Author Topic: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 22261 times)

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Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« on: February 04, 2012, 11:37:38 AM »
Hi folks,

A thread for your Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration.

To start with, here is one that I did a while back:



By the way, it is now a tail dragger.
Regards,

Greg
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 11:40:59 AM »
And now some based upon actual original P-38 concepts:


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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 11:42:53 AM »
I remember seeing an asymetric P-38 modelled and the individual concerned used the other boom to create a drone which were both quite cool.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 11:46:17 AM »
RR Griffon engined with turbocharger:



And with Supercharger:

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 03:01:58 PM »
Hmm, combine the Griffon-engined with superchargers version with leading edge radiators and intercoolers and the extended "Lightning Swordfish" center nacelle and you'd have an advanced version of what I've read Kelly Johnson considered to be the ultimate P-38.

As an alternate thought, take one of the radial-engined derivatives proposed to the US Navy and replace the original engines with R2800s or R3350s.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 08:13:00 PM »
The P-38 with contraprops has long been on my "to do" list.

So has a P-38 with Bristol Centaurus engines and five blade props.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 08:13:32 PM »
The radial version, XFV-1 Trident,  was nicely done in 1/48 here: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6580
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 02:44:59 AM »
Hmm, combine the Griffon-engined with superchargers version with leading edge radiators and intercoolers and the extended "Lightning Swordfish" center nacelle and you'd have an advanced version of what I've read Kelly Johnson considered to be the ultimate P-38.


I had thought of that but for expediency I left the radiators where the existing radiators were.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 02:47:09 AM »
Original P-38 concepts:

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 02:50:11 AM »
P-38 Torpedo Carrier:

« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 02:56:37 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2012, 02:51:50 AM »
P-38 75mm gun proposal:





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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2012, 05:52:13 AM »
That 75mm bird and the Griffon-engined ones make me think about a seriously "Britishified" Lightning: Griffons or Merlin engines and the guns and cockpit swapped around to something more like the Meteor/Hornet arrangment, where the cockpit is right in the nose with the gun barrels under the floor and the magazines behind it.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2012, 05:57:14 AM »
Switching the four Browning .50" machine guns out for an equal number of 20mm cannons would be a simple yet subtle modification that would be hard to spot. 
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2012, 06:47:12 AM »
The radial version, XFV-1 Trident,  was nicely done in 1/48 here: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6580

Beautiful piece of work but he used the F5F-1's engines rather than the R2800s I suggested.  It'd make for a larger cowl, but more capability.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2012, 06:54:59 AM »
Switching the four Browning .50" machine guns out for an equal number of 20mm cannons would be a simple yet subtle modification that would be hard to spot.

For something more obvious, maybe switch a Westland Whirlwind nose in.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2012, 02:09:01 PM »
Splendid P-38 drawings.  For first P-38 I am thinking it breaks new ground in terminology.  "Reverse Tricycle" would be more descriptive than tail dragger where draggy tail is close to ground.  Would also be unique in having rear wheel steering when taxiing.  That will be a new pilot skill to learn.  To my recollection it is first ever reverse tricycle rear steer airplane.
Bill

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2012, 05:22:29 PM »
The rear wheel would only be a small one with a shortish strut so it would be more like a conventional tail dragger.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 01:51:27 AM »


Two R-1535 Twin Wasp Jr.
Span: 54 ft
Length: 34 ft 6 in
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2012, 03:54:47 AM »
Funky looking engine cowlings.  I've a suspicion it would've been found underpowered with only R1535s.  On the other hand, it would give a starting place for developments with larger engines.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2012, 12:45:42 PM »
... it would give a starting place for developments with larger engines.

Yep, like the 21-cylinder R-2300 Triple Wasp Jr.   ;D
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2012, 05:14:36 AM »
Possible inspiration for Soviet or even Finnish P-38s:

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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 11:31:05 AM »
A Finn Lightning.    That's cool for every P-38 model.   
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2012, 12:40:00 PM »
Shortly before the Korean war started the U.S. in a shortsighted stupid "peace" jesture bulldozed a lot of P-38L Lightnings into scrap.
Like to have seen what kind showing the P-38L made for itself in those desperate early months of the war.  And later on too.
Bill
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 05:17:42 AM by finsrin »

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 11:39:56 AM »
I may try to add your new versions on my site http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/#Sit (with a thousand different Lightnings). Alas, I discover this topic today, and the weekend is finished.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 11:47:13 AM »
Possible inspiration for Soviet or even Finnish P-38s:



ISTR that there was a companion study done of a tracked landing gear for the P-38 as was studied on other aircraft.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2012, 06:22:48 AM »
Random ideas:

Twin turbo-prop P-38 maybe ala Piper PA-48 Enforcer?

