Author Topic: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86  (Read 22183 times)

Offline kitnut617

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North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« on: October 19, 2014, 07:56:38 AM »
I've had on my mind for a few weeks a new project, got the idea from working on some F-82's and thought this could have been a natural progression of the Twin Mustang.

I've cobbled this together quickly so what was in my head had a physical bearing.  It will be a nightfighter using the huge pod from the F-82, but it struck me that eighteen forward firing .5's could be quite devastating ---  :o

My project won't have any center wing guns though, and only four per fuselage --
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:31:21 PM by kitnut617 »

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 08:07:13 AM »
Wicked!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 09:20:23 AM »
You'll probably need a center pod as an auxiliary fuel tank.  Those early jet engines were thirsty beasts and not particularly efficient.

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 09:37:20 AM »
Very cool indeed 8) !! Imagine bringing it aboard a pitching carrier :D
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 09:38:29 PM »
Thanks guys

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 09:59:08 PM »
You'll probably need a center pod as an auxiliary fuel tank.  Those early jet engines were thirsty beasts and not particularly efficient.

I was thinking about what we had discussed on another thread Evan, about a USN F-82 and where the arrester hook would have to be located, we came up with an extended pod sticking out behind the trailing edge of the center wing section.

I'm thinking along the same lines here, using a couple of the big radar pods I have spare.  What I'll do is shorten what is sticking out the front (no prop to interfere) and have it protruding about 1/2" (12mm) beyond the trailing edge. The hook would extend out from there but then be retractable into the pod end.

Fuel wise, as I'm not having guns in the wing center section, all available space in the wing will be for fuel tanks, plus I'll have four of the F-82 300 Gal tanks under the outer wings.  Another thing that cancels the use of the wing guns is that the wheel bays will be located right where the ammo storage bins are.  I thought about using the wing tip tanks but the aircraft is already a stubby little thing, it just doesn't look right with the tanks on the wing tips.  I did play with the idea of stretching the fuselage but in the end, decided not to. 

Matching the tail-planes between a F-82 and just one FJ-1, I calculated that there's not a lot of difference in area (in 1/72 scale and mm's, the FJ-I had 1050 sq' mm, whereas the F-82 tail-plane works out to 1100 sq' mm), so to me there's not enough tail-plane for a Twin Fury (the F-82 got away with it because the rear fuselage is extended 67"[RW]).  I'll probably add half of each FJ-1 tail-plane to the outer side of each fuselage.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 04:04:43 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 03:38:09 AM »
That's a cool looking stubby!

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 11:40:17 PM »
Wonderful! I clap my hands so much, it hurts... ;) :-*

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 01:25:26 AM »
Cheers guys !

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2014, 10:20:55 AM »
Matching the tail-planes between a F-82 and just one FJ-1, I calculated that there's not a lot of difference in area (in 1/72 scale and mm's, the FJ-I had 1050 sq' mm, whereas the F-82 tail-plane works out to 1100 sq' mm), so to me there's not enough tail-plane for a Twin Fury (the F-82 got away with it because the rear fuselage is extended 67"[RW]).  I'll probably add half of each FJ-1 tail-plane to the outer side of each fuselage.
That sounds reasonable.  If you need a touch more length, look at fitting the tail surfaces to a pair of F-86 aft fuselages (I'd suggest the old Matchbox kit if you can find a couple).  I'm crossing a Merlin FJ-1 with a Matchbox F-86A to produce a straight-winged XP-86.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2014, 09:11:47 PM »
Matching the tail-planes between a F-82 and just one FJ-1, I calculated that there's not a lot of difference in area (in 1/72 scale and mm's, the FJ-I had 1050 sq' mm, whereas the F-82 tail-plane works out to 1100 sq' mm), so to me there's not enough tail-plane for a Twin Fury (the F-82 got away with it because the rear fuselage is extended 67"[RW]).  I'll probably add half of each FJ-1 tail-plane to the outer side of each fuselage.
That sounds reasonable.  If you need a touch more length, look at fitting the tail surfaces to a pair of F-86 aft fuselages (I'd suggest the old Matchbox kit if you can find a couple).  I'm crossing a Merlin FJ-1 with a Matchbox F-86A to produce a straight-winged XP-86.

I've got a XP-86 (straight wing) project going to Evan, using the said Matchbox F-86A and the left-over parts from the second Siga Fury kit.  I need to find another manufacturers kit of an F-86A though because the fuselage around the tail-pipe of the Matchbox kit is not very round (but I think the Matchbox kit is the only game in town).  I'll use a fin & rudder from an F-82 as it is very close to the FJ-1 fin/rudder for size.

Evan, if you can get hold of Squadron/Signal's Walk Around No.21 - F-86 Sabre, there's a photo of the straight wing XP-86 plus a side profile on the very first page.  The caption for the photo says it's the only known photo of the first XP-86.  But I'm sure I've seen another --- just got to find where

« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 09:22:39 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 01:38:39 AM »
Google "XP-86".  There's an early jets website out there that has a staight-wing mockup picture from roughly the aft 3/4's view.  I'll have to get that walk-around.

if necessary, I've got three Fujimi F-86F kits that are giving up everything but their fuselages for Avon-Sabre conversions, so I've got extra fuselages if I need them.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 02:35:39 AM »
There's an early jets website out there that has a staight-wing mockup picture from roughly the aft 3/4's view. 

In google images, there's a pic which is what appears in the Walk Around book which must be the same as what you've seen (but I couldn't find that web site you were in)but see below, is this what you've found

The other photo I seem to remember wasn't of the XP-86 per say, it was of some other North American aircraft (possibly a P-51 of some mark) and the caption said something like 'notice the XP-86 behind'.  From what I remember of the photo, the XP-86 was assembled too.

What's interesting about the photo below is that the wing is 'all-in-one', like a P-51s.  However, I've found photos of a FJ-1 which was disassembled and it reveals that the wing was built as two separate wings and bolted to the sides of the fuselage (British style)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:57:34 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 02:41:50 AM »
What a killer idea!

I'd go with max guns, but sometimes I go a little over-board.

