Pz IV chassis that had started life as a tank destroyer, but redeveloped into a Flakwagen.


Actually the vehicle shown is a Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther" derived vehicle.  Check out the wheel/track layout.  Compare to below:

Panzerkampfwagen V:


Panzerkampfwagen IV:


« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 06:48:47 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 06:55:09 AM »
Supposed Grille 10 variants:

Model:       Armament:                        Chassis / Components:
Grille 10*        88mm Flak 37 L/56 (early)
                     88mm Flak 41 L/75 (late)      Panzer IV / Sd.Kfz.9
Grille 10*        88mm Flak 37/41.                   Panther
Grille 10        100mm K.                           Panther
Grille 10        105mm leFH 43/35.           Panther
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2012, 07:08:29 AM »
Actually the vehicle shown is a Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther" derived vehicle.  Check out the wheel/track layout. 

Greg, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree.  The initial L/56 vehicle was developed by Krupp early in the War (ie: prior to 1940) to knock out bunkers on the Maginot Line.  With the fall of France, they were re-roled as panzerjagers but too lightly armoured to be of use.  In 1942, Krupp proposed turning the vehicle into a Flakwagen.

These dates quite obviously predate the Panther and the vehicle is specifically named Sonderfahrgestell IVc.  One could suggest the wheel system was developed from a Tiger I rather than a Panther which would be more in keeping with the timeline, although the type is described as a modified Pz IV chassis.

Ref: Panzer Tracts No 12.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 10:29:46 AM »
Regardless of what it is or isn't, it doesn't change my suggestion for a Tiger I derived 88mm SPAAG.
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2012, 11:28:54 AM »
I agree totally.  It's quite surprising that schwere Flakwagens or StuGs weren't considered for the Tiger chassis, given the amount of prototype or even paper panzers that are out there.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2012, 02:36:29 PM »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2012, 01:43:14 AM »
Found this image in the Schiffer Publishing Book on the Tiger I and Tiger II by Horst Schiebert

(Image shared for the purpose of discussion with no infringement intended on copyright)

The rather neat separation of the barrel at that point gives one time to imagine what an infantry support tank based on the Tiger I would look like with a short barrel main gun or howitzer for demolishing bunkers or reducing obstacles during the assault.  All that is missing is a bulldozer blade. 
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2012, 03:34:51 AM »
Indeed.

Mind you, that would have been quite something to see happen...from a suitable distance... ;)
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 12:16:28 AM »
1/35th scale Trumpeter 17cm Kanone 72 auf Geschützwagen Tiger II (Grille II) built by Sebastian Altwasser. 

Click on html or image to view article.

A nice shot of the Grille I and Grille II to give you an idea of size. 

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 04:48:04 PM »
What about a Jagdpanzer or Stug derived from a Tiger I?
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2012, 05:01:49 AM »
 Hmmm. You could argue that the SturmMorser Tiger, with that great honking rocket-gun was a
 Stug, but the all but ignored 105 mm Flak 38 might be a possible gun for the JagdTiger I. I see
 its supposed to have had about the same performance as the 88, but surely it would have
 lobbed a more effective HE round...Alas, very under represented in all scales, though I remember
 Fujimi made one in 1/76 back in the 'seventies.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2012, 10:41:38 AM »
Quote
Posted by: GTX_Admin
« on: 11 February 2012, 20:46:52 » 
Quote
Quote from: Maverick on 11 February 2012, 20:35:30
Greg, that's actually the Versuchsflakwagen (or more properly 8.8cm Flak auf Sonderfahrgestell PzSfl IVc).  The baseline chassis was a heavily modified Pz IV chassis that had started life as a tank destroyer, but redeveloped into a Flakwagen.



Actually the vehicle shown is a Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther" derived vehicle.  Check out the wheel/track layout.



My book says that this vehicle's chassis used a mixture of Panzer IV and Sdkfz 9 half-track components. If you look at the wheels, they're totally different in design (perforated, for a start) from those of the Panther, even though they overlap in the same way. They are however, very similar to the half-track's.