High Altitude with extended wingtips and other mods and perhaps a large camera(s) in an extended nose?
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2012, 12:16:54 PM »
Maybe Kit (of PR_19Kit fame) will tell us how to increase span for this P-38. He is the expert for that. He registered but failed to login. I told him he mistyped in PT_19Kit and I hope he will come and enjoy here too...

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2012, 05:52:40 PM »
Thanks Tophe, at last I've managed to get in here.  :)

A P-38 isn't the best candidate for increased span actually. The problem is that the wing planform is markedly tapered already and you can't increase the span much more than what it is before the chord decreases to zero. I ran into a similar problem when increasing the span of my Wellesely BPRIII, and could only add a couple of inches on each side. The Welleseley is a bigger aircraft of course but the P-38 has similarly tapered wings. You'd probably get away with adding an inch on each side but that'd be about it with conventional methods.

On the other hand....  ;)

You could change the taper ouboard of the engines, and it wouldn't look too bad perhaps. Changing the overall taper, from the cockpit pod outward, would be quite difficult I'd venture to suggest, but then we're all Master Modellers here of course.....  :)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 06:01:54 PM by PR19_Kit »
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2012, 11:49:02 PM »
Kit, what is almost impossible in plastic is easy as drawing... Here is the KP-38 Kitning:

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2012, 02:40:23 AM »
All RIGHT!  :)

LOVE the conventional long span one Tophe. Luckily I don't have any unstarted P-38 kits to hand or I'd have the box open already!
Regards
Kit

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2012, 02:57:16 AM »
Hi Kit, you made it --- nice to see you here.

Anyway, what if you took the wings from a U2, join them together then graft all the P-38 nacelles onto it -- or even use parts from the XP-58 Chain Lightning
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 02:59:23 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2012, 03:25:53 AM »

On the other hand....  ;)

You could change the taper ouboard of the engines, and it wouldn't look too bad perhaps.

I think that would be the best way.  Cut off the existing wings at the outside edge of the nacelles/booms and then fit all new longer wings.

BTW, great to have you here and thanks for Tophe for helping out...I guess the right bait was the long span wings...
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2012, 03:27:49 AM »
Moving away form the long span P-38 for a bit, here is something different I did:

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2012, 07:43:22 AM »
I guess the right bait was the long span wings...

Greg,

Could well be right there.  :)

Robert,

The U-2 wing idea may work, yes. I'd need to check some plastic to see if it would for real. Sadly I don't have an unbuilr P-38 in The Loft.

LOADS of U-2s of course........  :)
Regards
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2012, 07:50:37 AM »
Moving away form the long span P-38 for a bit, here is something different I did:




I think all you need to do is lose the side radiator pods and you got it Greg    :)

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2012, 10:16:59 AM »
Which radials?   These look a lot better than the F6F cowlings someone used a number of years back.   
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2012, 10:46:08 AM »
Moving away form the long span P-38 for a bit, here is something different I did:




I think all you need to do is lose the side radiator pods and you got it Greg    :)

Thin them but not eliminate them.  You still need provisions for the oil coolers and the turbocharger intercoolers.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2012, 11:34:46 PM »
One with jets......   ;)


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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2012, 11:53:16 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ???

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2012, 01:34:25 AM »
nice idea :)  Can we have another pic from a better angle ?

How about doing another one with the booms more inboard - coming off the tops of the engine pods ?

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2012, 03:52:54 AM »
 :)
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2012, 07:16:22 AM »
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2012, 08:33:39 PM »
nice idea :)  Can we have another pic from a better angle ?



Here you go.


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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2012, 03:31:41 AM »
Which radials?   These look a lot better than the F6F cowlings someone used a number of years back.   

