Author Topic: New US equipment in Vietnam  (Read 4845 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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New US equipment in Vietnam
« on: May 24, 2016, 05:17:10 AM »
Given the latest news:  US lifts arms ban on Vietnam I wonder if we might see some new US origin equipment flying in Vietnamese markings in the future?  F-16 anyone?
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Offline dy031101

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 10:18:02 AM »
How many OH Perry class frigates do they still have available for transfer?
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2016, 10:29:19 AM »
How many OH Perry class frigates do they still have available for transfer?

I don't think the Oliver Hazard Perry class has enough hitting power that the Vietnamese deem they need my friend.

M.A.D

Online Logan Hartke

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 10:35:56 AM »
Even more interesting to me is the possibility of restoration of some old equipment in Vietnam that remains in storage or limited use due to lack of spares. Still in use are significant numbers of UH-1Hs, M113s, and V-150s, all of which could be upgraded or at least refurbished by US companies who have been unable to officially support them for the past 45 years. It's also possible (but unlikely) that equipment like the CH-47 could be returned to service if they have been stored in decent condition since they were withdrawn.

How interesting might it be if Bell ends up upgrading UH-1Hs to the Huey II configuration? That would be quite the career for those aircraft.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline elmayerle

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 08:36:37 PM »
Even more interesting to me is the possibility of restoration of some old equipment in Vietnam that remains in storage or limited use due to lack of spares. Still in use are significant numbers of UH-1Hs, M113s, and V-150s, all of which could be upgraded or at least refurbished by US companies who have been unable to officially support them for the past 45 years. It's also possible (but unlikely) that equipment like the CH-47 could be returned to service if they have been stored in decent condition since they were withdrawn.

How interesting might it be if Bell ends up upgrading UH-1Hs to the Huey II configuration? That would be quite the career for those aircraft.
Not at all impossible since they have already had a delegation visiting Bell.

Online Logan Hartke

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 10:15:54 PM »
Very neat. That doesn't surprise me at all.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Kelmola

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 12:21:40 AM »
Huey II carrying two Penguin ASM's?
F-5V with BVR capability and helmet-mounted sights?
A-37C with targeting pod and AT missiles?
M113 AIFV?
V-150 upgraded with 90mm turret?
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 02:40:59 AM »

I sense great whiffing - soon to be non-whiffing - potential in this 8)

Well, that was the whole point of the announcement - President Obama and the US Govt as a whole have long been concerned with the state of the modelling economy and felt that a major announcement was needed to lift things. ;)
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Offline Weaver

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 03:05:40 AM »
Folks, most of the ex-US equipment in Vietnam has long since been retired: only the UH-1s are still in service:

Current inventory

Type                            In service

Combat
Sukhoi Su-22                     36       
Sukhoi Su-27                     37       
Sukhoi Su-30MK2               36       

Transport
PZL M28 (Maritime patrol) 1       
Antonov An-26                  30
Antonov An-2                    8       
CASA C-295                      3       

Helicopter
Kamov Ka-32                     2       
Mil Mi-8/17                         87       
Mil Mi-24                             25       
Bell UH-1H Iroquois           26    
AS350 …cureil                    5
SA330 Puma                     14
   
Training
Aero L-39                          26
Yak-130                            14
Yak-52                              36

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_People's_Air_Force#1975.E2.80.93present_.28reunified_Vietnam.29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Vietnam_People's_Air_Force


So if we're being realistic about it, updated F-5s and A-37s are off the table. If I was the VPAF I'd be looking for the following as priority programmes:

1. Replace the Su-22s with something more modern that can carry western air-to-surface weapons. 36 x F-16s to a decent spec would be ideal.

2. Expand the maritime patrol mission, since resource conflicts with China are on the cards. Since they operate Cn-295s already, Cn-235 Persuaders or a maritme version of the -295 would seem the most painless route. If they need serious ASW capability then how about surplus Orions (if there are any) or S-3 Vikings from AMARC?

