Author Topic: The Joint Strike Fighter Program  (Read 6550 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2016, 05:17:49 AM »
Another interesting presentation:  Inventing the Joint Strike Fighter:  http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Joint-strike-fighter-Presentation.pdf
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2016, 05:25:24 AM »
Two more from Dr. Paul Bevilaqua - in video for this time.

https://youtu.be/u-cfy-k_8ew
https://youtu.be/w_Iw3Z6Dh8g
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2016, 05:27:59 AM »
Re the question of "compromise" let me just say that any design (even when people make outlandish claims such as "not a pound for Air-to-ground") is a result of compromises.  Anyone who says otherwise is lying!

My brother is going to school to learn to be an engineer and they basically said "everything is a trade off, barring a revolutionary breakthrough--- and the breakthrough will have its own trade offs too"



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Offline elmayerle

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2016, 10:50:34 AM »
Re the question of "compromise" let me just say that any design (even when people make outlandish claims such as "not a pound for Air-to-ground") is a result of compromises.  Anyone who says otherwise is lying!

My brother is going to school to learn to be an engineer and they basically said "everything is a trade off, barring a revolutionary breakthrough--- and the breakthrough will have its own trade offs too"
Having been working as an engineer for over four decades, all I can say is "Oh, hell, yes!  There is nothing without a tradeoff; good engineering consists of making acceptable tradeoffs and making them as painless as possible!".  Mind you, customer requirements and the most stringent test conditions possible, will not begin to approach what a design will actually encounter in the real world (true at least for aerospace and, I'll wager, for just about any vehicle).

Offline Volkodav

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2016, 05:54:01 PM »
Having worked in R&D in automotive, as well as T&E in naval shipbuilding I can say you'd likely win that wager.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2016, 02:44:58 AM »
Another video people might find interesting:  https://youtu.be/dDrv-E6mqjc
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2016, 04:19:02 AM »
Info on two of the F-35's sensor systems (forgive the marketing style videos):

EODAS:  https://youtu.be/9fm5vfGW5RY
APG-81:  https://youtu.be/hzDke56vMiU
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2016, 10:17:45 AM »
Info on two of the F-35's sensor systems (forgive the marketing style videos):

EODAS:  https://youtu.be/9fm5vfGW5RY
APG-81:  https://youtu.be/hzDke56vMiU


More on HOBS and the effects:



Quote
From Janes, May 2001:
According to one source, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.

"Is the US Navy Overrated?" a study from Kightsbridge Univ:
The Israeli Air Force, perhaps the best-trained and most experienced in the world, has outshined the US Navy, and they have done so more than once. A joint USN-IAF air combat exercise in 1999 underlines and highlights the thesis that the US Navy is overrated. On September 14, 1999, The Jerusalem Post announced that the Israelis soundly dispatched the air wing from the USS Theodore Roosevelt (which, incidentally, was the same carrier the Dutch destroyed in 1999). Israeli F-16s squared off against American F-14s and F-18s. The final results were astonishing. The Israelis shot down a whopping 220 US aircraft while losing only 20 themselves. The 10:1 kill ratio was so embarrassing that the results were not “officially published ‘to save the reputations of the US Navy pilots.’” The magazine article on which the article was based, however, reported the kill ratio to be about 20:1.
This incident was not the first time the US Navy has found itself running behind the Israelis in air combat. Back in 1983, significant qualitative differences between the Israeli Air Force and US naval aviation became obvious when the US Navy botched a raid over Lebanon to suppress Syrian forces there. Aircrews from the USS John F. Kennedy were not properly briefed, launched with the wrong weapons, used outdated tactics, lost twenty percent of their aircraft, and in return, did very little damage to the Syrian positions. The Israelis, conversely, had enjoyed great success during hundreds of missions over the Bekaa Valley with negligible losses. Yes, the Israelis had far more experience flying over the region, and thus a major advantage, but even Secretary Lehman, himself a Naval Reserve aviator, granted that the Israelis were simply more organized, more creative, and had far better planning and tactics than the Americans did.


This was attributed to Helmet queuing and Pythons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMSfg26YSQ

Testing on Aim-9X^

So with this in mind, the Super Hornet and JSF had a much more different emphasis on how to bring weapon systems onto target.
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

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Offline Kelmola

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2016, 03:59:13 PM »
The irony in the A-10 example is that during its 40 years in service, it eventually got almost all the capabilities the Sluf had too as upgrades (INS, Pave Penny, LASTE, GPS, etc.), except for the radar (though with the C being compatible with targeting pods, I wonder if it could also utilize the radar pod from LANTIRN system?).

Offline Volkodav

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2016, 06:48:51 PM »
Info on two of the F-35's sensor systems (forgive the marketing style videos):

EODAS:  https://youtu.be/9fm5vfGW5RY
APG-81:  https://youtu.be/hzDke56vMiU


More on HOBS and the effects:



Quote
From Janes, May 2001:
According to one source, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.