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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2012, 02:52:59 PM »
Quote
Posted by: GTX_Admin
« on: 11 February 2012, 20:46:52 » 
Quote
Quote from: Maverick on 11 February 2012, 20:35:30
Greg, that's actually the Versuchsflakwagen (or more properly 8.8cm Flak auf Sonderfahrgestell PzSfl IVc).  The baseline chassis was a heavily modified Pz IV chassis that had started life as a tank destroyer, but redeveloped into a Flakwagen.



Actually the vehicle shown is a Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther" derived vehicle.  Check out the wheel/track layout.



My book says that this vehicle's chassis used a mixture of Panzer IV and Sdkfz 9 half-track components. If you look at the wheels, they're totally different in design (perforated, for a start) from those of the Panther, even though they overlap in the same way. They are however, very similar to the half-track's.




It was one of those odd experiments the Germans kept trying to save money.  They needed a large vehicle to carry a 88mm FLaK gun but they didn't want to the expense.  Someone though, "Hey what if we mix up a few existing components, perhaps that will save money and weight!"  The hull was essentially a Panzer IV, the running gear from the 18 Ton half-track.  The result was a hybrid that didn't work very well.  The running gear was too light for the hull and kept breaking, so only one or two were ever built.   

They would have been better off using a Panzer III/IV hull, as they did on the Hummel and Nashorn SPGs - which combined the hull of a Panzer IV with the running gear of a Panzer III.  They were created at the end of the production run of the Panzer III.  They couldn't upgrade the Panzer III but they found that many of the contractors weren't able to build Panzer IV components so they combined the two vehicles.  However, that occurred after this particular vehicle was built.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2012, 03:52:13 AM »
Cheers - I wondered what the "logic" behind it was.... ???

Slightly off-topic, but look how freaking BIG those Sdkfz.9 FAMOs were! When you see them without people to scale them to, they look like long, half-track cars, but they're actually HUGE. The engine was, I think, not far removed from the Panzer IV engine in both design and power.
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2012, 06:30:14 PM »
They were the primary armoured recovery vehicle for most of the war for the Germans.  One could pull a Panzer IV.  Two coupled could pull a Panther or a Tiger.  They were originally designed as gun tractors for heavy artillery but they decided they could use them for recovery and they worked well.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2012, 08:46:01 AM »
Lately I was revisiting some of the late-war British AFVs armed with the 17-pdr.

IIRC, British late-war tanks designs already had their foundations laid down on requirements made in the aftermath of Fall of France, so they were pretty much optimised for what was available at the time- 2 pdr and 6 pdr- for their main guns.  6-pdr worked well enough against the primary Axis tanks back then, and 17-pdr was pretty much prototypes pressed into combat at that point.  Only when they made it back to the European mainland did that decision really come back to haunt them.

Did Germany possess any tank design that, if placed into production, would have motivated the British into putting a 17-pdr on a tank (or at least coming up with a 77mm HV) sooner?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 09:34:50 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2012, 06:13:39 PM »
Lately I was revisiting some of the late-war British AFVs armed with the 17-pdr.

IIRC, British late-war tanks designs already had their foundations laid down on requirements made in the aftermath of Fall of France, so they were pretty much optimised for what was available at the time- 2 pdr and 6 pdr- for their main guns.  6-pdr worked well enough against the primary Axis tanks back then, and 17-pdr was pretty much prototypes pressed into combat at that point.  Only when they made it back to the European mainland did that decision really come back to haunt them.

Did Germany possess any tank design that, if placed into production, would have motivated the British into putting a 17-pdr on a tank (or at least coming up with a 77mm HV) sooner?

Kind of similar line: the Russians knew all about the Tiger I well before it arrived in North Africa, but they didn't share their info when asked about a rumoured German heavy tank by allied intel. What if they had?

British Intel got wind of the Tiger I, to the extent of knowing it's weight, armour and gun calibre, in early Nov. 1942. They asked the Moscow mission to obtain more details, but the Russian didn't respond until after April 1943, by which time the British had already captured one in North Africa. The Russians had first engaged one in August 1942 outside Leningrad.....

