Author Topic: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers  (Read 3612 times)

Offline Tophe

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Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« on: June 01, 2017, 11:45:03 AM »
Many Mustang racers have wined Reno races but they were just shy little improvements, let us go further, much further. With 4 Griffon engines the Super-Mustang (nicknamed P-51T4 as if it was military) broke the average 1,000 km/h speed limit (622mph) in level flight.



« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 11:55:29 AM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 11:54:07 AM »
The Lightning contenders at Reno are less known, but the Super-Lightning (with 4 engines) was improved again and again to increase speed (with less maneuverability, lift, view, comfort…): RN-38A, B, C:

Offline AXOR

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 06:41:28 PM »
P-38 with long noses...definitely changes its appearance,C version is perfect!
Great entrance Cristophe.
Alex

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 12:30:51 AM »
Thanks!

C version is perfect!
if you like micro canopy, this can be installed on Super-Mustang also (with fin removal to decrease drag):

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 12:36:39 PM »
The Lightning contenders at Reno are less known, but
There were also Lighting race cars (built from Lightning aircraft parts), but both single-engined and twin-engined versions were refused at Daytona race:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 12:51:51 PM »
PS. The elevator is useful on the Lightning race cars: at high speed, moving the elevator makes the rear wheels take of, for a unique 2-wheels (lateral) layout. This would have wined (if authorised)...

Offline apophenia

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2017, 03:04:05 AM »
Love the Lightning race cars but its hard to out-do your four-Griffon Super-Mustang  :-*
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2017, 05:41:48 PM »
Thanks!

And following GTX great suggestions at http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7239.0 here are other ways of designing a Super-Lightning racer: Victor Archer’s way, a prone pilot, or both combined:


Offline AXOR

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2017, 06:18:34 PM »
Alex

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 02:15:22 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 12:38:46 AM »
Thanks!
And you probably know that in-line engine lack power: over-powered radial may be preferred, like on the GeeBee old racer. Here are the GB-38R-1/2/3 GeeBeeNing racers:

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2017, 01:44:13 AM »
You need to do a Twin-GeeBee racer Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2017, 02:07:56 AM »
You need to do a Twin-GeeBee racer Tophe

Agreed.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2017, 12:56:28 PM »
Thanks!
A long time ago, I drew this:

But now I will have to create Lightning versions of this, for this special topic.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2017, 01:42:31 PM »
Here are them: GB-38G-1/2/3:

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2017, 05:28:12 PM »
Well done !   :) :) :)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2017, 01:00:47 AM »
Thanks!
But you know: over power is also possible with in-line engines, multiplying them, as 6 or 8 engines seem allowed in unlimited race:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2017, 01:23:56 AM »
With 16 and 20 engines, the RN-38Z and Z-2 were transsonic single-seaters:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2017, 02:17:07 AM »
From http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7239.0
Let's not forget about the Schnieder cup...


Thanks, good idea, racer seaplanes...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2017, 11:44:25 AM »
For the Schneider Cup 1945, the jet engines were not (yet?) forbidden...:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2017, 01:03:20 PM »
Back to landplanes, a true Unlimited race would feature
- the turbofan Super-Lightning, above 1000km/h
- the rocket Super-Lightning, above Mach 1
- the twin-rocket Super-Lightning, above Mach 3...

Offline ericr

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2017, 02:54:09 PM »

Offline AXOR

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2017, 07:25:00 PM »
race seaplanes
Alex

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2017, 12:45:14 AM »
Thanks!
And among seaplanes, zwilling (twinning) them makes twin-hull flying boats, while... as I remove one cockpit to keep a single-seat racer layout, does it still count as twin-hull (or else asymmetric hull+float)?

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2017, 01:36:51 AM »
In the same family were designs with less megalomania:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2017, 02:32:19 AM »
On the other side, the top of megalomania was a triplane Super-Lightning with 60 engines (no matter drag, power will win, fast!):

Offline ericr

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2017, 03:31:22 AM »


Aaaarghhhh  :o

 ;D

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2017, 02:37:48 PM »
Sorry for the pain in your brains...

Now let us be serious: do you know the 3-engined single-seat Twin-SuperMustang racer?

