Author Topic: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86  (Read 23145 times)

Offline kitnut617

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North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 -- plus an XP-86
« on: October 19, 2014, 07:56:38 AM »
I've had on my mind for a few weeks a new project, got the idea from working on some F-82's and thought this could have been a natural progression of the Twin Mustang.

I've cobbled this together quickly so what was in my head had a physical bearing.  It will be a nightfighter using the huge pod from the F-82, but it struck me that eighteen forward firing .5's could be quite devastating ---  :o

My project won't have any center wing guns though, and only four per fuselage --
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:31:21 PM by kitnut617 »

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 08:07:13 AM »
Wicked!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 09:20:23 AM »
You'll probably need a center pod as an auxiliary fuel tank.  Those early jet engines were thirsty beasts and not particularly efficient.

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 09:37:20 AM »
Very cool indeed 8) !! Imagine bringing it aboard a pitching carrier :D
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 09:38:29 PM »
Thanks guys

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 09:59:08 PM »
You'll probably need a center pod as an auxiliary fuel tank.  Those early jet engines were thirsty beasts and not particularly efficient.

I was thinking about what we had discussed on another thread Evan, about a USN F-82 and where the arrester hook would have to be located, we came up with an extended pod sticking out behind the trailing edge of the center wing section.

I'm thinking along the same lines here, using a couple of the big radar pods I have spare.  What I'll do is shorten what is sticking out the front (no prop to interfere) and have it protruding about 1/2" (12mm) beyond the trailing edge. The hook would extend out from there but then be retractable into the pod end.

Fuel wise, as I'm not having guns in the wing center section, all available space in the wing will be for fuel tanks, plus I'll have four of the F-82 300 Gal tanks under the outer wings.  Another thing that cancels the use of the wing guns is that the wheel bays will be located right where the ammo storage bins are.  I thought about using the wing tip tanks but the aircraft is already a stubby little thing, it just doesn't look right with the tanks on the wing tips.  I did play with the idea of stretching the fuselage but in the end, decided not to. 

Matching the tail-planes between a F-82 and just one FJ-1, I calculated that there's not a lot of difference in area (in 1/72 scale and mm's, the FJ-I had 1050 sq' mm, whereas the F-82 tail-plane works out to 1100 sq' mm), so to me there's not enough tail-plane for a Twin Fury (the F-82 got away with it because the rear fuselage is extended 67"[RW]).  I'll probably add half of each FJ-1 tail-plane to the outer side of each fuselage.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 04:04:43 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 03:38:09 AM »
That's a cool looking stubby!

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Offline Tophe

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 11:40:17 PM »
Wonderful! I clap my hands so much, it hurts... ;) :-*

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 01:25:26 AM »
Cheers guys !

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2014, 10:20:55 AM »
Matching the tail-planes between a F-82 and just one FJ-1, I calculated that there's not a lot of difference in area (in 1/72 scale and mm's, the FJ-I had 1050 sq' mm, whereas the F-82 tail-plane works out to 1100 sq' mm), so to me there's not enough tail-plane for a Twin Fury (the F-82 got away with it because the rear fuselage is extended 67"[RW]).  I'll probably add half of each FJ-1 tail-plane to the outer side of each fuselage.
That sounds reasonable.  If you need a touch more length, look at fitting the tail surfaces to a pair of F-86 aft fuselages (I'd suggest the old Matchbox kit if you can find a couple).  I'm crossing a Merlin FJ-1 with a Matchbox F-86A to produce a straight-winged XP-86.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2014, 09:11:47 PM »
Matching the tail-planes between a F-82 and just one FJ-1, I calculated that there's not a lot of difference in area (in 1/72 scale and mm's, the FJ-I had 1050 sq' mm, whereas the F-82 tail-plane works out to 1100 sq' mm), so to me there's not enough tail-plane for a Twin Fury (the F-82 got away with it because the rear fuselage is extended 67"[RW]).  I'll probably add half of each FJ-1 tail-plane to the outer side of each fuselage.
That sounds reasonable.  If you need a touch more length, look at fitting the tail surfaces to a pair of F-86 aft fuselages (I'd suggest the old Matchbox kit if you can find a couple).  I'm crossing a Merlin FJ-1 with a Matchbox F-86A to produce a straight-winged XP-86.

I've got a XP-86 (straight wing) project going to Evan, using the said Matchbox F-86A and the left-over parts from the second Siga Fury kit.  I need to find another manufacturers kit of an F-86A though because the fuselage around the tail-pipe of the Matchbox kit is not very round (but I think the Matchbox kit is the only game in town).  I'll use a fin & rudder from an F-82 as it is very close to the FJ-1 fin/rudder for size.

Evan, if you can get hold of Squadron/Signal's Walk Around No.21 - F-86 Sabre, there's a photo of the straight wing XP-86 plus a side profile on the very first page.  The caption for the photo says it's the only known photo of the first XP-86.  But I'm sure I've seen another --- just got to find where

« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 09:22:39 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 01:38:39 AM »
Google "XP-86".  There's an early jets website out there that has a staight-wing mockup picture from roughly the aft 3/4's view.  I'll have to get that walk-around.

if necessary, I've got three Fujimi F-86F kits that are giving up everything but their fuselages for Avon-Sabre conversions, so I've got extra fuselages if I need them.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 02:35:39 AM »
There's an early jets website out there that has a staight-wing mockup picture from roughly the aft 3/4's view. 

In google images, there's a pic which is what appears in the Walk Around book which must be the same as what you've seen (but I couldn't find that web site you were in)but see below, is this what you've found

The other photo I seem to remember wasn't of the XP-86 per say, it was of some other North American aircraft (possibly a P-51 of some mark) and the caption said something like 'notice the XP-86 behind'.  From what I remember of the photo, the XP-86 was assembled too.

What's interesting about the photo below is that the wing is 'all-in-one', like a P-51s.  However, I've found photos of a FJ-1 which was disassembled and it reveals that the wing was built as two separate wings and bolted to the sides of the fuselage (British style)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:57:34 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 02:41:50 AM »
What a killer idea!

I'd go with max guns, but sometimes I go a little over-board.

Watching with great interest,
Brian da Basher

Offline kitnut617

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Re: North American P-86B, or it could be a F2J-1 --
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 02:42:21 AM »
I've also found this 3-View