Author Topic: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 50592 times)

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Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 19, 2012, 06:44:43 PM »
Hi folks,

A thread for your Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration.

To start with, I have always liked the look of the T-72 Moderna modification.



Speaking of which, does anyone know of a conversion in 1/35?

Regards,

Greg
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 08:45:06 PM »
I thought Panzershop may have had one, but a look into their site suggests not, which is a great pity as it's a great looking piece of hardware.

I'd also like to see a BMP-T conversion too as that too is a wild looking ride.

Regards,

John
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 08:54:23 AM »
I did not illustrate the presence of an aft ramp, but how about a proper counterpart to Merkava by reversing the chassis?



Does anyone know what other land-based AFVs also use the Oerlikon KAA?
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 01:08:33 PM »
I did not illustrate the presence of an aft ramp, but how about a proper counterpart to Merkava by reversing the chassis?



Does anyone know what other land-based AFVs also use the Oerlikon KAA?


Whoa! What did you do to make that exactly?  :-*
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 05:01:42 AM »
I've always liked the funky Grotte TG-1.





Some drawings here:
http://www.smcars.net/forums/tanks/9926-tg-experimental-heavy-tank.html

The Soviets had loads of weirdness during the between the Wars period.
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Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 05:08:02 AM »
And who said vodka was bad...
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 05:31:38 AM »
Su-14 family of experimental super-heavy SPGs:
http://bronetehnika.narod.ru/su14/su14.html


SU-14-BR-2, 203mm gun, T-35 chassis.
This monster is in the Kubinka Museum:


Translated page: http://tinyurl.com/6vzj4jj
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 05:54:05 AM by jcf »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 05:35:46 AM »
Is big..is Russian...is good!  Da?!
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 05:41:49 AM »
The whole site from whence the SU-14 stuff originated is simply wonderful:
http://www.bronetehnika.narod.ru/

 :icon_fsm:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 05:53:44 AM by jcf »
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 07:31:32 AM »
Whoa! What did you do to make that exactly?  :-*

I just reversed the wheels and tracks as well as the relative position of the turret from the T-72-120 line drawing (leaving the sand shields be though) and then drew the hull top outlines using the Merkava for reference.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 08:32:50 AM »
I wonder if KV-1S is big enough to take a KV-5 turret:


And then given my fascination with tanks having MG-armed sub-turrets and all:



...... wouldn't a T-28 equipped with KV suspension AND a 95mm main gun just kick-a*s (although its armour would be equivalent to early-Pz.IV at best)?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 08:52:14 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 04:44:25 AM »
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this one yet - Object 279:









Regards,

Greg
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 08:16:51 AM »
Although arguably a hybrid of T-55 and M60 (as in Patton, provided by the US that believed the Sino-Soviet Split to be the beginning of a beautiful friendship) tanks by this point, there is the ZTZ-88/-88A/-88B from the PRC.

And then I did see fit to cook up a breakthrough tank version packing a 122mm gun, in the same vein as the Obyekt 430U.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 10:24:39 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2012, 09:39:22 AM »
 This is shaping up to be a terrific thread-I've been wanting a good set of plan views for the TG-1 for years. Thanks, JCF!

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 09:56:46 AM »
I'd also like to see a BMP-T conversion too as that too is a wild looking ride.

S.P. Designs do a conversion - purchase his stuff at the Sargeant at Arms website.  I heard that SP Design's newer stuff is almost as good as AA and he does many of the odd modern Soviet vehicles.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 04:25:15 AM »
Couple of real world proposals/developments:

120mm Main Gun T-72:




T-72 IFV (ala Merkava)

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 02:38:32 PM »
Here's a firekiller built on an old T-50 MBT chassis. I think the conversion is done by a Slovak outfit:




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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 02:45:47 PM »
Here's some views of the current Czech army MBT, the T-72 M4CZ:









and a recovery vehicle built on the T-72 chassis:

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Offline abtex

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2012, 10:09:36 PM »
Came across this somewhere on the web, Nice idea.


1 - First Section
2 - the second section,
3 - docking station,
4 - tower SAM operator,
5 - onboard radar system,
6 - motor,
7 - Information block 50,
8 - armored compartment (cab)
9 - unit source electric power,
10 - electric transmission,
11 - compartment,
12 - sensors information
13 - the armored cap,
14 - gun.