It's not so much the sheer lead time (4-5 months) that's important as the timing: in between the Russians meeting one and the British meeting one, the combat debut of the Sherman happened, which led to an unfortunately complacent decision to standardise on the American 75mm for future British tanks. Given the inertia of the British requirement-design-development-production process, this was still having a serious effect long after it was shown to be flawed.
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2012, 03:55:35 PM »
Superdope (new member here on BTS) has built a pair of rather interesting what-if projects involving a 12.8 cm PaK mounted on a King Tiger and a Tiger I hull and describing them both as "streetfighters in his original posts at Missing-Lynx forums. 

I am linking both topics to our own forum to share superdopes's work and ingenuity here on BTS and to welcome superdope to the forums where I hope that we will be seeing more of his amazing work. 

Superdope's Tiger 1 Streetfighter

Click on html or image to view OP at Missing-Lynx.com forums.


(Image source: superdope)


Superdope's KingTiger Streetfighter

Click on html or image to view OP at Missing-Lynx.com forums.


(Image source: superdope)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 01:54:59 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2012, 01:55:24 AM »
They look somewhat similar to something I have been toying with....
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2012, 01:58:06 AM »
I should add - they are outstanding works of art and just drive me to complete my idea!
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2012, 09:10:52 AM »
At Missing Lynx in the Constructive Comments Forum: VK 4502 (H) H - Berlin Stray Cat Built by Jari Hemilä using the HobbyBoss VK4502, DML King Tiger turret, with an 88mm/L100 gun tube.  Certainly makes for an impressive looking road block and the camouflage scheme is very interesting. 

Click on image or html to view topic at Missing Lynx. 


(Image source Jari Hemilä/Missing Lynx via Photobucket)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 09:12:53 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2012, 05:18:41 PM »
Nice.
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2012, 10:22:50 PM »
Quite the burly beasties! Very cool stuff.  :)
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2012, 05:04:30 AM »
don't know why he used the DML turret - the kit turret was good (Porsche type) .... I do wonder why no-one has put an access/escape hatch in the rear plate of the hull tho.
Some of the "Heer'46" cam-schemes are whacky :)

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2012, 11:10:50 AM »
don't know why he used the DML turret - the kit turret was good (Porsche type) .... I do wonder why no-one has put an access/escape hatch in the rear plate of the hull tho.
Some of the "Heer'46" cam-schemes are whacky :)

I was thinking the same thing about the lack of an access door at the rear of the hull.  It would have made a lot of sense to have such a feature to ease the difficulties in loading the heaver 88mm/L100 ammunition. 
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Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2012, 10:05:23 PM »
don't know why he used the DML turret - the kit turret was good (Porsche type) .... I do wonder why no-one has put an access/escape hatch in the rear plate of the hull tho.
Some of the "Heer'46" cam-schemes are whacky :)

link to my SturmJager-1 ...
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1828.0


Wasn't the Porsche turret weaker in some ways? Like the bulge that the commander's hatch area had on the side of the turret?
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2012, 03:28:40 AM »
"Hans, did you hear about our new tank? They say the turret's at the back! No more having to crank the main gun sideways when going down a slope! Wunderbar!"

"They didn't tell you about the new main gun, did they, Fritz?"
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2012, 06:11:17 PM »
don't know why he used the DML turret - the kit turret was good (Porsche type) .... I do wonder why no-one has put an access/escape hatch in the rear plate of the hull tho.
Some of the "Heer'46" cam-schemes are whacky :)

I was thinking the same thing about the lack of an access door at the rear of the hull.  It would have made a lot of sense to have such a feature to ease the difficulties in loading the heaver 88mm/L100 ammunition.

Perhaps they preferred not to?  Two reasions as to why there isn't a hatch is because such a hatch would make manufacture times longer and would also decrease the rigidity of the hull.   By war's end the Germans were desperately trying to eliminate processes from their production lines to speed up production.

The Henschel turret is an interesting alternative, I have to admit.  Perhaps its meant to represent one of those one-offs the Germans were always building, perhaps an intact turret from a Henschel hull which was placed on a Porsche hull which had a damaged turret?