Watching with great interest,
Brian da Basher

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 02:42:21 AM »
I've also found this 3-View

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 02:50:12 AM »
I've also found this photo of what might be the XFJ-1, it's lacking the wing root leading edge extensions and the modified flaps the production FJ-1 got. On my Twin Fury/P-86B (by the way, there was a real F-86B proposal but wasn't built) I've deleted these extensions but kept the modified flaps and I've also moved the wing forward -- my thinking here is that the radar equipment stowed in the pod, moves the cg forward.  Just my reasoning to make some space between the wing and the tail-planes  ;)

The wing without the extensions and modified flaps match the F-51H wing almost exactly, which happens to be a bit smaller than the F-82 wing. But by leaving the modified flaps on, the length of the chord at the wing root is almost the same as the F-82 center section chord.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:55:37 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 02:56:16 AM »
What a killer idea!

I'd go with max guns, but sometimes I go a little over-board.

Watching with great interest,
Brian da Basher

Cheers BdB --

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 10:05:43 AM »
There's an early jets website out there that has a staight-wing mockup picture from roughly the aft 3/4's view. 

In google images, there's a pic which is what appears in the Walk Around book which must be the same as what you've seen (but I couldn't find that web site you were in)but see below, is this what you've found

The other photo I seem to remember wasn't of the XP-86 per say, it was of some other North American aircraft (possibly a P-51 of some mark) and the caption said something like 'notice the XP-86 behind'.  From what I remember of the photo, the XP-86 was assembled too.

What's interesting about the photo below is that the wing is 'all-in-one', like a P-51s.  However, I've found photos of a FJ-1 which was disassembled and it reveals that the wing was built as two separate wings and bolted to the sides of the fuselage (British style)
Yep, that's the photo I was referring to.  Useful for doing a XP-86(without letter) as I intend (actually, I've got the bits and pieces for a couple of them).

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2014, 10:17:33 PM »
Well, I've cobbled together what I would call an XP-86, that takes care of a number of spare parts from the second FJ-1 kit

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2014, 10:18:30 PM »
That most certainly looks the part.  I hope mine turn out as well.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2014, 10:22:27 PM »
I took delivery of some very nicely vacuformed 1/72 FJ-1 canopies yesterday, from Tasman through Jay's Models.  These are suitable for the Pegasus, Merlin and Rareplane kits

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2014, 10:28:05 PM »
That most certainly looks the part.  I hope mine turn out as well.

Thanks Evan, I'll file off the leading edge extensions and straighten out the trailing edge of the wing before I really go to town on it.  I'm wondering about the main gear bays though, on the FJ-1 the bays are completely in the wing, whereas on a F-86 the area where the wheel retracts into is in the fuselage. I was reading that the proposed F-86B was to get bigger main wheels and brakes so the fuselage would have been widened 7", so my thinking for the XP-86 is the wheel bays would be like an F-86.  So I'll carefully cut the wheel bays out of the lower wing half and move them inwards, replacing the F-86 wheel bays in the kits fuselage.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2014, 10:50:42 PM »
Well, I've cobbled together what I would call an XP-86, that takes care of a number of spare parts from the second FJ-1 kit

That looks absolutely cracker-jack! I can't help imagining it in RCN maple-leafs...

Brian da Basher

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2014, 11:49:16 PM »
Well, I've cobbled together what I would call an XP-86, that takes care of a number of spare parts from the second FJ-1 kit

That looks absolutely cracker-jack! I can't help imagining it in RCN maple-leafs...

Brian da Basher

 :) BdB

I was actually thinking an exchange with the RAF, and tested by them alongside a P-80, a Supermarine Jet Spiteful, Hawker Hawk and a Gloster Ace ----

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2014, 07:29:38 AM »
I've been studying this XP-86 version and it began to bug me as looking like something else I've seen.  Then it came to me, if you ignore where the air intake is and the size of the cockpit, it's got a bit of a BAC Strikemaster look to it.  Doing some googling and I find the two aircraft are very similar in size and shape, which gives me a couple of other ideas, one would be the XP-86 which I'm saying was exchanged with the RAF (RAE), got used as a test mule for the Jet Provost/Strikemaster equipment, or I'll go with a single seat Strikemaster --- using an F-86 forward fuselage but with a solid nose.  I've got a Jet Provost in the stash, just need to do some measuring to see if it's feasible ---

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2015, 09:55:08 AM »
F2J-1. Found this via 72nd Scale Aircraft. Kit by Paul Boyer:



1/48 Version here. Kit by Don Fogal.



Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2015, 10:15:07 AM »
Oh my!!!!!  8)
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Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2015, 10:38:29 AM »
Everything may be interesting but... is the Twin-Sabre project... "cancelled"? ??? :icon_sueno:
(the title says "plus an XP-86", but it seems no news come about the twin, like if her parts are gone to build something else, alas...)
I would cry a little, but accept it of course, as the creator is allmighty with the life-and-death right on his own models... ;)

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2015, 01:50:32 PM »
That IS to die for :P :-* A beautiful pair of Whiffs!!!  8) 8) An F-8 would've eaten it alive though :)) :))
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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2015, 04:13:18 PM »
Sweet!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline kim margosein

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2015, 06:55:51 AM »
I did a P-86 some time back.  I used FJ-1 wings and tail with an F-86 fuselage.  I figured the fuselage was a bit taller for better pilot's view.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2015, 10:03:36 AM »
Everything may be interesting but... is the Twin-Sabre project... "cancelled"? ??? :icon_sueno:
(the title says "plus an XP-86", but it seems no news come about the twin, like if her parts are gone to build something else, alas...)
I would cry a little, but accept it of course, as the creator is allmighty with the life-and-death right on his own models... ;)

No Tophe, life got in the way --  :-X  been very busy with the new job (12-14 hrs a day)  I was looking at joining the WWIII GB but I just don't have the time I'm afraid   :(

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2015, 11:04:12 AM »
Wonderful news, that this model is not destroyed...
Of course, take your time, there is no hurry at all (I mean like evil >:D :  if you die from over-work, the model will never be finished...).
The most important according to me is 1/ your health, 2/ your fun 3/ finishing the Twin-Sabre model/invention... ;)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2015, 04:18:08 AM »
Although my job has seriously cut into model building time, the nature of the job allows me to do a lot of thinking of what I'll do to my models.