Offline abtex

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2012, 10:12:53 PM »
Here are a fist full of different ones:

Not implemented projects tanks and other armored vehicles of the USSR. (123)
http://www.alternathistory.org.ua/taxonomy/term/167

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2012, 01:55:55 AM »
 Thats a terrific resource, Abtex, Thank-you! Look around in there, colleagues-everything from wheeled landships to tiny assault guns, to the 'rocket-torpedo' armed BT-5 ( available as a kit from UM. )

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2012, 11:04:29 AM »
No Shermans GB,


interesting.....what if as some kind of lend-lease payback the Soviets gave the Americans the plans/rights to T34?...maybe improved the design for western use?


Or maybe the Americans would entertain the idea of either building British designs in their factory or produce tanks with British influence?

Hum...... widened and/or lengthened Cavalier/Cromwell hull with T23 turret......?


The above suggestion was made in Ideas and Suggestions for GBs/Themed Builds discussion that the Russian T-34 be produced by the allies instead of the Sherman. 

So how about a T-34/85 armed with the 17pounder from the Sherman Firefly?  Add on the various features found on the Sherman and paint it up in the country of your choice. 
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2012, 12:41:30 AM »
Perhaps in a "not-invented-here" vein similar to the German attitude that produced the Panther, the Allied designers would insist on "improving" the T-34. The thing you SHOULDN'T mess with is it's mobility, so the wide tracks, Christie suspension and 500bhp engine would stay. For an allied version to be available in time to be useful, it would have to be supplied pretty early, so the exemplar vehicle would likely be a T-34/76, whose 2-man turret wouldn't be popular. You might therefore see the Western T-34 having straighter hull sides and a bigger 3-man turret along the lines of the Sherman.
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 07:40:25 AM »
Russian experimental tanks.
russian experimental tanks


There was an ISU 152/1. It was an ISU 152,but with a much longer barrel. PST makes/made it in braille scale. I would love to model a T44,and have it armed with a 100mm. I have a DML IS-2. That will be armed with a 100mm.
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2012, 04:20:00 PM »
Accurate Armour do a 1/35 T-44 kit - see here

I have one that I want to do as part of a diorama.  The idea is for WWIII in the late'40s/early '50s (maybe even as an outgrowth of Korea) with the tank displayed in a Berlin setting against some sort of allied tank ( any suggestions?)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 04:24:01 PM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2012, 06:22:13 AM »
Accurate Armour do a 1/35 T-44 kit - see here

I have one that I want to do as part of a diorama.  The idea is for WWIII in the late'40s/early '50s (maybe even as an outgrowth of Korea) with the tank displayed in a Berlin setting against some sort of allied tank ( any suggestions?)


Thanks for the T-44 info. :)

Maybe have it face off an M46? Or a Centurion?
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2012, 06:30:14 AM »
They were options but I was tending towards something more exotic/odder...just don't know what yet.  Maybe an updated E-100 or Conqueror tank (bit early I know) or Tortoise Superheavy Tank or Caernarvon tank...
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 05:23:47 PM »
I have a question: how would stand Object 279 fuselage as a mine/IED-proof vehicle in modern, Afghanistan-like environment? For me it looks pretty thought for withstanding explosion underneath it and saving crew. Only issue may be complex tracks system.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 01:06:46 AM »
I have a question: how would stand Object 279 fuselage as a mine/IED-proof vehicle in modern, Afghanistan-like environment? For me it looks pretty thought for withstanding explosion underneath it and saving crew. Only issue may be complex tracks system.

A copper shaped charge would probably penetrate into the tank if it used 1950s steel; modern metals and ceramics would be an improvement. The hull shape could deflect much of a blast from directly below or from the side. The tracks may help by absorbing some of the blast (and hurt by producing lots of steel shrapnel)  but the tank would probably be immobilized.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 09:18:55 AM »
I have one that I want to do as part of a diorama.  The idea is for WWIII in the late'40s/early '50s (maybe even as an outgrowth of Korea) with the tank displayed in a Berlin setting against some sort of allied tank ( any suggestions?)

