Author Topic: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank  (Read 26155 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2014, 03:41:28 AM »
I like the look of the M41E Cazador. I imagine a built up hull like that for carrying a Stug type gun. Another option is an armored vehicle for recovery or combat engineers. Think of the Israeli conversions of Centurions and T-54s.
M41 with the M8 MGS turret sounds attractive at the moment.  Also any kind of turret swap appeals to me and a candidate for that swap could be the Italian Centauro turret.  I did something like that with SketchUp 3D modeling a while back but started with an M551 Sheridan and mated a Centurao turret to the Sheridan hull.  The engine deck was also extended to suggest improvements in the engine and drive train and lose that angled back deck.  It was a great exercise in learning how to mix and match 3D model components so it was not all bad. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2014, 07:51:00 AM »
I was so tempted to stop in HL and buy one on the way home today!

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2014, 09:04:47 AM »
I have almost bought an M-41 on so many occasions its not funny.  I tend to buy to themes, usually real or alt Aust ones and the M-41 has never fit but still it just looks tankie, looks right, just want to buy and build it out of the box.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 09:28:07 AM by Volkodav »

Offline LemonJello

  • MARPAT Master
  • Member number 100...WooHoo!!!
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2014, 09:08:51 AM »
I was so tempted to stop in HL and buy one on the way home today!

I did. 40% off.  Was just looking through the contents and it should make for a quick build...except for the completely new turret (I've been playing in Sketch Up with some designs) side skirts and re-positioning of the driver's hatch to the centerline.  This should be fun!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2014, 09:47:12 AM »
I was so tempted to stop in HL and buy one on the way home today!
I did. 40% off.  Was just looking through the contents and it should make for a quick build...except for the completely new turret (I've been playing in Sketch Up with some designs) side skirts and re-positioning of the driver's hatch to the centerline.  This should be fun!
SketchUp?  :)

I wonder if you could actually move the engine/transmission drive train up to the front of the vehicle and then move the turret to the rear of the hull and have a rear access door?  Might be better to just start with something actually built that way from the start now that I dwell on the idea a bit.  Hmmmm, M41 turret mounted on a Marder hull (think Argentine TAM).  AMX-13 turret on an M41 hull (it worked for the M24 Chaffee).  Plenty of possibilities. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2014, 10:15:04 AM »
Austrian Kurassier SK-105?

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2014, 03:46:49 PM »
AMX-13 turret on an M41 hull...I like! :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2014, 05:43:28 PM »
Mmm.....just a thought a multi gun, multi calibre AMX-13 turret on a M-41 hull.  75mm or 90mm HV AT gun, 105mm support gun and a 20-30mm auto-cannon.

Just cos!

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 01:51:09 AM »
How about using an M41 as a proper, fully-enclosed SPAAG mounting for the 20mm Vulcan instead of the M163? Big, squared-off turret like a ZSU-23-4 but with the Vulcan instead of the quad 23mm, and a radar/EO tracker on the back? The concession to lightness could be that the search radar lives on another vehicle (which is a good idea anyway).

If you don't fancy the Vulcan, you could always go for twin 30mm: after all, France had the DCA  SPAAG turret which was fitted to both the AMX-13 and AMX-30 chassis. Heller have kitted both in 1/35th.....
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Cliffy B

  • Ship Whiffer Extraordinaire...master of Beyond Visual Range Modelling
  • Its ZOTT!!!
    • My Artwork
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2014, 01:53:38 AM »
There's always a remodel of the M42 duster with its twin 40mm Bofors.
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2014, 02:15:23 AM »
There's always a remodel of the M42 duster with its twin 40mm Bofors.

I didn't want to make the calibre too big or you end up with a turret that's too big for the M41 hull. Remember, the Sgt.York turret, which is the only fully-enclosed, radar-equipped twin 40mm turret I can think of, was almost too big for the M48..... The French only got twin 30mm onto the AMX-13 DCA because the turret only had search radar but no tracking radar, just optical fire control.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2014, 10:29:54 AM »
IIRC part of the problem with the Sgt York was the ammo feed system. It tried to be able to switch between different types of ammo which I'm sure lead to the larger turret to make space for all that extra machinery. If that were simplified it could make for a smaller turret. Let me check on that.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2014, 10:48:02 AM »
IIRC part of the problem with the Sgt York was the ammo feed system. It tried to be able to switch between different types of ammo which I'm sure lead to the larger turret to make space for all that extra machinery. If that were simplified it could make for a smaller turret. Let me check on that.