I got to thinking about this project quite a bit lately and pondered about if it could actually fly if it were built as I envision. So did some weight comparisons between the P-51H, F-82G and the FJ-1, mainly because these three have basically the same wing (albeit with different chord profiles)

                Empty            Max'     (in lbs)
P-51H       7040              11,500
F-82G       15,997           25,591
FJ-1          8,943             15,118

I've discovered by comparing my models, that the F-82 is more based on a P-51H than just using wings and rudders, the fuselages of the two (Merlin powered) practically match, with the F-82 rear fuselage being extended along the natural profile lines for five feet or so.

Also, although the F-82 uses two fuselages, it's wing area is only about 1 1/2 times that of a P-51H but the empty weight of the F-82 is way more than twice as heavy as a P-51H.

So with using basically the F-82 center wing for my P-86B, I would imagine that the empty weight for the P-86B would be around 18,000 lbs.  I'm thinking that it would take a lot of runway to get a fully loaded one off the ground, so I got to thinking what to do about it.  I didn't want to make the wing bigger like NA did to the F-82, so I decided to go with slats & flaps.

Sort of like this below.   Here you can see I've matched up some slats to the outer wings and I'm scratch building a slat for the center section.  It will also get some Fowler flaps which would be from inside of one aileron to the inside of the other. I'm also thinking that the ailerons would droop too.  I think with these wing modifications, it should get into the air quite quickly ----   ;)

I also decided to extend the rear fuselages behind the wing after moving the wing back to it's original position. I've extended it 1/2" which is 3 scale feet.  This allows for a much bigger center fuel tanks in the fuselages, and also to counter the weight in the pod that sticks out in front of the wing.  It also allows room for the re-positioned wheel bays, I'm moving them from where they are in front of the front spar in the F-82 center wing section, to in front of the rear spar. I will also turn them around so the u/c leg hinge is near the rear spar.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 04:38:57 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2015, 06:14:08 AM »
Great work Kitnut, I'll look forward to this being completed :) 8)
Although a completely 'new' design you're right about the F-82 basically being a stretched P-51H, N.A. added 57" (1450mm) behind the cockpit, moved the wing moved aft and used XP-51F vertical tails.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2015, 07:27:02 AM »
Here's a pic of the P-51H/F-82 comparison, you have to ignore the lower cowling on the F-82 because it has the Allison installation.

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2015, 01:06:18 PM »
The designer of Mustangs and Twin-Mustang, in his autobiography, tells a different story: the twin-fuselage fighter was a North-American project with no relation at all to the Mustang, but the marketing wanted to sell it as a "Twin-Mustang" with no risk of failure, and Mustangs' parts were included like the canopy and low scoop. As far as I am concerned, I prefer believing the true designer than the marketing selling liers. I found on the Net a picture of the twin-fuselage 1st project: not looking like a P-51 at all, I have it on my computer but I don't have the Copyright to show it here (I don't know anymore the address to direct to it).

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2015, 12:13:32 AM »
I've seen some photos of the earlier proposals Tophe, and you're right, they are nothing like a P-51. However, what turned out to be the F-82 used a lot of P-51H in it, photos and drawings show the connection. Remember, it was quicker to go that route too ---  The only difference between the P-51H and the F-82 fuselage is how the tail end was extended.  Reference books I have say that the wings and rudder from the P-51H were used on the XP-82, but as you can see in the photo above, a lot more was used.  There's a pretty good photo of the mock-up in P-51 in Action book.

There's a number of photos on the internet that are of the XP-82, like this one below (of interest, note the direction the propellers turn)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 12:18:47 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2015, 12:56:24 AM »
The early proposal (I found it again!) is at http://xp-82twinmustangproject.blogspot.be/2011_10_01_archive.html

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2016, 02:48:02 AM »
Been working on the P-86B, slowly though -----

Got my wing slats and flaps sorted and found I had an F-94 cockpit tub (True Details) spare so I've used it for the cockpits as they're in the right time line.  I've also modified where the main wheel bays will be too. I've moved them to between the two wing spars from the front edge and also spun them around as then they're more like the FJ-1 wheel bay orientation.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 02:51:28 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2016, 02:59:06 AM »
The main gear will be mounted at the outside side of each fuselage so I had to cut an opening in the bottoms for the bays. Then I had to angle half of the bay downwards from the underside of the wing to the bottom of the fuselage, I'll modify the bay walls to suit the fuselage section later. Half of the area where the wheel rests in the bay will be inside the fuselage and the wheel itself would slant upwards when retracted. I think there's enough depth to the wing to house half of the wheel without resorting to wing bulges on the top-side but I might revisit that later.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 03:03:32 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2016, 03:09:48 AM »
For the outer wings I used F-86 slats, which fitted quite well after I just trimmed off the fuselage end of each one, removing just enough of the swept wing profile so I had a square end.  The center slat was scratch made from a bit of aluminum strut section, the flaps were cut out from the bottom half of each wing and then made into an airfoil in section. They'll be something like a Boeing Fowler flap.

Like this below, top pic is the center section, bottom pic the outer wing
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 03:27:02 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2016, 08:25:42 AM »
I'm getting there ---

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2016, 08:28:05 AM »
Oh! before I forget, the very nice Falcon clear-vac FJ-1 canopies do not fit the Siga FJ-1, heck even the kit canopies don't fit the kit   ???

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2016, 08:40:41 AM »
Don't know how I missed this thread, but This Is Of Interest To Me. What are you putting in the center wing section for payload? Is that a radar or a giant fuel tank?

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2016, 12:15:39 PM »
Wonderful! The Twin-Sabre is going to be alive! :-*

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2016, 07:44:38 PM »
Don't know how I missed this thread, but This Is Of Interest To Me. What are you putting in the center wing section for payload? Is that a radar or a giant fuel tank?

It will be the radar pod, the idea is that this was a stop-gap jet night-fighter and a natural progression from the F-82, sort of like a Jet Twin Mustang.