I’ve had some ideas before about something similar along the lines of the “Unthinkable War” breaking out between the western Allies with de-Nazified Germany and the Soviet Union allied with Japan in mid 1945. Personally I think the Soviets would be pounded but it would take a few years. But for a diorama:

British Tank: Prototype Centurion with the 20mm Polsten would look good also an upgraded Comet tank with plates of sloped armour welded to the hull front and mantlet? Plus of course the Tortise and Conqueror. To make the later look more in place for the 1940s you could replace the 120mm with the 20 Pounder and the commander’s mini turret with the cupola from a Centurion.

British Infantry: British WWII infantry armed with EM-2 7mm rifles or if you want to be super 1948ish accurate some kind of magazine feed wooden stock rifle (can’t remember what it was called), the EM-1 Korsac (7.92mm) or if they are allied with the Germans one of their 7.92x33mm assault rifles. You could even jazz them up with some kind of ex German camouflage smocks.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2012, 04:22:42 AM »

British Tank: Prototype Centurion with the 20mm Polsten would look good also an upgraded Comet tank with plates of sloped armour welded to the hull front and mantlet?

British Infantry: British WWII infantry armed with EM-2 7mm rifles or if you want to be super 1948ish accurate some kind of magazine feed wooden stock rifle (can’t remember what it was called), the EM-1 Korsac (7.92mm) or if they are allied with the Germans one of their 7.92x33mm assault rifles. You could even jazz them up with some kind of ex German camouflage smocks.

I'm liking your thinking. :)
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2012, 08:59:47 AM »
I believe it's called Object 115.

Looks like a modernised T-28 idea....... again needs a 85mm or 95mm gun IMO.  >:D

And it could use more of a slope for the glacis armour......
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:01:33 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2012, 02:44:06 AM »
New Soviet Russian Tank ;)Article


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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2012, 07:02:48 AM »
ooooohhhhh, that is sweet lookin!
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2012, 10:36:36 AM »
Tank-EX, Indian development by combining Arjun turret with T-72 hull.

I still kinda feel that it was a pretty good idea for India, but oh well......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2012, 04:25:13 PM »
A few interesting soviet thingies from my collection .....


The "Koalitcia-SV" 2S19 152x2 SPG





WZT-SU Armoured Recovery Vehicle




ZSU23 "Junker"


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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2012, 01:14:16 AM »
Tank-EX, Indian development by combining Arjun turret with T-72 hull.

I still kinda feel that it was a pretty good idea for India, but oh well......

It looks top-heavy with that massive turret. Now I'm thinking of some samosas and pakoras and a cold Kingfisher for lunch...

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2012, 02:56:26 AM »
I have long liked the look of the TOS-1:



TOS-1- Buratino : ( Heavy Flamethrower System )
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2013, 02:31:42 AM »
Random idea:

I seem to recall that in the early days of their existence, there was a chance that Israel would be backed by the USSR rather then the west.  Therefore, what if this happened and every kibbutz had their own T-34?

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2013, 05:51:23 AM »
Random idea:
I seem to recall that in the early days of their existence, there was a chance that Israel would be backed by the USSR rather then the west.  Therefore, what if this happened and every kibbutz had their own T-34?

thanks to Egypt & Syria, they pretty much do now ;)

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2013, 05:48:33 PM »
A T34-85 in this scheme would look cool:

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2013, 04:07:51 AM »
Random idea:  The Achzarit APC is an Israeli heavily armored armored personnel carrier based upon captured T-54/T-55 hulls. 



What if the Soviets had developed this themselves though?  Imagine the disconcertion in the west to see a bunch of these rumbling along during a May day parade in their parade best:

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2013, 06:26:34 PM »
What if the Soviets had developed this themselves though?  Imagine the disconcertion in the west to see a bunch of these rumbling along during a May day parade

They have designed one but due to finances only a small batch has been produced.

What was originally the BTR-T (T-62 chassis), is now called the BMP-T (T-72 chassis).
BTR-T is now the Russian "Achzarit" type vehicle.  The BMO-T is a similar vehicle with a different front layout - both are on T-72 chassis.

The Russian BMR-3M (T-72 chassis) is similar to the IDF's Nakpadon/Puma -- all "BMR"s are engineer vehicles.