"Is the US Navy Overrated?" a study from Kightsbridge Univ:
The Israeli Air Force, perhaps the best-trained and most experienced in the world, has outshined the US Navy, and they have done so more than once. A joint USN-IAF air combat exercise in 1999 underlines and highlights the thesis that the US Navy is overrated. On September 14, 1999, The Jerusalem Post announced that the Israelis soundly dispatched the air wing from the USS Theodore Roosevelt (which, incidentally, was the same carrier the Dutch destroyed in 1999). Israeli F-16s squared off against American F-14s and F-18s. The final results were astonishing. The Israelis shot down a whopping 220 US aircraft while losing only 20 themselves. The 10:1 kill ratio was so embarrassing that the results were not “officially published ‘to save the reputations of the US Navy pilots.’” The magazine article on which the article was based, however, reported the kill ratio to be about 20:1.
This incident was not the first time the US Navy has found itself running behind the Israelis in air combat. Back in 1983, significant qualitative differences between the Israeli Air Force and US naval aviation became obvious when the US Navy botched a raid over Lebanon to suppress Syrian forces there. Aircrews from the USS John F. Kennedy were not properly briefed, launched with the wrong weapons, used outdated tactics, lost twenty percent of their aircraft, and in return, did very little damage to the Syrian positions. The Israelis, conversely, had enjoyed great success during hundreds of missions over the Bekaa Valley with negligible losses. Yes, the Israelis had far more experience flying over the region, and thus a major advantage, but even Secretary Lehman, himself a Naval Reserve aviator, granted that the Israelis were simply more organized, more creative, and had far better planning and tactics than the Americans did.


This was attributed to Helmet queuing and Pythons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMSfg26YSQ

Testing on Aim-9X^

So with this in mind, the Super Hornet and JSF had a much more different emphasis on how to bring weapon systems onto target.


During the 90s the RAAF trained with RMAF MIG 29s and really struggled against the HMS R-73 combo which was one of the drivers behind the Hornet Upgrade Program (HUG) which introduced ASRAAM and a HMS, along with new radar and other extensive upgrades.  HUG wasn't in anyway to counter the fearsome Malaysians but rather the insight into the performance of the R-73 HMS combo demonstrated that without an upgrade the RAAF could not deploy combat forces pretty much anywhere without being at a very serious disadvantage.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2016, 02:57:01 AM »
The F-35 Helmet is one system that people often overlook.  In the F-35, the helmet constitutes another key system since there is no HUD what-so-ever.  Moreover, the helmet allows the pilot to do a lot - as per the video on this page:  https://www.f35.com/about/capabilities/helmet


BTW, it isn't just men flying the F-35 (as the video above implies).  Women are too:  https://youtu.be/R3pNMiHixmo
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2016, 03:17:12 AM »
BTW, if nothing else, the helmet just looks cool:



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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2016, 03:25:21 AM »
BTW, if nothing else, the helmet just looks cool:






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Offline jcf

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2016, 04:49:20 AM »

More on HOBS and the effects:



Quote
From Janes, May 2001:
According to one source, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.

"Is the US Navy Overrated?" a study from Kightsbridge Univ:
The Israeli Air Force, perhaps the best-trained and most experienced in the world, has outshined the US Navy, and they have done so more than once. A joint USN-IAF air combat exercise in 1999 underlines and highlights the thesis that the US Navy is overrated. On September 14, 1999, The Jerusalem Post announced that the Israelis soundly dispatched the air wing from the USS Theodore Roosevelt (which, incidentally, was the same carrier the Dutch destroyed in 1999). Israeli F-16s squared off against American F-14s and F-18s. The final results were astonishing. The Israelis shot down a whopping 220 US aircraft while losing only 20 themselves. The 10:1 kill ratio was so embarrassing that the results were not “officially published ‘to save the reputations of the US Navy pilots.’” The magazine article on which the article was based, however, reported the kill ratio to be about 20:1.
This incident was not the first time the US Navy has found itself running behind the Israelis in air combat. Back in 1983, significant qualitative differences between the Israeli Air Force and US naval aviation became obvious when the US Navy botched a raid over Lebanon to suppress Syrian forces there. Aircrews from the USS John F. Kennedy were not properly briefed, launched with the wrong weapons, used outdated tactics, lost twenty percent of their aircraft, and in return, did very little damage to the Syrian positions. The Israelis, conversely, had enjoyed great success during hundreds of missions over the Bekaa Valley with negligible losses. Yes, the Israelis had far more experience flying over the region, and thus a major advantage, but even Secretary Lehman, himself a Naval Reserve aviator, granted that the Israelis were simply more organized, more creative, and had far better planning and tactics than the Americans did.


This was attributed to Helmet queuing and Pythons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMSfg26YSQ

Testing on Aim-9X^

So with this in mind, the Super Hornet and JSF had a much more different emphasis on how to bring weapon systems onto target.


Tell me again how you can't rely on missiles and a fighter has to have a gun, you know, those supposed
lessons of Vietnam. The real lesson of Vietnam in regards to air-to-air combat was don't get involved in
shit where you don't control the environment and the ROE.
 :-X
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: The Joint Strike Fighter Program
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2016, 08:11:04 AM »
BTW, it isn't just men flying the F-35 (as the video above implies).  Women are too:  https://youtu.be/R3pNMiHixmo

So what are we watching here, the video switches back and forth between an F-35A and an F-35C   ::)