Author Topic: M.A.D's 'Alternative Australian Defence Force Order of Battle' Questions please  (Read 12963 times)

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
The '60s unit cost for an F-104G was around USD 1M (AUD 0.89M). Unit cost for a J79-GE-3 in 1961 was USD 624,727 (AUD 557,791).

Thank you very much apophenia
Can I enquire as to your source for referencing please?


M.A.D

Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
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Can I enquire as to your source for referencing please?

Erm ... random detritus from my heap of a filing 'system'  :-[
Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Can I enquire as to your source for referencing please?

Erm ... random detritus from my heap of a filing 'system'  :-[

Thanks mate!!


M.A.D

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
G'day all

I'm looking for forum members input please!

I'm looking for/needing a Airborne Early Warning (AEW) derivative of the Breguet Br.1050 Alizé for my Alternative ADF ORBAT (yes I know, it's still going.....😩)

I need this adaption of this carrier-based Br.1050 ASW aircraft into a AEW platform to be minimalistic in both terms of engineering and cost is imperative.

I appear to have but two choices for the time frame (~1960-1970) I'm needing this Alizé variant - the ubiquitous Hazeltine AN/APS-20 Radar, as used with the Grumman TBM-3W Avenger, Douglas AD-3W, AD-4W Skyraider and the Fairey Gannet AEW3 or a more modern, and hopefully more compact radar design of the era. In saying this can an anyone suggest a small, light weight, reliable and functioning radar system of the early to mid 1960's which one thinks could be installed in the Br.1050 Alizé existing retractable radome, which housed the surface search APS-33 radar? From the information I can find, this retractable radome which the Br.1050 Alizé uses facilities the APS-33's radar antenna with a diameter of 1.3 m)

(Note: The length of the fuselage Br.1050 Alizé is 13.86 m, the height is 1.94 m, the width is 1.71 m. The fuselage was divided into three sections: the nose (engine compartment), the central (compartment of the cabin and armament) and the tail section (the radar antenna section). In the fuselage, there were several sealed partitions, ensuring the buoyancy of the aircraft when forced to land on the water.)

Also, from what I have read, the Alizé seems to have suffered somewhat from being underpowered on take off and landing when operating from carrier's. Is there a more powerful derivative of the Rolls Royce Dart series of turboprop engine that one thinks can be fitted to the Alizé, without to much hassle or expensive engineering?

Thank you in advance!

M.A.D
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 06:54:55 PM by M.A.D »

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
For engines, the RD.10 at 2500 hp would add an extra 400 hp plus an additional 200 lb thrust and probably would have fit in a minimally modified fuselage (probably got either an extra stage of compressor and turbine or a little larger in diameter, both relatively easily accommodated. Plus, once you have the RD.10 in place, upgrading later to the RD.10/1 at 3000 hp would probably be a viable mid-life upgrade.

As for radars, I'm not at all familiar with what was available, however, given that the Alize retained a weapons bay along with it's radar, I think you have the scope to rearrange the interior a bit such that a larger radar in a semi-retractable radome is below the wing leading edge with a slightly elongated operator compartment behind housing even 2 operators. You could probably fit a 2m radome in a semi-retractable fairing where part of it, more than on the real Alize, sticks out. The extra power would be good to overcome the extra drag of the radome. I suspect that even without weapons, that additional fuel would fill the space made vacant by the weapons bay such that even with a new engine it might remain a touch underpowered.

HTH

Paul

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
For engines, the RD.10 at 2500 hp would add an extra 400 hp plus an additional 200 lb thrust and probably would have fit in a minimally modified fuselage (probably got either an extra stage of compressor and turbine or a little larger in diameter, both relatively easily accommodated. Plus, once you have the RD.10 in place, upgrading later to the RD.10/1 at 3000 hp would probably be a viable mid-life upgrade.

As for radars, I'm not at all familiar with what was available, however, given that the Alize retained a weapons bay along with it's radar, I think you have the scope to rearrange the interior a bit such that a larger radar in a semi-retractable radome is below the wing leading edge with a slightly elongated operator compartment behind housing even 2 operators. You could probably fit a 2m radome in a semi-retractable fairing where part of it, more than on the real Alize, sticks out. The extra power would be good to overcome the extra drag of the radome. I suspect that even without weapons, that additional fuel would fill the space made vacant by the weapons bay such that even with a new engine it might remain a touch underpowered.

HTH

Paul

Thank you for your valuable input Paul!!
As much as what you denote makes sense to me, can I impose upon you to do and PM me a rough sketch of the radar arrangement you are proposing please?? :-[


M.A.D

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Thank you for your valuable input Paul!!
As much as what you denote makes sense to me, can I impose upon you to do and PM me a rough sketch of the radar arrangement you are proposing please?? :-[
M.A.D
How does this work for you?

I extended the nose a bit to account for the longer engine, moved the two operators to the rear and added a larger radome under the wing.

Didn't draw a front view to see if the radome clears the landing gear, mind!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Camelus bactrianus... ;)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Camelus bactrianus... ;)
Just hope it doesn't spit!

Actually "Breguet Bactrian AEW.1" is a pretty good name for it!

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Thank you for your valuable input Paul!!
As much as what you denote makes sense to me, can I impose upon you to do and PM me a rough sketch of the radar arrangement you are proposing please?? :-[
M.A.D
How does this work for you?

I extended the nose a bit to account for the longer engine, moved the two operators to the rear and added a larger radome under the wing.

Didn't draw a front view to see if the radome clears the landing gear, mind!

Oh wow, that's so cool Paul /  tankmoder :-*
Thank you for going the extra mile extra with you drawing - it really makes sense to me now!!

Paul, I've dropped you a PM in relation to your drawing!!


M.A.D