Models below made by Steve Zaloga .... there are very few photos of the real vehicles :(
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 06:30:29 PM by raafif »

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2013, 06:37:49 PM »
I'm actually tempted to do a Temsah conversion on a T-54.  Much more sensible than the Achzarit IMHO.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2013, 01:50:41 AM »
Some images available of the BMO-T and BTR-T at this link: ------> JED Site - T-72 Family of Vehicles

Caveat Emptor!: Access to the JED Site is hit or miss.  Lately it has been no problem accessing the pages but previous experience with this site has shown that what is available today may not be there tomorrow. 
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2013, 04:09:50 AM »

They have designed one but due to finances only a small batch has been produced.


Sorry, I should have been clearer.  I meant what if the Soviets produced this back in the '50s/'60s?
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Offline raafif

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2013, 06:05:17 AM »
There's also the Ladoga (T-80-based) -- to transport 3 people in comfort for 72hrs in any enviroment (chemical, nuclear or gas).  Only a few were built for Polit Bureau members to get them to shelter in the event of a nuclear war.  The prototype was used for recon of the Chernobyl accident site.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2013, 06:45:48 AM »
RV on tracks! 

Excellent! 

Perfect for running down the pesky bunny huggers and tree worshipers that you may encounter during your excursions into the wilderness in search of that last spot on earth that has not been soiled by humans :) 
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2013, 07:20:52 AM »




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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2013, 10:44:52 AM »
Low-rider tanks, what'll they think of next?  ;D

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2013, 12:29:21 PM »
Well Merkava began as a Centurion with reversed chassis......

What if a similar tank began as a T-54/55 with reversed chassis?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2013, 01:25:43 PM »
Well Merkava began as a Centurion with reversed chassis......

What if a similar tank began as a T-54/55 with reversed chassis?

I'm pretty sure that the Russians did that at one point in the 1950's-60s.  Can't find the reference at the moment but IIRC there is on prototype at Kubinka.

I suspect that it was failure 'cause their stabilisers might not have been able to cope with a rear-turreted position.

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Offline AGRA

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2013, 01:38:49 PM »
Sorry, I should have been clearer.  I meant what if the Soviets produced this back in the '50s/'60s?


In place of the BMP a T-55 APC but with the BMP’s 73mm gun turret of course.

A favourite Soviet what if of mine is the Su-101. The Su-101 was a tank destroyer based on the T-44 with what the Soviets called the “Federniand” configuration of rear fighting compartment. These in mass production as the post war Soviet tank destroyer would be pretty cool. Also what would be the following generation? Like a forward engine T-55 with a 130mm gun or something…



Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2013, 10:15:08 AM »


What is this??

Offline AGRA

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2013, 11:09:36 AM »
A blow dryer. It actually is! Used to put out oil field fires by starving the burning well head of oxygen.

Offline arkon

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2013, 07:51:28 AM »
dangit! iwas hopeing it was nascars new track dryer!  ;D
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2013, 07:01:48 AM »
In Soviet Russia they a serious when it comes to leaf blowers...
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2013, 05:00:18 AM »
Need more gun....

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2013, 09:21:21 AM »
I wonder how one would go using the Achzarit APC (itself based one the T-55) as the basis for a Sturmgeschütz style vehicle? 

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2013, 10:22:07 AM »
They built such vehicles in real life - the SU-122-54, a 122mm gun in a casement on the T-54 hull.  Very rare, not many produced and until the fall of the Berlin Wall no pictures were ever seen except for an ARV based on the hull (the Soviets used to often recycle tank destroyers with the gun removed as recovery vehicles).



They also made the IT-130 on the T-62 hull with a 130mm gun:



Both were a hang over from WWII thinking where a large, fixed gun was often mounted on tank hulls as both insurance against the failure of the turreted version and to act as mobile AT guns to be used for long-range over-watch, over standard tank units.  However, with the advent of the MBT concept, of a large calibre gun mounted on a medium tank chassis, the need for them was reduced and so few were produced.