It makes an interesting what-iff, which ever way you look at it.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2013, 03:17:07 AM »
Random Idea:  Tiger I or Tiger II as a combined Tank/Heavy APC in a similar vein to the Merkerva with the ability to carry a small compliment of troops.  Not sure how exactly to do it just yet...
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Offline tahsin

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2014, 05:20:47 PM »
Have read it somewhere that the Tiger was first reported to be an APC by the British intelligence, a 70 ton vehicle with 100(?) troops on board.

Offline Queeg

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2014, 05:44:50 PM »
Random Idea:  Tiger I or Tiger II as a combined Tank/Heavy APC in a similar vein to the Merkerva with the ability to carry a small compliment of troops.  Not sure how exactly to do it just yet...


Not quite the combined tank/apc but it does tick the heavy apc box ..........




Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2014, 06:00:18 PM »
What scale?  Nice work detailing the 30mm cannon
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Offline Queeg

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2014, 06:12:26 PM »
1/72nd, its not mine it's Gordons from Cromwell Models. he did ask me if he could nick a few ideas from my Hummel SPW. He's also added applique armour and extra fuel tanks to some of the big E- Tanks too, like my modifed Panther III .........

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2014, 11:32:45 PM »
That does look great.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2014, 07:51:13 AM »
Some nice shots of WWII German tanks and AFVs from museums including a nice series of a battle damaged Tiger II at the bottom.

http://imgur.com/a/ir7Gu
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 07:56:15 AM by Cliffy B »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 03:51:50 AM »
Does anyone else look at this and think "Land Monitor"? ;D



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Offline elmayerle

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2015, 06:42:26 AM »
Does anyone else look at this and think "Land Monitor"? ;D





Yes, indeed.  John Ericcson would be jealous; would also probably claim patent infringement if he had one.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2015, 09:52:46 PM »
Just an idea but how about a simplified, easier and cheaper to produce, as well as more reliable Tiger that becomes as robust and reliable as the Panzer IV? 

The Germans are able to develop a vehicle that they are able to produce in sufficient numbers to replace the PzKpfw IV in the heavy companies of each panzer battalion, with the Panther (hopefully similarly simplified) replacing the PzKpfw III in the medium companies.  We can sort out the where's how's and why's of the back story later, as well as other details such as assault guns and tank destroyers etc. but the basic thought is an earlier iteration of the Tiger makes the Germans painfully aware of the issues that needed to be fixed in 41 and they actually fix them through 42 and 43 getting them into mass production by mid 43.  Anyway the allies encounter the early vehicle in 42 / 43, make the same assumptions they did in reality, then when they land at Normandy run head long into a couple of thousand improved Tigers that have effectively replaced the PzKpfw IV in many Panzer Divisions.

What would this Tiger look like?  Pretty much the same except for the road wheels, instead of interleaved dish type there would be a more conventional dual medium or large wheel type seen on many other nations tanks.  Most the other changes would be out of sight but their effect would be even more important as they facilitated the improved performance and ease of production.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2015, 04:45:05 AM »
run head long into a couple of thousand improved Tigers

Not so sure about "a couple of thousand" given that in total, there were only 1300 odd Tigers and 8800 odd PzKpfw IVs produced in total.  Even allowing for a simpler construction and reduced maintenance, I still doubt there would be that many in Normandy.  Even if there were many, many more available to the Heer, the majority would have been sent East I suspect.

That aside, the idea of a modified Tiger (especially with visually different features such as the road wheels) is intriguing.  Maybe something far simpler with large road wheels like the T-34?

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2015, 10:08:39 PM »
T34, Centurion and Pattern type large road wheels is exactly what I was thinking.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2016, 04:07:08 AM »
I was looking at this picture of ICM's new Tiger II kit and started thinking about a Tiger II without turret and just a open main gun.  This could perhaps be a rush job just to get a fighting vehicle out there or perhaps a design to allow a larger main gun.  Maybe even a lower cost tank destroyer somewhere between a Tiger II and a JagdTiger.

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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2016, 04:32:38 AM »
Maybe as a quick solution to address perceived weight issues stemming from strain on the drivetrain. The Tiger II's mechanical reliability (or lack their of) was a particular complaint of Peiper in the Ardennes Offensive. This could be a reaction to that feedback in the field. You could do an open-topped, thinly armored turret like the Heuschrecke 10 or Waffenträger series or an open-topped superstructure like the Marder series.