Because I'm going with full span leading edge slats, there's no internal weapons in the wing, all the guns will be in the fuselage noses.
I'm going with four cannon (20mm) and four .5's. The cannon will be in the center wing side of the fuselages and the .5's in the outer wing sides.  The project has progressed to be an All Weather Fighter and the additional weapons I'm going with is a pair of Hughes AIM-4B's, these will be mounted just outboard of the fuselages below the wing on pylons and then there will be a large drop tank just outboard of those. I'll then have an option of attaching wing-tip tanks which I'll make so they just slip on. I've left open the option of another pair of AIM-4's under the wing center section between the pod and the fuselages.  I think I'll just put some pylons there without the missiles on them.

Any empty space in the wing will have fuel tanks and of course the extra three feet I added into the rear fuselage will be for an extra long fuselage fuel tank.  I think it will have plenty of fuel  -----   ;)  I've left off half of one side of the radar pod because that will be where I put the nose weight once I work out how much it will need.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 07:48:44 PM by kitnut617 »

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2016, 07:28:38 PM »
Had a look last night if the second pair of AIM-4's would go under the wing center section --- aannd  --- no!    there's no room there. Have to give that a re-think --

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2016, 01:13:30 AM »
You could put the AIM-4s on the wing tips, or add wingtip missile/fuel pods like the F-89. Or maybe a version of the F-94 - either the rocket pods in the nose or under the wings.

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2016, 03:29:15 AM »
Some serious styrene editing going on there! Looking great Kit'  :)
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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2016, 08:17:23 AM »
Thanks Guys ---

Frank3k, some good ideas there. Having another look at it though, if I move the drop tanks I want to put on it to the middle of the outer wing, or line the center of them where the flaps and ailerons join, I think I can get two AIM-4's between the tanks and the fuselages. I'll play around with it a bit before I decide.

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2016, 07:38:13 AM »
OK, two AIM-4's per outer wing is quite possible by moving the drop tank a bit further out along the wing.

Undercarriage has been sorted out, I wanted to "hand" the front wheel so the non-leg side faced outward on both sides, and I needed some better wheels for the main gear because of the extra weight I think this thing will have (if it was real that is   ;)  )

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2016, 01:16:35 PM »
the extra weight I think this thing will have (if it was real that is   ;)  )
It will be real, solid, not a dream anymore... ;)

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2016, 05:08:00 AM »
Here's the result of the fin extension I wanted to do (top pic). I used the top half off my abandoned Beechnut P-51H to do this.

Next pic is of the kit canopy on the fuselage. I had to do some filing of the bottom edge to try to get it to fit but it's still not great.

The last pic is of the Falcon canopy and as I said earlier, it does not fit the kit fuselage as it is out-of-the-box. The canopy is design to fit the Pegasus, Merlin or RarePlane kits.  I had to do quite a bit of re-work to the cockpit opening and also a slight bit of re-profiling to the fuselage nose to get it to fit

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2016, 06:56:45 AM »
Nice work  :)
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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2016, 11:03:41 PM »
Congratulations! When I grow adult, I plan to buy a million Twin-Sabres scale 1... ;) (with taxpayers' money, this is easy)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2016, 02:57:59 AM »
I plan to buy a million Twin-Sabres scale 1... ;) (with taxpayers' money, this is easy)

You'll start another revolution Tophe    ;D ;D ;D

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2016, 07:34:51 AM »
bit of an update

Trimmed the FJ-1 tail-planes so they are same length as a P-51D (top pic)

Pic of a P-51D, P-51H and FJ-1 tail planes to show comparison (second pic)

Trial fit up of the 'big' drop tank I'm going with under the wings, it's a 460 USGal tank which comes in the Airfix A-26 Invader kit. (third pic)

Lastly, I dropped the model but managed to catch it as it bounced off my chair and before it hit the ground. However the loose bits went flying and while looking around for them on the floor, trod on my vac canopy. It got squashed flat and although I managed to pop it back out, there's a huge crease right across the middle of it from side to side.  Luckily I've got three others as spares. (bottom Pic)

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2016, 08:17:02 AM »
A sacrifice had to be made to the modelling deities in order to see this project through to completion. 

Fortunately you do have the three (now two) spare canopies.  :)
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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2016, 03:36:46 AM »
Looking good
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2016, 04:00:10 AM »
Thanks Greg, Jeff ---

OK I've got all the planning done so all that is left is to glue all the sub-assemblies together and then tidy up some parts.

Here's a few pics of how it would look in flight, although after these pics it will be finished and displayed with the slats, flaps and undercarriage all extended.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 04:01:42 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2016, 06:10:18 AM »
Very believable Kitnut 8) :)
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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2016, 06:48:12 AM »
Thanks mate!

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2016, 11:08:53 AM »
Is cool that you even thought of this design and cooler that its coming together. 8)
Can mental picture 1950ish in blue flying from Midway class.

Offline apophenia

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2016, 01:24:03 PM »
Indeed! And good save ... if parts must be trodden upon let it be something you have spares of  :o
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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2016, 02:00:56 PM »
Wonderful! :-* do you hear my clapping hands as far as your own country?

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2016, 11:10:39 PM »
Thanks guys, appreciate the comments

Tophe -  I thought that was a thunderclap I heard  -----   ;D

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2016, 11:40:27 PM »
Is cool that you even thought of this design and cooler that its coming together. 8)
Can mental picture 1950ish in blue flying from Midway class.


I spent a lot of time thinking about what scheme to do it in, the story will go that the USN needed a jet night-fighter as quickly as possible and North American's response was a jet version of their F-82.  However, the Navy rejected it as being a bit too big for their carriers although the possibility of the Marines using it land based was kept in mind.  But also attending the prototype's flying demonstration were officers from the USAAF (soon to be renamed USAF) who were a bit alarmed that the aircraft had just made their premium night-fighter totally obsolete. A month or so after the event the now USAF, ordered the type in large numbers without all the Navy equipment. 

Which put North American in a bit of a spot, as they were max'ed out at their existing production plants.  Coincidently, some RCAF officers were also in attendance at the flying demonstration and they had reported back to their superiors about the performance of the new aircraft, the upshot being, the Canadian Government of the time contacting North American about the possible purchase of a similar aircraft to what the USAF wanted.