Oops...my bad for not answering earlier!!!  :(

They are actually Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp radial...from a XF4U-1
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2012, 07:53:06 AM »
No worries.   Thanks.   :)
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2012, 07:20:44 AM »
Random idea:  P-38 as basis for modern UAV.  Pod provides area for recon equipment.  Change engines...
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2012, 07:50:12 AM »
That is a splendid build.  :)  :-*
Obviously built with much forethought.
Tossing in some F-138 pictures.  Built with minimal forethought.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2013, 04:51:46 AM »
Dana Bell has shared some images of a Lockheed P-38 Lightning Droop Snoot at HyperScale and several of the images show in rather good detail the inside of the bombardier's compartment plus the stores pylons that were added to the wings.  Certainly worth saving for later review. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 01:47:09 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2013, 09:41:35 AM »
Funky looking engine cowlings.  I've a suspicion it would've been found underpowered with only R1535s.  On the other hand, it would give a starting place for developments with larger engines.
Which radials?
They are actually Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp radial...from a XF4U-1

elmayerle, I have an awful sense of scale, so I'd greatly appreciate your opinion as to if PW's R-2800 Double Wasp might indeed work out for the Model 24 evolution...... or would I need another radial?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 09:48:49 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2013, 10:45:05 AM »
They'd probably work, but you'd need a tight cowling and need to take into account oil coolers.  If you keep the turbocharges in addition to whatever superchargers are on the engine, you should have quite an aircraft.  I would suggest the F4U or F8F as sources for the engines and cowlings, though I'm thinking that inverting the F8F cowling would better fit the P-38's lines.  If you can do a good fairing fro the firewall aft, using the engines and cowlings of the P-61 might well work.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 12:27:50 PM by elmayerle »

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2013, 12:28:57 AM »
The R-1535 series had a diameter of just over 44 inches, the diameter of the R-2800 series varied from
52 inches up to 53 inches.
Installed length of the R-1535 series varied from 53.25 inches up to 55 inches. Installed length of
the R-2800 series varied from around 75 inches up to over 100, depending on supercharger set up, etc.

So a diameter increase of 8 to 9 inches and a length increase of at least 22 inches.

From an appearance standpoint, the F7F would probably be the best basis for how to cowl the R-2800 on a developed Model 24.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2013, 11:12:41 AM »
For a different approach, how about F-80 or T-33 style tip tanks?  For that matter, I still think the stretched center nacelle of the "Lightning Swordfish" testbed would look good  with a radar nose and the canopy from the T-33.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2013, 08:56:07 PM »
"Lightning Swordfish" testbed

What's that Evan ?  I can't find anything about it ---  and it sounds very interesting

Edit: D'oh!  now I did --   :-X
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 09:00:58 PM by kitnut617 »

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2013, 10:31:06 PM »
 I remember hearing about it, and seeing a picture of a rather unusual wing plan - turns out it
 was a laminir-flow test bed...

 Swordfish

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2013, 11:07:24 PM »
For a different approach, how about F-80 or T-33 style tip tanks?  For that matter, I still think the stretched center nacelle of the "Lightning Swordfish" testbed would look good  with a radar nose and the canopy from the T-33.


Like this?


The downside of this one is the lack of visibility the turboprops cause. I should have moved the cockpit forwards and up. Oh well.

Alvis 3.1

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2013, 12:10:49 AM »
I remember hearing about it, and seeing a picture of a rather unusual wing plan - turns out it
 was a laminir-flow test bed...

 Swordfish

Well, actually the laminar-flow test was a cab-on over the basic P-38 wing.  The ""Swordfish" started out as a P-38 with a stretched center nacelle.  I understand that the improved fineness ratio actually helped performance a bit.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2013, 01:41:46 AM »
For a different approach, how about F-80 or T-33 style tip tanks?  For that matter, I still think the stretched center nacelle of the "Lightning Swordfish" testbed would look good  with a radar nose and the canopy from the T-33.


Like this?


The downside of this one is the lack of visibility the turboprops cause. I should have moved the cockpit forwards and up. Oh well.

Alvis 3.1

The stretch I was thinking of involved the crew nacelle, not the engines, but the relocated cockpit of the "Swordfish" would help with visibility in this case.  Of course, for really good visibility, you could put the pilot where the student pilot sat in the trainers the Italians converted; the student sat right above the nose landing gear trunnion and I'm sure this encouraged smooth landings.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 07:35:29 AM by elmayerle »

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2013, 04:54:57 AM »
Now that's motivation!  ;)
Something that was nice when I was scratching this beast up was that the T-33 fuselage pretty much dropped right onto the P-38 pod without much effort. Seems the basic shape was pretty close. Coming from the same company, I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was.
Stretching the pod should then be faily easy, merely use a donor T-33! :)

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2013, 05:09:04 AM »

The downside of this one is the lack of visibility the turboprops cause. I should have moved the cockpit forwards and up. Oh well.