Alternatively, you could do it as a response to a shortage in the supply of turrets from Krupp due to some bombing raid, for example.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2019, 10:22:35 AM »
Dragon 1:35

Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2019, 04:20:26 PM »
Interesting. Modified Panther turret on a Tiger I?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2019, 05:45:12 PM »
Interesting. Modified Panther turret on a Tiger I?

'tis rather strange.  I've always understood that the large hatch(es) at the rear of German turrets were for the removal/mounting of the gun.  Can't quite see that working with it mounted on the side of the turret... 

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2019, 06:16:50 PM »
Interesting. Modified Panther turret on a Tiger I?

'tis rather strange.  I've always understood that the large hatch(es) at the rear of German turrets were for the removal/mounting of the gun.  Can't quite see that working with it mounted on the side of the turret...

Yup. That & ammunition handling (means you don't have to load through the top of the turret).


The biggest problem for the Tiger is that it was almost never used for purpose - it was designed as an assault or break-through tank - & was never meant to travel long distances or go for extended periods between services. The Pz.Kpfw.VI (Tiger) it was meant to roll up en-masse, punch a hole in the enemy's defences & pull aside for the Pz.Kpfw. IV's & V's (Panther) to exploit the break-through.

Unfortunately, for the Tiger, by the time its development finished (begun in 1937/38, I think) & it was battle-ready Germany was on the defensive, so it was used piece-meal as a blocking tank, a role it was ill-suited to.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2019, 12:41:12 AM »
Interesting. Modified Panther turret on a Tiger I?

Apparently the turret was illustrated on a "H2" mockup early during Tiger I development.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2020, 02:56:54 AM »
Training turrets apparently:

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2020, 02:36:50 AM »
Some interesting looking additional guns on the rear (click on image to zoom):

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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2020, 03:01:33 AM »
Interesting. Those are a couple of the relatively rare DS-39 Soviet machine guns, predecessor to the better known SG-43 Goryunov.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DS-39

Offline dy031101

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2020, 04:54:26 AM »
What if most surviving Tiger I tanks ended up in East Germany......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline robunos

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2020, 05:39:54 AM »
Dragon 1:35




Tiger I with a 75mm L70 (Panther) gun, it's referenced in Panzer Tracts 20-1, page 20-15.Basically for a time during it's development, the 88mm KwK wasn't reaching it's performance targets, whereas the 75mm L70 KwK was. Therefore consideration was given to terminating the 88mm KwK in favour of the 75mm L70, and a turret design using this gun for the Tiger was worked out, which got as far as the mockup stage. At this point, the development problems with the 88mm were overcome, and the Tiger design reverted to it, the 75mm turret being cancelled.


cheers,
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2020, 06:29:08 AM »
What if most surviving Tiger I tanks ended up in East Germany......

Did enough Tiger I survive the war to even make this worthwhile? I think there were only about 1400 built and how many were total losses or lost in France?

Interesting WhIf though!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2020, 04:55:34 AM »
Training turrets apparently:



Spooky.  Only a few days ago I posted the above photos and then today I see the following:

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2020, 05:18:58 AM »
Someone is watching you?  Stalking you?  Rockwell says it best: https://youtu.be/7YvAYIJSSZY
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Offline finsrin

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2020, 03:13:21 PM »
The fine 1/35 AFV/IFV & hover tank builds being posted lately (great builds  :smiley:) spurred me to comment here.   On a trip right now so can't get to stash to relay kit particulars.   In stash is large 1/15 1/16 1/25 or so Tiger kit without turret.   Foggy recall is Tamiya Tiger I.   Concept is to build as 1/72 US land cruiser/battle ship giant.   RW impractical but interesting kit-bash build.   For starts replace Tiger running gear with some kind of larger scale non-German parts.   Hull mods that diminish Tiger identity.   Then there is the rest.   Since have kit maybe get it started later on.....
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 03:22:21 PM by finsrin »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2020, 02:03:21 AM »
I wonder...Self Propelled Howitzer variant anyone?
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Offline Story

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2020, 04:46:44 AM »

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2020, 02:28:46 PM »
Pin image: Can't see it - Denied access.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."