Author Topic: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank  (Read 18006 times)

Offline dy031101

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2014, 11:34:37 AM »
Not saying it would be the ideal tool for the job but in a role of providing fire support for the infantry by direct/indirect fire, equipped with a bulldozer blade (there was a blade kit for the M41 btw) and the ability of the 105H to reduce obstacles by direct fire with a much larger shell that did not rely on higher muzzle velocities it would certainly look convincing as a model and a what if.

Is there enough room for the same 152mm gun-launcher on the Sheridan (or maybe a version modified with bore evacuator)?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2014, 11:53:05 AM »
Not saying it would be the ideal tool for the job but in a role of providing fire support for the infantry by direct/indirect fire, equipped with a bulldozer blade (there was a blade kit for the M41 btw) and the ability of the 105H to reduce obstacles by direct fire with a much larger shell that did not rely on higher muzzle velocities it would certainly look convincing as a model and a what if.

Is there enough room for the same 152mm gun-launcher on the Sheridan (or maybe a version modified with bore evacuator)?

You are aware how alarming firing conventional rounds out of the 152mm gun/missile launcher was in the Sheridan?  It used to leap over a metre backwards with the brakes locked hard on, firing forewards and when they tested it downunder they were concerned that when firing athwartships it would capsize!    While the M41 was some 8 tons heaver, I suspect the effects would have been similar.  The 152mm was simple too big for a light tank.  Anyway, the Shillelagh system was very fragile and prone to loads of problems, including inaccuracy.    There are finite limits as to what you can put into a lightweight chassis, you realise?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2014, 09:50:52 PM »
How about an Aussie M-41 used & modified by the Royal Australian Marines in Vietnam?

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4175.15


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Offline kerick

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2014, 11:50:03 PM »
Don't forget that with modern ammunition the 90mm and even the 76mm would be far more effective.

Offline TerryCampion

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 12:30:30 AM »
Built one with a German 88m.....I'll look it out.
The M41's a favourite tank of mine.

 >:D

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 01:22:14 AM »
How about an Aussie M-41 used & modified by the Royal Australian Marines in Vietnam?
Guy, it was because of your WIP M41 RAM that I discovered we had no discussion topic for the M41 so I blame you :)

Built one with a German 88m.....I'll look it out.The M41's a favourite tank of mine.

 >:D

Which Tiger did you source your gun tube from?  One is substantially longer than the other and the complete rounds are much different in size too. 
Wikipedia - 8.8 cm /L56 KwK 36 for the Tiger I. 
Wikipedia - 8.8 cm /L71KwK 43 for the Tiger II.   

Don't forget that with modern ammunition the 90mm and even the 76mm would be far more effective.
Quite true about the improvements in ammunition performance.  Especially with the armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) rounds that were developed for the 76mm and other tank guns.  Addition ammunition types also help (eg. Smoke, HEAT, WP, Canister, and HE) in making it the 76mm a mufti-purpose weapon system. 

Is there enough room for the same 152mm gun-launcher on the Sheridan (or maybe a version modified with bore evacuator)?
There is an image on the interweb showing what appears to be a very early M551 turret that is mounted on an M41 hull and it is described as "the T49 light tank"(click link to view image).  More on the T49 at this link: T49 Light Tank – US upcoming tier 8 (Warning!  This appears to be a WoT oriented blog.)  The image shows the Sheridan turret with gun mounted on the M41 hull but major components are missing such as the commanders cupola and a host of other necessary things that would indicate a potentially functional combat vehicle instead of a test vehicle.  Seeing that turret mounted on the M41 hull certainly makes you wonder how the M41 would have fared with the 152mm gun when it was actually fired with a conventional high explosive or HEAT round?  The M13 (MGM-51) Shillelagh guided missile did not require as much propellant to launch from the gun/missile launcher so recoil was much less in comparison to the standard 152mm ammunition types.  The image I linked to above from the blog has the following description with that image: " XM551 (prototype Sheridan) turret mounted on a M41 chassis.  Very little is known about it other than in July 1962, XM551 test bed turret was mounted on the M41 chassis for the evaluation of firepower and tests. These tests took place in Aberdeen [Proving Ground, MD] – they started on 23.8.1962, with 590 rounds being fired from the 152mm gun-launcher." So it appears that the 152mm gun/missile launcher system would work on the M41 and as much as I dislike the shape of the M41 turret, I absolutely hate the shape of the M551 turret.  Personal preferences and likes aside, it looks like it was tested, it worked and that was it.  So if you want to mate Sheridan turret to M41 hull I see no reason aside from the aesthetics to not do so. 