An agreement was made that with Government help, a production line would be set up in Canada, and Canadair (which had ex-Canadian Vickers management people) was chosen to be the production center.  But just as the line was set up and had built it's first aircraft, the USAF cancelled their order because more advanced aircraft were being built (and flown).  The Canadian Government were a bit miffed about the outcome and to save face over the expenditure of much need funds wasted, decided to buy the aircraft parts that had been produced so far and finish them for the RCAF. 

As a result, the aircraft went into service not long after and after an extensive test program, were issued to squadron service where they were used to patrol the far northern border.  They were constantly upgraded, until the final version became as is shown below.

So my project will end up looking like this;

http://www.canmilair.com/products.asp?cat=63&pg=29

and I have my decals for it already which have different serial numbers to these.

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2016, 06:47:55 AM »
Love the convoluted 'real world' thinking behind the build, very authentic indeed!! :) ;)
This should look great! :)  :D
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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2016, 09:43:10 AM »
Thanks FAAMAN,

anyway, got the fuselages and wing center sections glued together now.  And I trial fitted the undercarriage to see what the result was.  I had to add a small bit of lead to get it to sit on it's quad-gear.

So here's a pic of it on it's wheels for the first time, I've just temporarily mounted the slats too just to see how it looks.  There's more clearance under the pod than what the F-82 has in it's take-off attitude, and the large tanks are well clear too.

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2016, 12:20:13 PM »
Hurrah! :-*

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #71 on: April 02, 2016, 10:32:41 PM »
Couple more comparison pics

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2016, 12:08:49 AM »
Oh, yeah!  That looks real nice.

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2016, 12:10:36 AM »
Yeah baby!!!
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline finsrin

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2016, 12:23:41 AM »
Enjoyed the comparison pictures.  They add to appreciation of both builds. 
Seen with F-82, really does look like next logical RW step forward in capability.

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2016, 03:12:03 AM »
Thanks guys, comments are really appreciated --

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2016, 03:40:52 AM »
The extensions you have added to the tail look quite convincing and purposeful.  Certainly compliments the whole twin Sabre idea. 
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2016, 05:09:30 AM »
Thanks Jeff ---

The thinking behind the tail extensions is from comparing P-51H's and the F-82. The F-82 works out to have about 1 1/2 times the wing area as the P-51H, and it's about the same for the tail-plane (top pic).  The tail-plane for the FJ-1 has almost the same area as the F-82 tail-plane (second pic). So to make the tail-plane on the Twin Sabre 1 1/2 times, I added the outer tail-planes which as said earlier, were trimmed down to P-51D length  (I didn't want an over-sized tail-plane though).  The FJ-1 tail-plane has the bonus of having the same length chord at the wing root as the F-82's chord plus on top of that, and without modifying anything and where they get attached to the fuselage, the elevator hinge line matches each other perfectly and are in a dead straight line, almost as if it were planned that way for real.

Same thinking went on the fin/rudder, the F-82's fin/rudder is bigger than the P-51H fin/rudder by about 1 1/2 times, but of course it also has two fins. So the fin extension is 18 scale inches taller on the Twin Sabre, not exactly 1 1/2 times bigger but does the job I was looking for.

Interestingly, the FJ-1 wing has almost the same area as the outer wing on the F-82, the wing root chord (sans the root leading edge extension) is almost the same as the wing center section of the F-82 (bottom pic).  The pic doesn't really show it but the leading edges were lined up, the FJ-1 wingtip is a little longer but then a bit shorter in the chord at the wingtip.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 05:40:14 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2016, 04:06:48 PM »
Now I am wondering what the F-51/P-51 would look like with the FJ1 wings :)
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2016, 08:40:20 PM »
About the same Jeff, to a P-51H that is.  Which has quite a bit bigger wing than what the P-51D wing is. I've got a plan to use an FJ-1 wing to do a tri-gear Mustang ---- 

The XFJ-1 had wings just like the P-51H, later FJ-1's had a much larger wing root leading edge extension than what P-51's had but also the trailing edge of the wing got a kink to it, from the inside end of the aileron to the fuselage where the flap's chord is longer. You can see it in the pic I posted of the FJ-1 wing on the F-82. Although Wiki says the XFJ-1 got wings from the P-51D (and the tail and canopy), comparing my model's parts, it clearly wasn't.  If anything, the wing, tail and canopy came from the XP-51F, and I've got a plan to reverse engineer the FJ-1 parts to do an XP-51G (bottom pic). All I was waiting for to complete this was an FJ-1 canopy, not the one you see in the pic, where photos show that the canopy sat on top of the fuselage (like the FJ-1) and not set into the fuselage like earlier P-51's.

For sometime I had been wondering why the XP-51F and XP-51G had such a huge canopy. Then last year or so, I came across some new photos (to me anyway) which went a long way of explaining the why.  It would seem that NA raised the cockpit upwards (I suspect it was because of the same reason Spitefuls and Furys (Hawker ones) had raised cockpits) and the larger canopy was needed for head clearance. The P-51H had a raised cockpit too, but instead of giving it a bigger canopy, the fuselage sides were built up in metal and a regular P-51 canopy was used.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 06:22:21 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2016, 08:53:45 PM »
Perhaps use the nose gear portion of a T-28 for that tri-gear P-51?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2016, 09:19:02 PM »
Now that's a good idea Evan, I'll keep that in mind.

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2016, 01:10:19 AM »

a twin sabre, nice idea!


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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2016, 03:06:10 AM »
Besides an interesting build this is new to me interesting information. :)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 03:07:44 AM by finsrin »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2016, 01:51:02 AM »
I've got all the outer wings glued on now too, and the PSR process has begun --- hoping to get this completed very soon. Work is picking up and it looks like there won't be anytime to do anything let alone model building.

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2016, 06:43:48 PM »
I had a slight set-back with the build, I was in the Cold War GB and the dead-line was creeping up so started to rush it, but as always when doing that, it looked rushed ----

so I've stopped what I was doing to take a step back, fix the problems I created and finish it properly.