Alvis 3.1

I think I might have a go at this, using this when it becomes available --

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SW72072

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2013, 07:37:54 AM »

The downside of this one is the lack of visibility the turboprops cause. I should have moved the cockpit forwards and up. Oh well.

Alvis 3.1

I think I might have a go at this, using this when it becomes available --

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SW72072
Damn!!  I just got an old Formaplane vac-form of that on eBay.  Ah, well, more opportunity to cross the vacform with, say, a F-84C.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2013, 09:57:53 AM »

The downside of this one is the lack of visibility the turboprops cause. I should have moved the cockpit forwards and up. Oh well.

Alvis 3.1

I think I might have a go at this, using this when it becomes available --

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SW72072
Damn!!  I just got an old Formaplane vac-form of that on eBay.  Ah, well, more opportunity to cross the vacform with, say, a F-84C.

I did as well a few months ago.  Bugger.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2013, 10:01:33 AM »
*shrug* SO, what do  you do?  Me, I'm going after a F-94C to do a cross with.  The early-model ones without the mid-span rocket pods are cheaper, though I might also grab a Heller F-94B for the mid-span gun pods.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2013, 10:54:33 AM »
I'll just build it anyway and get a Sword kit or two as well, anyway.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2013, 08:10:56 PM »

The downside of this one is the lack of visibility the turboprops cause. I should have moved the cockpit forwards and up. Oh well.

Alvis 3.1

I think I might have a go at this, using this when it becomes available --

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SW72072
Damn!!  I just got an old Formaplane vac-form of that on eBay.  Ah, well, more opportunity to cross the vacform with, say, a F-84C.

I did as well a few months ago.  Bugger.

I know the feeling, I had hunted for ages to find a Griffin vacuform kit of it and found one a year or so ago.  It might get used instead and I'll just build the Sword one OOB.

EDIT:  at Hannants right now and just ordered one.  I had the item in my 'Watch' list and an email arrived this morning saying it was on the shelf now, along with the Harrier T.2 and T.4 which I also ordered ----  ;)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:08:38 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2013, 09:25:05 PM »
Alvis, just stick a camera pod on the belly ...visibility problem solved.


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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2013, 12:17:15 AM »
Well, it took 20 years to complete the Turbo/Super Lightning. Now I'll have to start over again, this time using the SeaStar as the cockpit section. I'll let y'all know in 2033 if I ever got it done! :o


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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2013, 12:41:55 AM »
Who cares visibility? the point is coolness.

Absolutely COOL. :-*

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2013, 03:26:20 AM »
Random Idea:  P-38 with prone pilot.  In other words, take a droop snoot P-38 (see below) and remove the standard cockpit altogether.  Maybe give the now prone pilot a periscopic sight (ala the Ar234) to see behind.  Maybe say this is a high speed recon version.

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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2013, 12:09:04 AM »
Quick question - how different externally are the P-38J and P-38L (in terms of what would be noticeable in 1/72)?
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2013, 03:50:47 AM »
I don't think there was much externally different between the pair...at leat visual and especially in 1/72 scale.  Others may know more here though.

About the only thing I can think of is that the "L" was the first to use zero-length rocket launchers...though that is only an issue if you fit such.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2013, 04:07:31 AM »
The biggies for the 'L compared with the 'J were:

- Port wing leading edge landing light (retractable underwing light on 'Js).

- Mid-chord dive recovery flaps

- Underwing fuel pump fairing (for revised fuel tankage).
http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/Revell/P-38J/p38eaam3.jpg

- 'Christmas Tree' zero-length rocket launcher the Greg mentioned
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/P-38/38rocketClus.gif

- AN/APS-13 (SCR 718) tail warning radar (3-pronged antenna, starboard tail fin.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2013, 04:09:05 AM »


Two R-1535 Twin Wasp Jr.
Span: 54 ft
Length: 34 ft 6 in


I was thinking about this version and I was wondering how well it would have handled itself during shipboard landings?  The tail hook would had to have gone at the end of the fuselage, IE about the middle of the plane.  That alone makes me think it would have issues.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6580
The builder of this one indicates it would have had serious arrested landing issues as well but I have no idea whether his conclusions are based at all on facts or just fiction.

Thoughts?