Other vehicles based on the M41 components that I am aware of are the M42 'Duster' twin 40mm SPAAG and the M8 high speed tractor which was used as the prime mover for a number of then in service large caliber artillery pieces (155mm Gun and 8.0" howitzer).  Spain did develop M41E Cazador as an anti-tank guided missile carrier based on a modified M41 hull that carried the Emerson TOW turret (same system used on the M901 ITV)

***update***

Missed the following M41 related vehicles:
JED Site - M44 Self-propelled 155mm Howitzer
Wikipedia - M44 Self-Propelled 155mm Howitzer
JED Site - M52 Self-propelled 105mm Howitzer
Wikipedia - M75 Armored Personnel Carrier


« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 04:30:45 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Weaver

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2014, 02:52:33 AM »
This is the gun I'd like to see on it:



90mm GIAT F4, who's APFSDS round is claimed to be able to penetrate the glacis of a baseline T-72 at 2000m.  If that 8.5 tonne armoured car can carry it in it's 2-man turret, I see no reason why the 23.5 ton M-41 couldn't fit it in it's 3-man turret.

More info: http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3586.html
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 03:51:18 AM by Weaver »
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 04:29:03 AM »
This is the gun I'd like to see on it:



90mm GIAT F4, who's APFSDS round is claimed to be able to penetrate the glacis of a baseline T-72 at 2000m.  If that 8.5 tonne armoured car can carry it in it's 2-man turret, I see no reason why the 23.5 ton M-41 couldn't fit it in it's 3-man turret.

More info: http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3586.html


See no reason why it could not be since Cadillac Gage mounted their Stingray turret armed with the M68/L7 105mm gun fitted with a muzzle break to reduce recoil forces on the M41 hull and named it the M41 "Bulldog Stingray." 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 04:42:22 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline kerick

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 08:44:31 AM »
I like the look of the M41E Cazador. I imagine a built up hull like that for carrying a Stug type gun. Another option is an armored vehicle for recovery or combat engineers. Think of the Israeli conversions of Centurions and T-54s.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2014, 02:59:55 AM »
A subtle whiff:  in the 1960s Argentina almost acquired M41s...they went on to develop the TAM tank instead.
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2014, 03:41:28 AM »
I like the look of the M41E Cazador. I imagine a built up hull like that for carrying a Stug type gun. Another option is an armored vehicle for recovery or combat engineers. Think of the Israeli conversions of Centurions and T-54s.
M41 with the M8 MGS turret sounds attractive at the moment.  Also any kind of turret swap appeals to me and a candidate for that swap could be the Italian Centauro turret.  I did something like that with SketchUp 3D modeling a while back but started with an M551 Sheridan and mated a Centurao turret to the Sheridan hull.  The engine deck was also extended to suggest improvements in the engine and drive train and lose that angled back deck.  It was a great exercise in learning how to mix and match 3D model components so it was not all bad. 
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Offline kerick

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2014, 07:51:00 AM »
I was so tempted to stop in HL and buy one on the way home today!

Offline Volkodav

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2014, 09:04:47 AM »
I have almost bought an M-41 on so many occasions its not funny.  I tend to buy to themes, usually real or alt Aust ones and the M-41 has never fit but still it just looks tankie, looks right, just want to buy and build it out of the box.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 09:28:07 AM by Volkodav »

Offline LemonJello

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2014, 09:08:51 AM »
I was so tempted to stop in HL and buy one on the way home today!

I did. 40% off.  Was just looking through the contents and it should make for a quick build...except for the completely new turret (I've been playing in Sketch Up with some designs) side skirts and re-positioning of the driver's hatch to the centerline.  This should be fun!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M41 Walker ''Bulldog'' Light Tank
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2014, 09:47:12 AM »
I was so tempted to stop in HL and buy one on the way home today!
I did. 40% off.  Was just looking through the contents and it should make for a quick build...except for the completely new turret (I've been playing in Sketch Up with some designs) side skirts and re-positioning of the driver's hatch to the centerline.  This should be fun!
SketchUp?  :)

I wonder if you could actually move the engine/transmission drive train up to the front of the vehicle and then move the turret to the rear of the hull and have a rear access door?  Might be better to just start with something actually built that way from the start now that I dwell on the idea a bit.  Hmmmm, M41 turret mounted on a Marder hull (think Argentine TAM).  AMX-13 turret on an M41 hull (it worked for the M24 Chaffee).  Plenty of possibilities. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg