Author Topic: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86  (Read 26664 times)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2016, 03:12:03 AM »
Thanks guys, comments are really appreciated --

Online Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2016, 03:40:52 AM »
The extensions you have added to the tail look quite convincing and purposeful.  Certainly compliments the whole twin Sabre idea. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2016, 05:09:30 AM »
Thanks Jeff ---

The thinking behind the tail extensions is from comparing P-51H's and the F-82. The F-82 works out to have about 1 1/2 times the wing area as the P-51H, and it's about the same for the tail-plane (top pic).  The tail-plane for the FJ-1 has almost the same area as the F-82 tail-plane (second pic). So to make the tail-plane on the Twin Sabre 1 1/2 times, I added the outer tail-planes which as said earlier, were trimmed down to P-51D length  (I didn't want an over-sized tail-plane though).  The FJ-1 tail-plane has the bonus of having the same length chord at the wing root as the F-82's chord plus on top of that, and without modifying anything and where they get attached to the fuselage, the elevator hinge line matches each other perfectly and are in a dead straight line, almost as if it were planned that way for real.

Same thinking went on the fin/rudder, the F-82's fin/rudder is bigger than the P-51H fin/rudder by about 1 1/2 times, but of course it also has two fins. So the fin extension is 18 scale inches taller on the Twin Sabre, not exactly 1 1/2 times bigger but does the job I was looking for.

Interestingly, the FJ-1 wing has almost the same area as the outer wing on the F-82, the wing root chord (sans the root leading edge extension) is almost the same as the wing center section of the F-82 (bottom pic).  The pic doesn't really show it but the leading edges were lined up, the FJ-1 wingtip is a little longer but then a bit shorter in the chord at the wingtip.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 05:40:14 AM by kitnut617 »

Online Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2016, 04:06:48 PM »
Now I am wondering what the F-51/P-51 would look like with the FJ1 wings :)
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2016, 08:40:20 PM »
About the same Jeff, to a P-51H that is.  Which has quite a bit bigger wing than what the P-51D wing is. I've got a plan to use an FJ-1 wing to do a tri-gear Mustang ---- 

The XFJ-1 had wings just like the P-51H, later FJ-1's had a much larger wing root leading edge extension than what P-51's had but also the trailing edge of the wing got a kink to it, from the inside end of the aileron to the fuselage where the flap's chord is longer. You can see it in the pic I posted of the FJ-1 wing on the F-82. Although Wiki says the XFJ-1 got wings from the P-51D (and the tail and canopy), comparing my model's parts, it clearly wasn't.  If anything, the wing, tail and canopy came from the XP-51F, and I've got a plan to reverse engineer the FJ-1 parts to do an XP-51G (bottom pic). All I was waiting for to complete this was an FJ-1 canopy, not the one you see in the pic, where photos show that the canopy sat on top of the fuselage (like the FJ-1) and not set into the fuselage like earlier P-51's.

For sometime I had been wondering why the XP-51F and XP-51G had such a huge canopy. Then last year or so, I came across some new photos (to me anyway) which went a long way of explaining the why.  It would seem that NA raised the cockpit upwards (I suspect it was because of the same reason Spitefuls and Furys (Hawker ones) had raised cockpits) and the larger canopy was needed for head clearance. The P-51H had a raised cockpit too, but instead of giving it a bigger canopy, the fuselage sides were built up in metal and a regular P-51 canopy was used.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 06:22:21 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2016, 08:53:45 PM »
Perhaps use the nose gear portion of a T-28 for that tri-gear P-51?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2016, 09:19:02 PM »
Now that's a good idea Evan, I'll keep that in mind.

Offline ericr

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2016, 01:10:19 AM »

a twin sabre, nice idea!


Online finsrin

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2016, 03:06:10 AM »
Besides an interesting build this is new to me interesting information. :)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 03:07:44 AM by finsrin »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2016, 01:51:02 AM »
I've got all the outer wings glued on now too, and the PSR process has begun --- hoping to get this completed very soon. Work is picking up and it looks like there won't be anytime to do anything let alone model building.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2016, 06:43:48 PM »
I had a slight set-back with the build, I was in the Cold War GB and the dead-line was creeping up so started to rush it, but as always when doing that, it looked rushed ----

so I've stopped what I was doing to take a step back, fix the problems I created and finish it properly.