Would the slightly upturned tail booms on the proposed float plane version have helped at all maybe?  Seems like it would need an awfully long hook and have to come in at a relatively shallow angle VS other carrier aircraft; problems???

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2013, 07:48:35 AM »
SAAF, RAAF, and RNZAF Lightnings.
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Offline kengeorge

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2013, 08:51:09 AM »
Regarding the carrier Lightning.
How about extending the rear of the cockpit nacelle, say 5-6ft or so, or in line with the radiator ducts, allowing either an extended hook, so, the angle between hook & deck is lessened along with any stresses, or shift the hook further back so the hinge line is behind the cockpit & attached to the bulkhead & covered by a fairing?

Does that help?

Ken...


Offline Volkodav

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: August 05, 2013, 09:38:26 AM »
SAAF, RAAF, and RNZAF Lightnings.


The RAAF actually was an operator
http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lightning/75sqn.htm

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a55.shtml

Although a total of five doesn't really count

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2013, 10:19:39 AM »
If the Sea Venom and Sea Vixen could manage to land on carriers despite having a twin-boom layout then I don't see that a "Sea Lightning" should have any inherent problems.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2013, 11:34:45 AM »
SAAF, RAAF, and RNZAF Lightnings.
The RAAF actually was an operator
http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lightning/75sqn.htm

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a55.shtml

Although a total of five doesn't really count
Thanks for setting me straight.  That was five more than I was aware of.  :)

If the Sea Venom and Sea Vixen could manage to land on carriers despite having a twin-boom layout then I don't see that a "Sea Lightning" should have any inherent problems.

The Sea Venom fuselage would not look out of place replacing the same parts on a P-38 Lightning. 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 11:37:19 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2013, 11:34:58 AM »
Forward visibility would be good, the big issue I perceive is the crash barrier, no prop in front of the pilot to catch the barrier wires

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2013, 12:22:58 PM »
I think vision over the nose might actually be a bit of a problem.  The P-38's cockpit is actually pretty low set and far back on the central nacelle.  Wouldn't be as a bad as a Corsair but might need a raised seat to work.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: August 18, 2013, 12:29:22 PM »
SAAF, RAAF, and RNZAF Lightnings.


The RAAF actually was an operator
http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lightning/75sqn.htm

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a55.shtml

Although a total of five doesn't really count


Red Roo actually do a 1/48 conversion for these:

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2013, 12:50:28 PM »
I think vision over the nose might actually be a bit of a problem.  The P-38's cockpit is actually pretty low set and far back on the central nacelle.  Wouldn't be as a bad as a Corsair but might need a raised seat to work.

Perhaps with the extended center nacelle and forward cockpit position of Lockheed's test "Swordfish" Lightning?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2013, 01:18:32 PM »
OK, I haven't looked through this entire thread so I don't know if this has been mooted or not but...

For a naval P-38 (P-38N/F38F-1?), why not keep the basic airframe layout but move the cockpit forward in the centre nacelle & the guns back, set in farings similar to the B-25 & B-26? Not sure how many guns could be fitted but I'm guessing either 4 or 6, including 2 x 20mm.

It would give excellent visibility over the nose, considerably better side vision, possibly a slightly woozy flight for the pilot (being further from the CG) & not look quite as pretty.

:)

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2013, 02:03:06 PM »
I think vision over the nose might actually be a bit of a problem.  The P-38's cockpit is actually pretty low set and far back on the central nacelle.  Wouldn't be as a bad as a Corsair but might need a raised seat to work.

Perhaps with the extended center nacelle and forward cockpit position of Lockheed's test "Swordfish" Lightning?

Had to go and look that up.  Yes, that'd work and as a twin seater you could have a navigator and use it for long range strikes.  I could envision the RN FAA being particularly interested as it would tick their boxes.  The forward cockpit position would be excellent for landing on.

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2013, 03:11:31 PM »
Basically make the P-38 a "Baby Black Widow"? LOL It could work...

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2013, 03:18:07 PM »
I do like the Swordfish Lightning:


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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2013, 05:05:44 PM »
The Swordfish Lightning has that degree of fineness about it which transforms the IMO "dumpy" P-38 into something quite good looking.

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: August 19, 2013, 01:29:33 AM »
I agree Rick  8)

That rear seat and canopy arrangement just screams for a rear-seat gunner IMO!
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2013, 04:28:33 AM »
Have a laugh:

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2013, 05:10:49 AM »
That looks like Tophe's work............  ;) :)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2013, 05:41:48 AM »
OK, I haven't looked through this entire thread so I don't know if this has been mooted or not but...

