Author Topic: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles  (Read 41325 times)

Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #135 on: July 11, 2019, 04:54:36 AM »
Again, thatís rather cool! At first glance, you think itís a Sexton but then you notice the partially riveted hull, the somewhat different side profile and most obviously, the M3 side doors. Itís not a simple conversion either, having a rebuilt hull and upgraded, later style Sherman VVSS. Iím sure the interior was significantly altered as well.

Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #136 on: July 11, 2019, 07:49:14 AM »
So far, the little bit Iíve been able to learn about this chopped Sherman is that it was a one off test vehicle, produced sometime between 1958 and 1965. Tom Gannon mentions it in a couple of his books but didnít have accessed or publishing rights to the few known photos of it. It was built in one of the IDFís major repair facilities and named Degem Yod after the facilityís commander, Major Yitzhak Jakobson.

The best guess is that it simply wasnít judged to be a cost effective conversion.

Still, it demonstrates that it would be possible to build a lower hull Sherman with a high degree of validity. Since Iím a Sherman fan, this looks like a great Whif World project for me!

Offline Zaskar24

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #137 on: July 11, 2019, 08:06:51 AM »
So far, the little bit Iíve been able to learn about this chopped Sherman is that it was a one off test vehicle, produced sometime between 1958 and 1965. Tom Gannon mentions it in a couple of his books but didnít have accessed or publishing rights to the few known photos of it. It was built in one of the IDFís major repair facilities and named Degem Yod after the facilityís commander, Major Yitzhak Jakobson.

The best guess is that it simply wasnít judged to be a cost effective conversion.

Still, it demonstrates that it would be possible to build a lower hull Sherman with a high degree of validity. Since Iím a Sherman fan, this looks like a great Whif World project for me!

THat is the information I gathered from the thread over on Armorama as well. I still have not heard back from Sabinga about what book more information on the chopped Sherman is in. It would be cool to do as a one-off pressed into service during the 6-Day War to shore up an under strength alongside M50's.

Online Old Wombat

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #138 on: July 11, 2019, 09:14:27 AM »
Of course, & I'm very sure Logan's aware of this, the M10, M18 & M36 were all tank destroyers, not tanks, &, as such, were designed for a different fighting style to the M4, so were able to dispense with the turret basket much more easily, & were less heavily armoured, so didn't require the power provided by the aero-radial.


I'm figuring it's a unique & relatively unknown modification, so I'd be tempted to do it RW, based on the photo's you have, & plonk it onto a competition table of other M4's & watch the hackles rise. ;D
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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #139 on: July 11, 2019, 10:37:07 AM »
And going into pedantic JMN mode, the M36 and M18 both have partial turret baskets, with the M36 having a vaguely similar design to wet stowage Shermans. I included the M10/M36 and M18 as a relative size comparison with a lowered Sherman even though they arenít technically tanks.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #140 on: July 11, 2019, 11:19:42 AM »
The Yeramba was an Australian self-propelled howitzer built after the end of the Second World War in the late-1940s. They were produced by mounting the 25 pounder gun howitzer on an American M3A5 Grant tank hull:


There is still an existing Yeramba at the Armour Museum at Puckapunyal:











There is an article about how to construct a Yeramba here: http://mheaust.com.au/Aust/gallery/Yeramba/Yeramba.htm

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #141 on: July 11, 2019, 09:37:01 PM »
Of course, & I'm very sure Logan's aware of this, the M10, M18 & M36 were all tank destroyers, not tanks, &, as such, were designed for a different fighting style to the M4, so were able to dispense with the turret basket much more easily, & were less heavily armoured, so didn't require the power provided by the aero-radial.

I'm figuring it's a unique & relatively unknown modification, so I'd be tempted to do it RW, based on the photo's you have, & plonk it onto a competition table of other M4's & watch the hackles rise. ;D

Exactly. They weren't supposed to be fighting from the move, either, but from pre-selected ambush positions. That's also why they weren't equipped with gyro-stabilizers. Under those conditions, a turret basket is-if anything-a greater inconvenience. In fact, they cut away large portions of the M4 Sherman's turret basket for that very reason. To get at ammunition better.

And going into pedantic JMN mode, the M36 and M18 both have partial turret baskets, with the M36 having a vaguely similar design to wet stowage Shermans. I included the M10/M36 and M18 as a relative size comparison with a lowered Sherman even though they arenít technically tanks.

True, but the point is that they protrude into the hull less than the original M4's design.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Zaskar24

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #142 on: July 12, 2019, 07:51:08 AM »
Wombat, I think one would look good with a display of other IDF Shermans and really confuse people.

Rickshaw, thank you for posting the additional photos of the Yeramba!

Offline Story

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #143 on: December 16, 2019, 09:58:20 AM »
Haven't seen this one mentioned yet - by a pwtomczak

M3 Lancer Tank Destroyer
Experimental Tank Destroyer built on an M3 Grant Hull
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/americanscalemodel/airfix-1-76-m3-lancer-td-t1603.html

Among the tanks used by the 8th Army in this battle, was a prototype tank destroyer built on the chassis of the M3 Grant tank. While the Grant tank was key to some earlier successes in the desert war, the 75mm waist gun had less AT penetration than the 37MM turret gun. The tank itself was tall and hard to hide. To solve both issues, the hull of a grant tank was used as a mount for the new 17 Pounder AT gun. To reduce overall height and increase ammo storage, the turret was removed from the Grant Chassis. To mount the fairly large 17ponder gun in the hull sponsoon, the gun was turned 90 degrees on its side.

Offline finsrin

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #144 on: December 16, 2019, 01:42:47 PM »
Fine build in 1/76.  Looks larger.  1/35 armor builder otta go do this.
Remembering reversed Lee/Grant build on BTS from a while back.  Great ingenuity and skill put into it.  :smiley:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 01:45:26 PM by finsrin »

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #145 on: December 16, 2019, 06:27:23 PM »
Wait... that's 1/76? No way!  :icon_surprised:
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #146 on: December 16, 2019, 07:05:33 PM »
 :smiley:

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #147 on: December 17, 2019, 02:45:30 AM »
Love the idea, though the backstory might be stretching it a tad given the 17pdr only really entered service in early 1943.
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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #148 on: December 18, 2019, 03:14:31 AM »
Love the idea, though the backstory might be stretching it a tad given the 17pdr only really entered service in early 1943.
Maybe for Tunisia? Loads of obsolete Lee/Grant hulls laying about by early 43...

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Re: M3 Lee/Grant and M4 Sherman Family of Vehicles
« Reply #149 on: December 18, 2019, 03:18:41 AM »
Maybe for the latter stages.
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