But here was where I got to before I stopped. It will be a 'high-arctic' patroller/interceptor (for bombers anyway) so will have the hi-vis red, now I just need to sort out the NMF which I fu*&ed up

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2016, 10:37:31 AM »
 :-* wow, so nice! Please go on (someday)... ;)

Offline ericr

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2016, 02:52:44 AM »
 :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2016, 06:17:36 AM »
The kit has been fighting me all the way, apart from all the port side (fuselage half outward to wingtip) being different to the starboard side (when it should just be a mirror-image), while drilling out the gun ports using what is moulded in as a guide, I found that again, the port side guns are not in-line with the starboard side (they're higher up the fuselage side). So I've had to fill them all in and re-drill them out.

Then I saw that the chord profile of the wing seems to be upside down, at first I thought I had glued the wings on the wrong way around, but no as the lower half of each wing has the wheel bay cutouts in them and they're on the lower side.  Now all fixed but what I had painted has now got to be done again.

I've come to the conclusion the Siga FJ-1 is not a very nice kit to build ----- I think I'll get a Valom one next to build a regular FJ-1

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2016, 12:25:13 PM »
The kit has been fighting me all the way, apart from all the port side (fuselage half outward to wingtip) being different to the starboard side (when it should just be a mirror-image), while drilling out the gun ports using what is moulded in as a guide, I found that again, the port side guns are not in-line with the starboard side (they're higher up the fuselage side). So I've had to fill them all in and re-drill them out.
Asymmetry is delicious, no need to change into a boring "normal" plane!

Offline finsrin

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2016, 02:04:54 PM »
Wider center wing I would not thought of.  Glad you did cuz it works. :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2016, 05:40:38 PM »
Wider center wing I would not thought of.  Glad you did cuz it works. :)

That's with the slats & flaps extended Bill, I've glued these ones on and the outer wings will have slats & flaps too only I'm still working on the wings. I screwed up the painting of the NMF so had to sand everything off and start again.  What happens when you start to rush a build, things get put on to quickly and then they get in the way when something goes wrong.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2016, 05:41:59 PM »
The kit has been fighting me all the way, apart from all the port side (fuselage half outward to wingtip) being different to the starboard side (when it should just be a mirror-image), while drilling out the gun ports using what is moulded in as a guide, I found that again, the port side guns are not in-line with the starboard side (they're higher up the fuselage side). So I've had to fill them all in and re-drill them out.
Asymmetry is delicious, no need to change into a boring "normal" plane!

Too late Tophe, all fixed   ;)  I'll post some up to date pics tomorrow

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2016, 06:04:01 AM »
Painting is coming along  -----  s-l-o-w-l-y    ;D  I had to sand off most of the red I had done earlier and start again. The anti-glare panel in front of the canopies will probably get revised so the decals I have will fit in between it and the nose wheel bay. I'll probably have to get some more from the decal supplier as the ones I have are too short.

Pics here are to show Bill how most of the leading edge has slats and most of the trailing edge has flaps. The slats and flaps on the outer wings are just held in place with tape at the moment here, still working on the wings ---
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 06:20:06 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #94 on: April 27, 2016, 06:18:19 AM »
A side view pic (sorry - not very good one)

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2016, 12:05:05 AM »
Wonderful! :-* (once more but this is closed to completion now it seems: the delight is thus doubled)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2016, 01:07:58 AM »
Just about Tophe, all that's left to do is to make up some wheel bay doors and the rest is just painting and decals  ----

No more solving problems     ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 01:09:36 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2016, 12:22:16 PM »
Internal paint and decals are not necessary to my taste, but painting the canopy frames will be the final touch (for me). ;)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #98 on: July 11, 2016, 02:22:19 AM »
Got my revised decals now, I had tried to explain to the CanMilAir owner how I wanted the red/white triangle band to be after sending him a photo of how the original band fits to the fuselage. 

I had made a copy of the decal sheet on basic printing paper and cut the decals out that I needed to test to see if they would work. Unfortunately, the forward fuselage of the FJ-1 is quite a bit different to the F-86, not only is it a lot deeper, the shape of it is completely different so how Bill Burns has the F-86 band just wouldn't work.

Top pic is my test piece taped to the nose, the bottom pic is of how I worked out how it needed to be and you can see the difference. I ended up drawing it in AutoCAD and then asking Bill if he could print it for me as I can't get white decal paper around here for some reason. Bill very kindly did print it for me.

The plan now is to line-up the new band rear edge with the forward vertical panel line that is just behind the taped on band in the top pic. The anti-glare panel will now come down to the top of that panel (the gun access panel). I'm also going to take the band all the way around the bottom of the fuselage, hence the two short bits that will be on the front nose bay door
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 02:26:36 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #99 on: July 11, 2016, 02:46:55 AM »
This will be awesome when it is done. Don't stop, keep pounding at it away Robert.
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #100 on: July 11, 2016, 03:17:54 AM »
I've been doing little bits at a time just lately when I have time to do it, we've got family visiting for the summer and I had to get a room that I taken apart, put back together. I've been going from room to room getting the house upgraded to R20 insulation in the walls so not much model building I'm afraid.

I got some of the painting sorted out, as I had to sand most of it off 'cause I bollocked it up the first time.  Cockpit is coming along though, been testing this nice new paint brush for fine detail on it and it's coming out quite good (if I do say so myself   ;)  ) and the pilots are just about done too, just need to paint their faces/face-masks/sunglass etc.

To get the canopies to fit nicely to the fuselage, I carefully trimmed the canopy rail edge so it was the same thickness as the canopy itself. Then I glued some very thin styrene card strips to the inside edge and made them the same height as the metal edging of the canopy (the white pieces you can see through the canopy). I'll use these to glue the canopies to, but I painted up the rest of the inside of the metal edge of the canopy to cockpit grey colour
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 03:23:00 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #101 on: July 11, 2016, 03:25:03 AM »
Here's some pics of the paint scheme I've tidied up, still a work-in-progress at the moment though

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2016, 03:36:15 AM »
I'm making up some decals to add to it too, because of all the sanding and reshaping of the fuselage, I've lost some of the panel lines. I haven't mastered re-scribing yet so I've made these decals instead. There might be a few more later too as I find what needs replacing.

