Author Topic: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration  (Read 23763 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« on: February 05, 2012, 11:52:29 AM »
Knolls,

A thread for your German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ( and derivatives) ideas and inspiration.

To start with, what about a SPH based on the Tiger I and mounting either a 15cm or even 17cm gun?

Regards,

Greg
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 01:16:45 PM »
It's actually quite surprising that an SPH wasn't considered given the use of the Elefant and the German propensity for slinging a large gun onto an existing hull.  There was, of course, the Sturmtiger which was sorta like an SPG.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 01:29:48 PM »
A bit like this perhaps:

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 02:37:30 PM »
Looks the part Greg.

Regard,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 10:06:04 AM »
The Grille 17 & 21 (17cm & 21cm guns respectively) were planned to be mounted on a modified King Tiger hull.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 02:33:26 AM »
How about a Tiger tank with it's 88mm gun back in the Anti-aircraft role - maybe a open top set up similar to some of the other anti-aircraft tanks?
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 02:46:06 AM »
How about a Tiger tank with it's 88mm gun back in the Anti-aircraft role - maybe a open top set up similar to some of the other anti-aircraft tanks?

Sounds neat!  How about adding a trailer or another modified tracked vehicle to act as an ammo supply?
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 04:26:16 AM »
I am thinking of an arrangement similar to the 37mm Möbelwagen (see below) but with a 88mm Flak gun mounted on the Tiger.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 07:00:08 AM »
There was a Panther derivative that used an 88mm Flak, but I can't recall either the Tiger or Kingtiger being used as an AA vehicle.  Would be quite a beast, akin to the E-100 Flakpanzer.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2012, 12:47:22 AM »
 Heh. Strange minds whif alike...I picked up a second Hasegawa 1/72 'Tiger. Last model' at the Austin show last fall, and one of the
 nice things about that series of kits is the inclusion of the sprues for the earlier boxings. So I've got a couple of Tiger chassis and
 a pair of 88 barrels. I'm thing about something like the twin flak arrangement of the FlakMaus/E-100, big box around the side-by-side
 gun tubes, sticking out of a slightly modified turret. but I have to finish the Panther VierBeiner* for the GB first... :)



 * means "four-legged." You'll see.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 02:41:27 AM »
but I have to finish the Panther VierBeiner* for the GB first... :)



 * means "four-legged." You'll see.

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 03:03:10 AM »
There was a Panther derivative that used an 88mm Flak


That would be the Grille 10 (see below).  Now imagine that top on a Tiger I hull.




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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 06:35:30 AM »
Greg, that's actually the Versuchsflakwagen (or more properly 8.8cm Flak auf Sonderfahrgestell PzSfl IVc).  The baseline chassis was a heavily modified Pz IV chassis that had started life as a tank destroyer, but redeveloped into a Flakwagen.  I hadn't heard it called a Grille variant though, as they were usually SPGs.

The one I was thinking of was the 8.8cm Flak 41 (Sf) auf Panther Bauteile built by Rheinmetall which had a rotating open turret ontop of a Panther chassis.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 06:46:52 AM »
Greg, that's actually the Versuchsflakwagen (or more properly 8.8cm Flak auf Sonderfahrgestell PzSfl IVc).  The baseline chassis was a heavily modified Pz IV chassis that had started life as a tank destroyer, but redeveloped into a Flakwagen.


Actually the vehicle shown is a Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther" derived vehicle.  Check out the wheel/track layout.  Compare to below:

Panzerkampfwagen V:


Panzerkampfwagen IV:


« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 06:48:47 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 06:55:09 AM »
Supposed Grille 10 variants:

Model:       Armament:                        Chassis / Components:
Grille 10*        88mm Flak 37 L/56 (early)
                     88mm Flak 41 L/75 (late)      Panzer IV / Sd.Kfz.9
Grille 10*        88mm Flak 37/41.                   Panther
Grille 10        100mm K.                           Panther
Grille 10        105mm leFH 43/35.           Panther
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2012, 07:08:29 AM »
Actually the vehicle shown is a Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther" derived vehicle.  Check out the wheel/track layout. 

Greg, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree.  The initial L/56 vehicle was developed by Krupp early in the War (ie: prior to 1940) to knock out bunkers on the Maginot Line.  With the fall of France, they were re-roled as panzerjagers but too lightly armoured to be of use.  In 1942, Krupp proposed turning the vehicle into a Flakwagen.

These dates quite obviously predate the Panther and the vehicle is specifically named Sonderfahrgestell IVc.  One could suggest the wheel system was developed from a Tiger I rather than a Panther which would be more in keeping with the timeline, although the type is described as a modified Pz IV chassis.

Ref: Panzer Tracts No 12.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 10:29:46 AM »
Regardless of what it is or isn't, it doesn't change my suggestion for a Tiger I derived 88mm SPAAG.
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2012, 11:28:54 AM »
I agree totally.  It's quite surprising that schwere Flakwagens or StuGs weren't considered for the Tiger chassis, given the amount of prototype or even paper panzers that are out there.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2012, 02:36:29 PM »
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2012, 01:43:14 AM »
Found this image in the Schiffer Publishing Book on the Tiger I and Tiger II by Horst Schiebert

(Image shared for the purpose of discussion with no infringement intended on copyright)

The rather neat separation of the barrel at that point gives one time to imagine what an infantry support tank based on the Tiger I would look like with a short barrel main gun or howitzer for demolishing bunkers or reducing obstacles during the assault.  All that is missing is a bulldozer blade. 
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2012, 03:34:51 AM »
Indeed.

Mind you, that would have been quite something to see happen...from a suitable distance... ;)
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 12:16:28 AM »
1/35th scale Trumpeter 17cm Kanone 72 auf Geschützwagen Tiger II (Grille II) built by Sebastian Altwasser. 

Click on html or image to view article.

A nice shot of the Grille I and Grille II to give you an idea of size. 

(Image source: Sebastian Altwasser/Modellversium.de)
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 04:48:04 PM »
What about a Jagdpanzer or Stug derived from a Tiger I?
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Re: German Tiger I and Tiger II tank ideas and inspiration
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2012, 05:01:49 AM »
 Hmmm. You could argue that the SturmMorser Tiger, with that great honking rocket-gun was a
 Stug, but the all but ignored 105 mm Flak 38 might be a possible gun for the JagdTiger I. I see
 its supposed to have had about the same performance as the 88, but surely it would have
 lobbed a more effective HE round...Alas, very under represented in all scales, though I remember
 Fujimi made one in 1/76 back in the 'seventies.