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2017, 04:18:13 PM »
There were related F-38/3e, in several versions, faster and faster:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2017, 01:36:26 AM »
Very improved Mustang racer:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2017, 03:38:03 PM »
The Tandem Wing Super Mustang (TW-SM) was the winner of Reno 2021, do you remember?

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2017, 05:07:45 PM »
Oh yes I remember it like it was yesterday tomorrow!

Great stuff, mon ami! I especially like the way you placed that engine up on the tail.

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2017, 04:20:32 AM »
Your Tandem Wing Super Mustang (TW-SM) is fantastic (in all senses!) but the Twin-SuperMustang is verrry clever  :D
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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2017, 05:26:23 PM »
Mmm...the Very improved Mustang racer may look really cool in 3D :-*

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2017, 07:10:51 PM »
Thanks!

And the Italian Mustang racers were trimotore or cinquemotore:

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 06:26:00 AM »
That trimotor Mustang could be passed off as an actual design study!

Love the five engine one too!

Great stuff, mon ami!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2017, 03:59:03 PM »
Thanks!

And the P-51R-4360 was fast too, but the problems in weight centering and torque needed improvement, I will show you other steps.

Offline AXOR

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2017, 07:46:24 PM »
Nice. :)
For the last one you could make a smaller canopy ... but not very small  ;) or a stremlined canopy
Alex

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2017, 10:04:06 PM »
Thanks!
Yes, the final one will have a smaller canopy, but first the problem was to deal with torque from this huge engine/propeller:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2017, 10:24:08 PM »
I think here are the final versions, with small canopy, no torque problem nor centering issue (using nose wheel):

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2017, 05:48:03 AM »
Smashing idea going with contra-props on the P51R 4360-3, mon ami!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2017, 11:12:11 PM »
Thanks!
And for the unlimited class race, there was the Super-Ramjet-Mustang:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2017, 11:21:32 AM »
The Super-Ramjet-Lightning was better maybe, with 2 piston engines to reach the ramjet ignition speed:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2017, 10:53:11 PM »
As visibility was not a problem for a racer, pusher Lightning canards were good candidates for Reno.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2017, 03:20:23 AM »
Your imagination is brighter that the flash of chrome at race day, mon ami!

It never crossed my mind to mount P-38 booms backwards and turn the tail into canards.

Outstanding Concept!

Brian da Basher

Offline AXOR

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2017, 07:28:18 AM »
 :) yes
Alex

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2017, 12:43:37 PM »
Thanks!
And, inspired by AXOR's Do-335 racer with 2 double engines, here is the Racer-Twin-Boom-51... Thanks!

Offline AXOR

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2017, 07:31:03 PM »
That's nice Cristophe  :)
Alex

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2017, 12:55:07 AM »
Thanks!

The NVBS-38A, B, C racers (the code means No Visibility But Speed)

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2017, 07:51:22 AM »
You always have such wonderfully imaginative and delightful concepts, mon ami!

It's a highlight of my day to see you post something new!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2017, 09:38:36 PM »
Thanks a lot!
Now the PP-38W-1/2/3, which means Prone Pilot Winner (of Reno race, where jet is forbidden).

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2017, 11:13:31 PM »
The jets were so fast, it became difficult for Reno organizers to justify their refusal of any jets. So regulations were changed into a Reno-2 trophy, for aircraft with a propeller (but not necessary only-propeller). Alas competitors went from combined power to almost full jet and all was cancelled...

Offline AXOR

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2017, 11:57:49 PM »
 :) nice family !
Alex

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2017, 11:10:18 AM »
Thanks!

Additional engines on pylons increased the speed of the normal Lightning, but decreased its range (because, you know what? Engines are powerful but selfish animals, drinking fuel no matter if the other ones need it).

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2017, 04:19:04 PM »
Reduced drag Lightnings: from the fighter to the racer:

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2017, 10:15:29 PM »
Looks like you're channeling Blohm & Voss with your latest P-38 racer concepts, Tophe!

Great stuff and yet more proof of your enviably boundless imagination!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2017, 11:55:34 AM »
Thanks!

It seems a brand new Twin-Mustang-like racer was proposed in 2017.
See http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=22647&d=1489285610
Or the text at http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?13196-Twin-Fuselage-Racer
I include a what-if version of mine:


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Re: Super-Lightning & Super-Mustang racers
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2017, 02:25:17 AM »
This reminds me of the Pond Racer:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!