The rectangle one on the left is the engine cover outline, and of course the others are the air brake outlines
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 03:39:50 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2016, 06:49:20 AM »
That's just incredible, Robert and I'm glad you were able to steal time away from a busy house to post an update!

Sure looks like something they should've done even if they didn't.

Will be keeping an eye out for more awesomeness,
Brian da Basher

P.S. My scribing skills are so caveman you wouldn't know I actually use a tool and not a sharp stone.


Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2016, 09:08:38 AM »
Nice work :) :)
Scribing's easy if you make a template using Coke can ally, a pin vise and sharp needle. Tape it in place and just gently go around it 'till you've achieved your 'recessed panel line' detail.
Here's a pic or four to help explain,

105. CatchTemplateSml by Neil, on Flickr
106. CatchTemplateBsml by Neil, on Flickr
107. CatchTemplateCsml by Neil, on Flickr
108. CatchTopSml by Neil, on Flickr

Best thing is it's repeatable ;) Hope this helps :)
Neil 8) 8)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 03:07:00 PM by FAAMAN »
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Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2016, 11:23:46 AM »
Here's some pics of the paint scheme I've tidied up, still a work-in-progress at the moment though
A marvelous result, like finished (for me)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2016, 05:40:05 PM »
Nice work :) :)
Scribing's easy if you make a template using Coke can ally, a pin vise and sharp needle. Hope this helps :)
Neil 8) 8)

I never thought about using old pop cans as a source for template material, thanks for the tip   :) :) :) .  I think I'll give that a go and see what I can do, I've got the patterns already drawn out so shouldn't be a problem transferring it to template material.  And I have a scribing tool with a pin that is good for scribing onto metal.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2016, 02:55:46 AM »
Here's some pics of the paint scheme I've tidied up, still a work-in-progress at the moment though

That is brilliant  :-* Wow!  :) :)
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #108 on: July 12, 2016, 09:39:16 AM »
Here's some pics of the paint scheme I've tidied up, still a work-in-progress at the moment though

That is brilliant  :-* Wow!  :) :)

Thanks, I'm hoping to get the paint much better though.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #109 on: December 04, 2016, 06:03:26 AM »
Hi, OK, I'm going to do my best to complete this one. Then if it goes fairly quickly, there's another to do which is quite advanced in it's build, but more on that later.

Offline finsrin

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #110 on: December 05, 2016, 08:31:20 AM »
Liked this concept from the get-go.  Look forward seeing it finished.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #111 on: December 05, 2016, 06:31:02 PM »
Thanks Bill, it shouldn't be too long, all I have to do is finish off the u/c bay doors, finish painting the pilots and cockpit, and touch up the exterior paint. Then onto the decals.

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #112 on: December 17, 2016, 06:23:24 PM »
Mmh, twelve days later, have you found time for going on? ??? I hope you will complete someday, no matter the end date of this GB... ;)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #113 on: December 17, 2016, 10:24:42 PM »
Yes Tophe, I'm planning on doing some this weekend. It's the first time in 6 months I've managed to get three days off (yesterday though was a medical attention day, mrs kitnut had some knee surgery and I had to have my annual check-up and re-assessment of my diabetes treatment) 

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #114 on: December 23, 2016, 12:16:19 AM »
Looking forward to seeing more when life settles down a little
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #115 on: December 24, 2016, 05:03:13 AM »
Thanks guys for you interest, this is one I hope I can get finished.  I look at it every time I go to bed, 'cause much to mrs kitnut's chagrin, it sits on my bedside table

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #116 on: December 24, 2016, 11:12:47 PM »
Thanks guys for you interest, this is one I hope I can get finished.  I look at it every time I go to bed, 'cause much to mrs kitnut's chagrin, it sits on my bedside table



"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #117 on: February 05, 2017, 12:32:58 AM »
Well not a lot of progress, me and the missus got sick at the beginning of January, had a flu virus so bad we couldn't look after ourselves one day and ended up in hospital for help. Not felt very good since (even after taking a weeks worth of medication) and since then it's been a struggle to get my mojo going.

Anyway, before that happened I had finished my undercarriage bay doors, glued all the pylons, radar pod and fuel tanks on, plus the undercarriage too. No photos though as it doesn't look any different to some of the 'trial fitting' pics I posted earlier.

Anyway I'm hoping to get some done this weekend ----

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2017, 07:32:18 PM »
I'm sorry to say I still haven't got this finished ---  :-X :-X :-X

Began some painting on the weekend but it was a case of do a bit, let it dry, do a bit let it dry. Had to take some bits off that I had glued on because I couldn't get to some parts that had to have paint on -----   :icon_crap:

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #119 on: February 19, 2017, 09:49:44 PM »
No matter the date, the important thing is to achieve a result someday. Thanks to go on.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #120 on: February 26, 2017, 12:04:23 AM »
Done little bits off and on to the project, mostly gluing on what needs to be glued on and painting ----  I've since revised how the anti-glare panel will be though and tidied up more of the paint work since these photos were taken.






« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 12:06:29 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #121 on: February 26, 2017, 12:12:09 AM »
A few more pics






Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2017, 12:44:30 AM »
This was well worth the wait Robert.  Can wait to see it flying over the Primrose Lake range attacking defenceless trees.
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #123 on: February 26, 2017, 01:00:09 AM »
That looks great! I really like the red panels and the updated anti-glare panels too.

Brian da Basher

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #124 on: February 26, 2017, 05:03:28 AM »
Thanks guys, it's not quite up to snuff yet though, still a bit of work to get it how I want it to look. The anti-glare panel now goes back as far as where the tape that's holding the canopies on and down to the top of the gun bay access panels are. Remember when I was saying the left side of the kit is completely different to the right side earlier in the thread, well while revising the anti-glare panel I found out just how much.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 05:07:45 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #125 on: February 26, 2017, 05:46:38 AM »
That is coming along brilliantly Kitnut  8) 8) 8)
"Resistance is useless, prepare to be assembled!"

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #126 on: February 26, 2017, 10:48:27 PM »
Thanks mate!