But here was where I got to before I stopped. It will be a 'high-arctic' patroller/interceptor (for bombers anyway) so will have the hi-vis red, now I just need to sort out the NMF which I fu*&ed up

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2016, 10:37:31 AM »
 :-* wow, so nice! Please go on (someday)... ;)

Offline ericr

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2016, 02:52:44 AM »
 :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2016, 06:17:36 AM »
The kit has been fighting me all the way, apart from all the port side (fuselage half outward to wingtip) being different to the starboard side (when it should just be a mirror-image), while drilling out the gun ports using what is moulded in as a guide, I found that again, the port side guns are not in-line with the starboard side (they're higher up the fuselage side). So I've had to fill them all in and re-drill them out.

Then I saw that the chord profile of the wing seems to be upside down, at first I thought I had glued the wings on the wrong way around, but no as the lower half of each wing has the wheel bay cutouts in them and they're on the lower side.  Now all fixed but what I had painted has now got to be done again.

I've come to the conclusion the Siga FJ-1 is not a very nice kit to build ----- I think I'll get a Valom one next to build a regular FJ-1

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2016, 12:25:13 PM »
The kit has been fighting me all the way, apart from all the port side (fuselage half outward to wingtip) being different to the starboard side (when it should just be a mirror-image), while drilling out the gun ports using what is moulded in as a guide, I found that again, the port side guns are not in-line with the starboard side (they're higher up the fuselage side). So I've had to fill them all in and re-drill them out.
Asymmetry is delicious, no need to change into a boring "normal" plane!

Online finsrin

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2016, 02:04:54 PM »
Wider center wing I would not thought of.  Glad you did cuz it works. :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2016, 05:40:38 PM »
Wider center wing I would not thought of.  Glad you did cuz it works. :)

That's with the slats & flaps extended Bill, I've glued these ones on and the outer wings will have slats & flaps too only I'm still working on the wings. I screwed up the painting of the NMF so had to sand everything off and start again.  What happens when you start to rush a build, things get put on to quickly and then they get in the way when something goes wrong.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2016, 05:41:59 PM »
The kit has been fighting me all the way, apart from all the port side (fuselage half outward to wingtip) being different to the starboard side (when it should just be a mirror-image), while drilling out the gun ports using what is moulded in as a guide, I found that again, the port side guns are not in-line with the starboard side (they're higher up the fuselage side). So I've had to fill them all in and re-drill them out.
Asymmetry is delicious, no need to change into a boring "normal" plane!

Too late Tophe, all fixed   ;)  I'll post some up to date pics tomorrow

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2016, 06:04:01 AM »
Painting is coming along  -----  s-l-o-w-l-y    ;D  I had to sand off most of the red I had done earlier and start again. The anti-glare panel in front of the canopies will probably get revised so the decals I have will fit in between it and the nose wheel bay. I'll probably have to get some more from the decal supplier as the ones I have are too short.

Pics here are to show Bill how most of the leading edge has slats and most of the trailing edge has flaps. The slats and flaps on the outer wings are just held in place with tape at the moment here, still working on the wings ---
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 06:20:06 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #94 on: April 27, 2016, 06:18:19 AM »
A side view pic (sorry - not very good one)

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2016, 12:05:05 AM »
Wonderful! :-* (once more but this is closed to completion now it seems: the delight is thus doubled)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2016, 01:07:58 AM »
Just about Tophe, all that's left to do is to make up some wheel bay doors and the rest is just painting and decals  ----

No more solving problems     ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 01:09:36 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2016, 12:22:16 PM »
Internal paint and decals are not necessary to my taste, but painting the canopy frames will be the final touch (for me). ;)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #98 on: July 11, 2016, 02:22:19 AM »
Got my revised decals now, I had tried to explain to the CanMilAir owner how I wanted the red/white triangle band to be after sending him a photo of how the original band fits to the fuselage. 

I had made a copy of the decal sheet on basic printing paper and cut the decals out that I needed to test to see if they would work. Unfortunately, the forward fuselage of the FJ-1 is quite a bit different to the F-86, not only is it a lot deeper, the shape of it is completely different so how Bill Burns has the F-86 band just wouldn't work.

Top pic is my test piece taped to the nose, the bottom pic is of how I worked out how it needed to be and you can see the difference. I ended up drawing it in AutoCAD and then asking Bill if he could print it for me as I can't get white decal paper around here for some reason. Bill very kindly did print it for me.

The plan now is to line-up the new band rear edge with the forward vertical panel line that is just behind the taped on band in the top pic. The anti-glare panel will now come down to the top of that panel (the gun access panel). I'm also going to take the band all the way around the bottom of the fuselage, hence the two short bits that will be on the front nose bay door
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 02:26:36 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #99 on: July 11, 2016, 02:46:55 AM »
This will be awesome when it is done. Don't stop, keep pounding at it away Robert.
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