For a naval P-38 (P-38N/F38F-1?), why not keep the basic airframe layout but move the cockpit forward in the centre nacelle & the guns back, set in farings similar to the B-25 & B-26? Not sure how many guns could be fitted but I'm guessing either 4 or 6, including 2 x 20mm.

It would give excellent visibility over the nose, considerably better side vision, possibly a slightly woozy flight for the pilot (being further from the CG) & not look quite as pretty.
Cockpit forward puts the pilot over the nose landing gear turnnion, much like the student pilot position on the two-seat trainers the Italians modified late in WW II or soon there-after.  It would teach one very smooth landings.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 02:34:40 PM by elmayerle »

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2013, 05:44:16 AM »
I haven't quite got the complete mental picture of it yet but hope someday to build up the Academy F-5 as a Lightning-meets-Burt Rutan and serves with the CIA.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline finsrin

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2013, 11:37:08 AM »
Six engine P-38  :-*
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2013, 01:43:07 PM »
That looks like Tophe's work............  ;) :)
Exactly what I was thinking

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: December 26, 2013, 01:04:19 PM »
I DO love this conventional twin


Offline finsrin

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: December 26, 2013, 02:53:33 PM »
I DO love this conventional twin


Me too  :-*

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2013, 02:41:41 AM »
Single boom twin tail P-38


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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2013, 03:58:34 AM »
I DO love this conventional twin




I like!
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: December 27, 2013, 06:17:36 AM »
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2015, 05:59:15 AM »
Images of the floatplane proposal:



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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2016, 10:23:32 AM »
Odd thought - Late model P-38 re-equipped Allisons and four-bladed props from F-82.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #100 on: June 26, 2016, 12:17:53 AM »
Odd thought - Late model P-38 re-equipped Allisons and four-bladed props from F-82.

I had thought about that too Evan, as I'll have a bunch of Allison F-82 nacelles spare when I convert a couple of F-82's to have Merlin nacelles

Offline dy031101

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #101 on: February 10, 2017, 11:50:41 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1716995274981032&set=gm.1883154991899997&type=3&theater

Didn't know ROCAF had one of those (fighter version, not recon), too......
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #102 on: February 11, 2017, 07:15:20 AM »
I always wondered why Lockheed or the USAAC/USAAF never bothered to mount just 20mm cannons or an all .50"BMG main battery on the P-38.  With different ballistics between the 20mm and .50"BMG it never made sense to me as to why they (USAAF/USAAC) kept that suite of weapons for the P-38 when it would make more sense to have a P-38 armed with five (or six) .50" BMG or a quartet of 20mm weapons. 

Something I have been toying with over the years is an all .50" BMG battery or an all 20mm main battery for the P-38.  While there may not be room for a quartet of 20mm cannons it would still be a viable option with three 20mm cannons or five .50" BMG machine guns.  Either weapons suite would and could do well with destroying pretty much anything that flew or moved on the ground or sea.  Add in the 4.5"/114mm FFAR or the 5.0"/127mm HVAR weapons under the wings and fuselage and you have a very potent ground attack aircraft. 
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #103 on: February 11, 2017, 07:18:23 AM »
I always wondered why Lockheed or the USAAC/USAAF never bothered to mount just 20mm cannons or an all .50"BMG main battery on the P-38.  With different ballistics between the 20mm and .50"BMG it never made sense to me as to why they (USAAF/USAAC) kept that suite of weapons for the P-38 when it would make more sense to have a P-38 armed with five (or six) .50" BMG or a quartet of 20mm weapons. 

Something I have been toying with over the years is an all .50" BMG battery or an all 20mm main battery for the P-38.  While there may not be room for a quartet of 20mm cannons it would still be a viable option with three 20mm cannons or five .50" BMG machine guns.  Either weapons suite would and could do well with destroying pretty much anything that flew or moved on the ground or sea.  Add in the 4.5"/114mm FFAR or the 5.0"/127mm HVAR weapons under the wings and fuselage and you have a very potent ground attack aircraft.
Perfect use for the airframes without turbochargers?