That wasn't much of a problem, per se.  Switching from one feed to the other would have consisted of a small amount of machinery.  The problem was storing sufficient quantities of the difference types of ammunition.  HE or AP (in various incarnations). The Bofors 40mm round is quite large.   Now, if they'd changed over to a telescoped round they could have saved considerable volume but decided to go with standard rounds instead.   The other problem was the feed system.  'Cause they'd gone for a continious, mechanical feed over the four round clips, you need quite a bit of space for that as well.

Even so, the Sgt. York wasn't too big for an SPAA IMHO.  It was too big for the standard M48 hull, which was afterall, too slow to keep up with the M1s, anyway.  Putting it on the M48 was just another nail in it's coffin.

What they really needed was a 76mm Otomatic gun system.  That could reach out and touch those pesky hovering helicopters with their long range AT missiles, whereas a 40mm couldn't.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 10:52:32 AM by Rickshaw »

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2014, 11:08:20 AM »
Having now read the detailed Wikipedia article, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M247_Sergeant_York) it seems the ammo loading system was one of the Sgt York components that actually worked. Its death nell was the fact that the radar couldn't find the things it was supposed to shoot at. The fact that it was mounted on a 30 year old tank hull surely didn't help matters.
Back in whiff world, I was thinking of something sporting misslle boxes and some butt kicking guns would be cool.

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2014, 10:32:25 AM »
The recent number of M-41 builds and great ideas for whiffing has set quite a few gears turning in my musty, rusty, and dusty brain. I broke down and bought the Tamiya kit at HL today. If you go to buy anything there check for their internet coupons. They had one for 40% off any one item. Score!! $18.00 kit for $11.46.

I want to try a new engine deck, target acquisition system for TC and gunner, the TUSK system from the M-1 and maybe a new 90mm gun. If not the 90mm gun then a Bradley style box TOW launcher. Add on armor and lots of trash bins too. No promises as to when.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2014, 01:52:17 PM »
The recent number of M-41 builds and great ideas for whiffing has set quite a few gears turning in my musty, rusty, and dusty brain. I broke down and bought the Tamiya kit at HL today. If you go to buy anything there check for their internet coupons. They had one for 40% off any one item. Score!! $18.00 kit for $11.46.

I want to try a new engine deck, target acquisition system for TC and gunner, the TUSK system from the M-1 and maybe a new 90mm gun. If not the 90mm gun then a Bradley style box TOW launcher. Add on armor and lots of trash bins too. No promises as to when.
The new engine deck is great fun to figure out.  I started out originally looking at the M50 and M51 Sherman engine deck and realized it was close but just not working.  My next attempt will focus on the engine decks from several Russian tanks in the stash since the engine decks on most of the modern Russian tanks represent a transversely mounted engine it might actually work out in width and length.  If that fails then it is back to sheet plastic :)
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2014, 09:11:35 PM »
I fondling the new plastic last night thinking about what to do with the same problem. I was thinking of scale-o-rama an M-60 or M-48 engine deck if I can find one. Otherwise I was thinking of scratching something similar and casting some extra louvers from the M-41 deck to use as air inlet and exhaust ports. I'll be checking Prime Portal and any other references I can find. There is a real world M-48 on display about 20 miles from my house. I should be able to make up an excuse to head out that way.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2014, 01:34:12 AM »
I fondling the new plastic last night thinking about what to do with the same problem. I was thinking of scale-o-rama an M-60 or M-48 engine deck if I can find one. Otherwise I was thinking of scratching something similar and casting some extra louvers from the M-41 deck to use as air inlet and exhaust ports. I'll be checking Prime Portal and any other references I can find. There is a real world M-48 on display about 20 miles from my house. I should be able to make up an excuse to head out that way.
Your suggestion to use the M48/M60 grill work at the rear is a great idea.  I had not considered that option myself.  Will have to check and see what it looks like and how much needs to be trimmed off the edges.  Another source for parts might be the Leopard I hull with the side mounted exhaust vents.  Finding a 1:48th scale Leopard, M48, M60, Challenger, or M1 Abrams might help too in finding a suitably shaped and right sized part or parts to come up with something plausible. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2014, 01:45:41 AM »
How about using an M41 as a proper, fully-enclosed SPAAG mounting for the 20mm Vulcan instead of the M163? Big, squared-off turret like a ZSU-23-4 but with the Vulcan instead of the quad 23mm, and a radar/EO tracker on the back? The concession to lightness could be that the search radar lives on another vehicle (which is a good idea anyway).