Silver is one of the most difficult colours to paint, it shows up every little scratch, nick and dent so I just don't feel happy with how it looks right now. A bit of PSR is needed in places and then a couple more coats of paint, wet sanded in between of course. I hope to get the finish to look like my Avro Nottingham in the end

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #127 on: February 27, 2017, 02:18:29 AM »
Done little bits off and on to the project, mostly gluing on what needs to be glued on and painting ----  I've since revised how the anti-glare panel will be though and tidied up more of the paint work since these photos were taken.
:-* Congratulations for this Sabre-Zwilling marvel :-* :-*

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2017, 04:54:16 AM »
Thanks Tophe

Offline finsrin

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2017, 05:09:32 AM »
Configuration is plausible RW at the time.  Could even have been a design study.
Do like it.  :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #130 on: February 27, 2017, 06:31:09 AM »
Thanks Bill

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #131 on: February 27, 2017, 10:33:24 AM »
Thanks guys, it's not quite up to snuff yet though, still a bit of work to get it how I want it to look. The anti-glare panel now goes back as far as where the tape that's holding the canopies on and down to the top of the gun bay access panels are. Remember when I was saying the left side of the kit is completely different to the right side earlier in the thread, well while revising the anti-glare panel I found out just how much.

I use various methods.  I use brushed on paint, rattle-can paint, alfoil to get silver finishes.  Invariably I mix all of them and end up with different coloured/finished panels.  Sometimes it's successful, sometimes it isn't.   I understand your problems with getting it right.  I'll have to remember the sanding between coats.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #132 on: February 27, 2017, 07:23:23 PM »
Thanks guys, it's not quite up to snuff yet though, still a bit of work to get it how I want it to look. The anti-glare panel now goes back as far as where the tape that's holding the canopies on and down to the top of the gun bay access panels are. Remember when I was saying the left side of the kit is completely different to the right side earlier in the thread, well while revising the anti-glare panel I found out just how much.

I use various methods.  I use brushed on paint, rattle-can paint, alfoil to get silver finishes.  Invariably I mix all of them and end up with different coloured/finished panels.  Sometimes it's successful, sometimes it isn't.   I understand your problems with getting it right.  I'll have to remember the sanding between coats.

With very fine grit paper Brian, 1600 or higher if you can find it. Think I use 2400, I'll have a look when I get back from work

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #133 on: March 04, 2017, 11:50:07 PM »
I've had a look at the sand paper I use between coats of paint, and I can't tell you what the grit is -- there's nothing written on the reverse side of it   :-X .  I had a packet of different grits which I bought years ago so the packet is long gone I'm afraid.  The closest I can relate it too is something mrs kitnut uses for her nails, one side of the block (there's four different grits) is almost smooth and the paper I have is like that

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #134 on: March 05, 2017, 08:04:57 AM »
Well I'm getting there, cockpit has been done and canopies glued on & painted. The revised anti-glare panels have to be adjusted ---- taped on some trial decals just printed on paper and found the black edge is now too low

Offline pigflyer

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #135 on: March 08, 2017, 07:17:07 PM »
Bloomin' brilliant, makes me wish I had the bits to do something similar with an F86F and an F86K, thus eliminating the need for the pod.
I bet the finished article is gonna be fantastic. Anticipation hurts.    ;)
If I don't plan it, it can't go wrong!

If it's great, I did it. If it's naff, I found it.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #136 on: March 12, 2017, 04:14:58 AM »
Thanks pigflyer ----

I've had on my mind for quite sometime a different Twin Sabre Dog, a turbo-prop powered one. It would follow along the lines of this project below.  But because a swept-winged Twin Fuselage doesn't really look particularly good in my view, I would use a FJ-4 wing instead of the Sabre wing.

This project below though isn't for a turbo-prop (although it could quite well be), it's my idea for an ultimate 'piston-engine' powered aircraft.
The idea is it's powered by a Rolls Royce Crecy, not the V-12 that got built, but by a theoretical version of the engine that a Rolls Royce engine expert had theorized. It would have been a 24 cylinder 'X' configured engine of 39 litres and put out just over 8000 hp.

So a twinned fuselage version of below would make a pretty formidable attack plane in my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 06:35:25 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #137 on: March 12, 2017, 10:25:21 AM »
Those contra-props really make this baby sing!

Great stuff, Robert!

Brian da Basher

Offline pigflyer

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #138 on: March 14, 2017, 05:21:54 AM »
Yup, wot Brian said.    :D
If I don't plan it, it can't go wrong!

If it's great, I did it. If it's naff, I found it.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #139 on: March 14, 2017, 08:26:01 AM »
Thanks guys, sometime in the future (near future I hope), I'll get some of these other projects finished   :icon_crap:

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #140 on: March 14, 2017, 11:45:24 AM »
So a twinned fuselage version of below would make a pretty formable
And formidable! (in the French meaning = wonderful not dreadful) :-* ;)

Offline finsrin

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #141 on: March 14, 2017, 12:57:11 PM »

To echo Brian's statement.
"Those contra-props really make this baby sing!
Great stuff, Robert!"

Is right on, kind of build I'd like to have done. :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #142 on: March 14, 2017, 06:34:07 PM »
Thanks again guys

and thank you Tophe for correcting my spelling, had a brain fart ------  ;)

And formidable! (in the French meaning = wonderful not dreadful) :-* ;)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #143 on: September 03, 2017, 10:57:06 PM »
Not done much at all lately except a bit of research. I was on the Secret Projects forum when I came across an entry made by apophenia (Steven). Steven has been doing a Canadair designation compilation list and I PM'ed him to see if there was one that was not used around the time of my backstory and a bit before the Canadair CL-13 Sabre. He replied with three or four possibilities, one which fitted quite well into my timeline. So this project will be called a Canadair CL-10 Twin Fury. I'm in the process of rewriting my backstory which will make it a little less convoluted.

Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #144 on: September 05, 2017, 02:06:00 PM »
With Canadian roundels or else, the enjoyment in this twin-plane will be high! :-*

Offline apophenia

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« Reply #145 on: September 08, 2017, 08:15:56 AM »
... So this project will be called a Canadair CL-10 Twin Fury. I'm in the process of rewriting my backstory ...

Looking forward to that  :smiley:
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new land ...