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2017, 07:39:07 AM »
I always wondered why Lockheed or the USAAC/USAAF never bothered to mount just 20mm cannons or an all .50"BMG main battery on the P-38.  With different ballistics between the 20mm and .50"BMG it never made sense to me as to why they (USAAF/USAAC) kept that suite of weapons for the P-38 when it would make more sense to have a P-38 armed with five (or six) .50" BMG or a quartet of 20mm weapons. 

Something I have been toying with over the years is an all .50" BMG battery or an all 20mm main battery for the P-38.  While there may not be room for a quartet of 20mm cannons it would still be a viable option with three 20mm cannons or five .50" BMG machine guns.  Either weapons suite would and could do well with destroying pretty much anything that flew or moved on the ground or sea.  Add in the 4.5"/114mm FFAR or the 5.0"/127mm HVAR weapons under the wings and fuselage and you have a very potent ground attack aircraft.
Perfect use for the airframes without turbochargers?

Or keep the turbocharger units for the interceptor version and lose the same for the dedicated ground attack version?  Removing the turbochargers from the dedicated ground attack version is sound but why not replace that system with an engine driven supercharger unit?  I suppose that would increase the length forward of the wings on the engine nacelles but a small price to pay for losing the intercooler units on the booms when the turbochargers are removed.  Robert's suggestion for using the F-82 propellers sounds like a great idea.  If I recall correctly, the P-38 was tested with Hamilton Standard three-blade propellers but the difference in thrust lines between the Curtiss propellers and the HS propellers would have required some modifications to the airframe and engine nacelles to allow the HS propellers to perform properly.  Kind of disappointing when things like aerodynamics get in the way of a sensible modification that would have give the P-38 a marked improvement in performance.   
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #105 on: February 11, 2017, 08:05:34 AM »
Because it was conceived as a 'bomber interceptor', the cannon was for the bombers,
the MGs for potential escorts.

Multiple M2s are fine against fighters, not so good against larger, probably armoured
bombers, if the USAAF had ever faced a massed bomber threat, they would have
switched to a multi-cannon armament.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #106 on: February 12, 2017, 04:16:04 AM »
There was this "Six Shooter" version with two 20mm canon:

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2018, 04:33:11 AM »
Random thought:  P-38 as turret fighter with turrets at front and rear(?) of central pod.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2018, 11:10:57 AM »
Random thought:  P-38 as turret fighter with turrets at front and rear(?) of central pod.
Front turret on bottom and rear turret on top?  That would preserve the pilot's sight line for landing.  You would probably need a longer center pod to add the one or two extra gunners required.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2018, 07:56:37 PM »
Random thought:  P-38 as turret fighter with turrets at front and rear(?) of central pod.
Front turret on bottom and rear turret on top?  That would preserve the pilot's sight line for landing.  You would probably need a longer center pod to add the one or two extra gunners required.

P-58   ???

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2018, 01:30:50 AM »
I was thinking of the turrets being right on the front/rear of the pod (though the pod will obviously need to be enlarged to accommodate).  Ideally it would involve something akin to ERCO 250SH ones such as that shown below:



Or perhaps something bigger such as the Emerson Aero 9B turret with 20mm cannon:



Either way, I was looking for a twist on the turret fighter concept.  I was thinking something twin engined with twin turrets.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 01:35:43 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2018, 01:40:54 AM »
Personally, I would go for the Emerson style one, more streamlined for a fighter I think ---  But even then I still think you'd need something like the P-58 because of it's size, the P-38 is a bit small -- and something would have to be done about the tailplane on either of them to have a turret right at the rear of the fuselage pod.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 01:44:02 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2018, 02:00:42 PM »
Way too small a pod for manned turrets, hell the droopsnoot version was
a cramped hell for the poor putz who had to ride there.

Elevating guns and/or rotating nose arrangements would possibly fit, and make as little sense as
they did when tried later. 
;D

One was proposed and a partial installation trialed on a P-80.

F-89 arrangement. Friggin’ moronic.  ;D  :-\


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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #113 on: May 04, 2018, 01:45:55 AM »
Actually a similar arrangement on the P-38 (possibly as a test bed) would be interesting.
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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #114 on: May 04, 2018, 07:18:17 AM »
Actually a similar arrangement on the P-38 (possibly as a test bed) would be interesting.
Perhaps using the Lightning "Swordfish" as the testbed?  That longer center nacelle could help.

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Re: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #115 on: May 04, 2018, 09:21:01 AM »
F-80 elevating nose gun test aircraft.

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And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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