Been thinking about this for a bit & I thought "What about a towed search radar unit?"
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline kerick

  • Responsible for all surrendered booty....Arrrr!!!!
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2014, 12:46:44 PM »
Anyone have an idea of the diameter of the bolt like attachments for add on armor as seen on Stryker and other vehicles?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jframe.html#http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/staticstryker_army2004-12-14.jpg|||

Grantline has bolt heads for railroad scenery that would work.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2014, 01:37:34 PM »
How about using an M41 as a proper, fully-enclosed SPAAG mounting for the 20mm Vulcan instead of the M163? Big, squared-off turret like a ZSU-23-4 but with the Vulcan instead of the quad 23mm, and a radar/EO tracker on the back? The concession to lightness could be that the search radar lives on another vehicle (which is a good idea anyway).

Been thinking about this for a bit & I thought "What about a towed search radar unit?"

Trailers and tanks don't mix very well.  The driver usually can't see the thing and in an emergency can reverse right over it without noticing.  The British experience with various supply trailers in WWII and after was such that they preferred to bolt a big armoured fuel tank on the back of the Centurion rather than persist with the mono-trailer they'd developed to extend it's range.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2014, 01:54:35 PM »
Fair enough.

My idea was a fairly large trailer with a search radar unit which would be dropped off & erected on a hill top, with the M41 20mm SPAAG moving on to set up in a nearby location as part of a defensive net around a SPArty / HQ area.

Guess it would be just as easy to use a 2nd vehicle for the radar unit (another M41?).
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2014, 02:11:44 PM »
Put the radar on either an APC (if it's expected to operate well forward) or a soft-skin if you believe it will be operating well to the rear.   There wouldn't be enough room in an M41 for the electronics, the operators and the radar antenna.  You'd need to add a big, boxy superstructure and so you might as well go with a vehicle that already has that.

I'd recommend the M577 ACV as a good starting point.  Alternatively, perhaps the M548 TLC.  Then you have your choice of trucks, if you'd prefer to go down that route.  Remember, radars by their very nature don't need to be right up with your forward troops, so a truck might be adequate.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2014, 02:59:50 PM »
A bit of armour might be nice, given the number of HARM's floating around during/just before bombing missions, though. ;)

How about a M41 undergoing a major rebuild (like the Israelis do) with an armoured box superstructure, a smaller (more) modern engine fitted off to one side, layout reversed (so that it is, essentially, going backwards), with the driver seated (at least partially) beside the engine? ???

You could even do something similar for the SPAAG, with a double hatch at the (new) rear to make reloading easier.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2014, 03:24:01 PM »
Depends on what period you're talking about.  When 20mm were effective (they aren't any more), there weren't that many ARMs around, so armour wasn't really required.  Today, yes, you need armour but even so, lots of Search Radars are still mounted on soft-skin vehicles.  I was just looking at picture of the new Swedish Giraffe 4 radar family and nearly all are mounted on unarmoured vehicles.   



It all depends on the range of the radar, I think.  Tactical radars need armour, they're used relatively close to the FEOT (Forward Edge Own Troops).  An area which might be subject to air attack, as well as longish range artillery.   Medium radars are further back, they are less likely to be attacked by artillery and ARMs.  Theatre radars are even further back.  In each case, they rely on their radars to do the detecting, overlooking friendly troops.   That should enable them to detect an ARM when it's inbound and so enable them to turn their radar off.