Author Topic: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject  (Read 3958 times)

Offline Tophe

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P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« on: October 01, 2016, 10:50:03 AM »
My collection of Lightning and Mustang AIRCRAFT may include armoured ones (like below, protected against ground fire) but the subject require a LAND environment, and I will have to change something to reach the subject. Should I remove the wings? Should I add undercarriage (spats?)? Should I transform it into a caterpillar? I will see what the others are doing to "improve"...

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2016, 11:11:51 AM »
The same on the Mustang way: to be improved, sorry.

Offline jcf

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2016, 03:32:55 PM »
Perhaps think in terms of a different type of Lightning and Mustang, those from Ford.  ;D



“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2016, 06:13:45 PM »
OK for wheels and lights but this should remain an armoured single-seater, no? ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2016, 12:13:02 AM »
And I include what seems to be treadheads (caterpillars?). Google-Translate failed to translate it in my language while Google-Pictures showed toys with caterpillar-wheels...

Offline LemonJello

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2016, 02:43:45 AM »
That one with the tracks is an excellent example - it could  be a sci-fi or a sea floor vehicle. Awesome!

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2016, 11:51:14 AM »
Thanks! The Mustang went the same way:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2016, 12:26:44 AM »
This P-51 Treadhead profile was rather easy to build, but I am not sure what shape it is... double fuselage with middle tracks? ???

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 03:35:24 AM »
When doing WHIFs, I like to get back to first principles; what the heck is the vehicle for? What's it's purpose?

With your ground based fighter fuselages I see absolutely no purpose for them. If it has no purpose, then it becomes very hard (for me at least) to think through the design to a successful conclusion.

So first ask yourself what purpose it would serve to take a piston engine fighter and have it drive around on the ground. Once you can come up with a coherent story, a lot of the engineering flows easily. Simply sticking tracks or turrets or the like on an aircraft fuselage ends up looking stupid and slapped together.

Have a coherent story and concept in advance an things will flow much better.

Paul

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 03:56:03 AM »
When doing WHIFs, I like to get back to first principles; what the heck is the vehicle for? What's it's purpose?

With your ground based fighter fuselages I see absolutely no purpose for them. If it has no purpose, then it becomes very hard (for me at least) to think through the design to a successful conclusion.

So first ask yourself what purpose it would serve to take a piston engine fighter and have it drive around on the ground. Once you can come up with a coherent story, a lot of the engineering flows easily. Simply sticking tracks or turrets or the like on an aircraft fuselage ends up looking stupid and slapped together.

Have a coherent story and concept in advance an things will flow much better.

Paul

Sometimes the purpose is just to look interesting...like much art.
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Offline jcf

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 05:13:48 AM »
The purpose is whimsy:icon_fsm:
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline apophenia

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2016, 06:36:08 AM »
This P-51 Treadhead profile was rather easy to build, but I am not sure what shape it is... double fuselage with middle tracks? ???


Love it  :-*  In my homage, I went with twin fuselages (and single canopy for a bit of asymmetry). I'm also thinking that if you moved the track drive sprockets to the front, they could be powered directly from those two huge Merlin engines  >:D
“Technology is a word that describes something that doesn’t work yet.” Douglas Adams

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2016, 10:46:07 PM »
Thanks apophenia, very good drawing... :-*

When doing WHIFs, I like to get back to first principles; what the heck is the vehicle for? What's it's purpose?
With your ground based fighter fuselages I see absolutely no purpose for them. If it has no purpose, then it becomes very hard (for me at least) to think through the design to a successful conclusion.
So first ask yourself what purpose it would serve to take a piston engine fighter and have it drive around on the ground. Once you can come up with a coherent story, a lot of the engineering flows easily. Simply sticking tracks or turrets or the like on an aircraft fuselage ends up looking stupid and slapped together.
Have a coherent story and concept in advance an things will flow much better.
The main purpose is enjoyment, fun and playing "crazy"... A second goal is to increase the Mustang/Lightning families in unexpected directions.
I am antimilitarist, feeling guilty to love military airplanes, I don't want at all to design a killing weapon... yes, dear GTX, this is close to art, but more simple without turning pretentious... :( ;)

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2016, 04:12:34 AM »
I am antimilitarist, feeling guilty to love military airplanes, I don't want at all to design a killing weapon... yes, dear GTX, this is close to art, but more simple without turning pretentious... :( ;)
It doesn't have to be military, but for a design to make sense, even just visual sense, as a design it has to coalesce around a coherent purpose. Think of a purpose, what does it do, then the design elements that make sense flow more easily from that.

As for it possibly being art, sure, if you like. Stick tracks and wings and canopies all over it as art. B ut do it with a coherent purpose/theme in mind

The original post was :
Quote
but the subject require a LAND environment, and I will have to change something to reach the subject. Should I remove the wings? Should I add undercarriage (spats?)? Should I transform it into a caterpillar?

My reply was to think through the design purpose and then the modifications become easier to imagine.

If the purpose is "just to look interesting" or "whimsy", then _that_ is it's purpose and, of course, everyone's idea of interesting is different, so have at it, but if you are asking for suggestions, it implies that one doesn't have a preconceived direction in which to take the design. Art and whimsy based concepts, however, provide no guidance or basis for helping Tophe out of his conundrum. He's already saying "I don't know what to do" so saying "It's art, do what you like" isn't really providing much guidance, is it? Certainly he can put tracks on the roof and a ships hull on the bottom and skis out each side if he's looking for whimsy or art, but if he knew that's what he wanted to do, he'd have done it already.

And I'm not suggesting any particular purpose for this thing, it can be for any purpose whatsoever, but no matter what, simply slapping pieces of whatever to the fuselage sections _will_ look "stupid and slapped" together unless the whole of the design hangs together in some coherent way. Think of a purpose, imagine what it's for (and that can be as an homage to "the wastefulness of war", if you like), but have a purpose in mind and the design will flow.

Otherwise it really will be bits and pieces slapped together.

Paul

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2016, 02:20:18 AM »

Otherwise it really will be bits and pieces slapped together.


And what is wrong with that?

Please remember that everyone's hobby here is different  so what is inconceivable to one may be beautiful artwork to another.  Please also remember that the most important rule of our forum is to "Have Fun!".
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 02:52:33 AM »
I personally find that the more I try to classify or quantify a build or profile the less I get done because I get stuck on the details  :icon_crap:
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2016, 11:15:37 AM »
I personally find that the more I try to classify or quantify a build or profile the less I get done because I get stuck on the details  :icon_crap:

So painfully true, almost ends up like a real critical design review, the death of many a real world project.

Offline ericr

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2016, 04:32:30 PM »

I would say that some form of believability, maybe even a credible aspect, can add attractivity to a whiff idea,
in that the tension between possibly true but actually not true contributes to the pleasure of a fiction.

And then there is pure abstraction, not meant to represent any outside object from the RW, and it also has attractions of its own, and makes it possible to go freely into unconstrained territories.

And finally, sometimes abstract ideas curiously boil down to believable stuff, and even, though rarely, to RW strangeness.

In the case of crossing aircraft and tanks :
this is one way :

that is the other way :





Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 & 51 trying to reach the subject
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2016, 01:45:25 AM »
Thanks!
A practical purpose may be tamping ski slopes with armour against snow balls from bad chidren or disturbing leprechauns or French strikers... ;)
EDIT: illustrated:
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 03:53:58 PM by Tophe »