3. Replace the Yak-52 with a turboprop: Tucano, PC-9, PC-21 or T-6 Texan would be the logical options.

4. A Huey re-build would be good, but I'm not sure it's essential: they could just retire them and consolidate on the Mi-17, which they've already got far more of. A more useful helicopter buy would be new Chinooks and/or western-style gunships such as the AH-1Z or AH-64.

5. Get an AWACS capability. The Embraer-145 AEW&C is the obvious affordable choice, but the Boeing Wedgetail or the Hawkeye might be other options.

Of course, you don't have to be realistic: maybe you could re-write history so that Vietnam fell out with the Russians, didn't get the Su-27/30 and is still operating clapped out F-5s and A-37s.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 03:17:26 AM by Weaver »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 10:22:31 AM »
Replace the UH-1H's with UH-1Y's and go with AH-1Z's for commonality on the logistics side?  Upgrade their existing Hueys to the equivalent of the 412EPI?

Offline Weaver

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 03:58:23 PM »
Or just replace the UH-1Hs with Blackhawks.... >:D
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 07:32:50 PM »
If AMARC is a thing, then the VPAF might also be interested in some spare 'Hogs for a threat scenario they were designed for, stopping numerically superior armoured columns thrusting across the border in case the PRC feels the need to "encourage" Vietnam giving up its claim on the disputed islands (cf. Sino-Vietnamese war). Though, something like Textron AirLand Scorpion could probably operate off some of those very islands...

Offline dy031101

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 12:40:54 AM »
How many OH Perry class frigates do they still have available for transfer?

I don't think the Oliver Hazard Perry class has enough hitting power that the Vietnamese deem they need my friend.

In terms of potential naval conflicts, things should initially be straightforward- PRC would use fortifications to delay the attackers whereas ROC seems already resigned to the idea that no military garrison can be enough to outright repulse any serious assault anyway (which can potentially explain why they primarily station coastguard troops on Taiping island), but either way, whatever either potential adversaries' first responders could muster would at best be AA guns and maybe some light anti-tank weapons; the trick for Vietnamese expansion in the South China Sea region is to fight off PLAN's and/or ROCN's subsequent efforts to recover the island(s).

F-16s with AShMs can definitely contribute in overwhelming the air defense of PLAN and/or ROCN retaliation fleet(s); as would additional missile ships, even area air defense assets (to help minimizing the damage that the Vietnamese forces would incur in combat), although yeah, I don't think OH Perry class would offer enough in this field even if they get their Mk.13 launchers back, either, and I don't know if US has anything else available that Vietnam can acquire in quantity.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 04:32:07 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2016, 03:58:08 AM »
Some interesting thoughts here

Personally, I think the first sales will be less obvious (e.g. US derived engines in platforms such as the F/A-50).  I certainly don't think there will be any desire to revive old stuff such as Hueys etc.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 04:00:12 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Weaver

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2016, 07:32:16 AM »
Just to add to the table I posted earlier, the Vietnamese Coastguard also has the following:

3 x CASA C-212 (+3 more on order)
2 x Sikorsky S-92

and the Vietnamese Navy has the following aircraft:

6 x DHC-6 Twin Otter
8 x Kamov Ka-28
2 x Super Puma
6 x Dauphin


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Online Logan Hartke

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2016, 11:09:00 AM »
It looks like P-3s and F-16s may be on the shopping list.

Defense News: Vietnam May Request F-16s, P-3 Orions From US

The P-3s don't really surprise me, but the F-16s sort of do.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Weaver

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Re: New US equipment in Vietnam
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2016, 06:57:45 PM »
It looks like P-3s and F-16s may be on the shopping list.

Defense News: Vietnam May Request F-16s, P-3 Orions From US

The P-3s don't really surprise me, but the F-16s sort of do.

Cheers,

Logan


If, as that article suggests, they get the same deal as the Indonesians, that's 2nd-hand F-16s Block 32s from AMARC upgraded to Block 52 standard. They get the airframes for free, but they have to pay for the upgrade. using them to replace the Su-22s would give them an all-modern force that looks pretty good.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
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