There are some who think the IT-130 is a fake or mixed up with the IT-122-54.  The main source for it is Victor Suvorov who has become in more recent years rather discredited.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 10:27:06 AM by Rickshaw »

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2013, 04:28:56 AM »
Actually I was thinking of something closer in concept to the original Sturmgeschütz concept - that of an Assault gun providing close fire support to destroy bunkers, pillboxes and other entrenched positions for the infantry rather then the tank destroyer role they later grew into.  Therefore something with a useful, though low velocity main gun such as on the Sturmgeschütz pictured below:



Maybe even something such as the 165 mm demolition gun from the Centurion Mk5 AVRE:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2013, 08:45:19 AM »
Them perhaps you're looking at something like the original SU-122:



Or the ISU series with their 122mm and 152mm guns:





or even the monster KV-II



Even the ISUs ended up being used as "animal killers" by the Red Army at the end of the war (more because they lacked anything in sufficient numbers that could take on the Panther/Tiger II at longer ranges, than anything else).  The ISU-122 is perhaps the closest equivalent to the StuG series but the Red Army found it's usefulness limited so replaced them with SU-85s and SU-100s.   The KV II was even more of an oddity and never really followed up (although the Germans were fascinated with it, despite all its limitations).

Post-war, Assault Guns and Tank Destroyers fell fairly rapidly out of favour with most Armies as the MBT concept came in.

The nearest equivalent to the AVRE and CEV (US Army version of the AVRE) in the Red Army was the IMR, based on a T-55 chassis but which lacks a demolition gun.  They were replaced by the IMR-2 on the T-72 chassis:

« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 08:48:17 AM by Rickshaw »

Offline dy031101

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Re: Yugoslav Soviet-inspired Tanks
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2013, 07:40:06 AM »
Found this during a random browsing session.
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Offline dy031101

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Asad Babil, the Iraqi T-72
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2013, 09:14:36 AM »


I heard that it, originally said to not figure any composite armour of any sort, was upgraded with laminated/spaced armours.

I couldn't help to wonder how strong that upgrade is compared to the addon armours of the T-55 Enigma:



Asad Babil Enigma...... hum......

The armoured commander's cupola could be an interesting addition, too:

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2014, 10:42:23 AM »
TR-125, Romanian interpretation of the T-72 (interpretation because, while modeled after the T-72, it leveraged a lot of technologies gained from their TR-85 project, including a lengthened chassis with seven roadwheels to accommodate a Leopard-1-inspired engine):





==============================================

A T-72-compatible upgrade for an even more interesting what-if, the Leclerc-inspired, French-Slovak T21 turret:



« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 10:53:15 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2014, 03:41:03 AM »
Something amusing: T-34 vs T-90

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2014, 07:58:41 AM »
I was so sure that someone here mentioned it, but couldn't find the entry.......

This blog claims that the British were at one point actually in discussion on producing an improved T-34 and KV-1 in their factories.



Top: T-34 with 17-pounder gun
Bottom: KV-1 with a 6-inch howitzer

I'd like to believe the top one, but after hearing about the trouble they went through to put a 17-pounder on any other tank...... perhaps T-34-85 type with 77mm HV would have been more workable?

The bottom one is what caught my attention.  According to the blog post, the British would have introduced a variety of remedies to the KV-1's established weaknesses, such as transmission, but perhaps the most-visible change is the gun.  Wikipedia listed the M-10 howitzer, a derivative of which is used by the KV-2, as having a rate of fire of three to four rounds per minute.  The howitzer in the drawing looks like a BL 26 cwt howitzer, with a listed maximum rate of fire of two rounds per minute...... not to mention in this case it would have been a turreted setup, and KV-2 crew at least had a bigger turret to work within.  Am I missing something here, or is the notion that British had an indirect-firing capability in mind such that a low-rate of fire wouldn't have been a problem?

How was the utilization of HEAT ammunitions in the Western Allies?  The setup would be a bit like the Finnish BT-42 against tanks, and the BT-42 was let down by the fuse used in their HEAT projectiles; would the British have done better (I'm still inclined to see the 114mm howitzer as a better candidate for tank gun modification, provided that they could come up with a better-working HEAT round)?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 08:39:53 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2014, 09:08:27 AM »
A 17 Pdr in a T34/76 turret?  That would have also been rather cramped.  I've never heard the claim that the British were considering production of either vehicle before and it sounds like rather wishful thinking to me.  Fletcher doesn't mention it in any of his books and as he is the expert on British tanks, I'll believe him before a Russian report like this.   I am aware that the British were impressed by the quality and hardness of the steel used in the examples they received of the T34 and the KVI. That is mentioned in the old profile book on the KVI.  However, that isn't surprising when one considers that the best steel in the UK was reserved for the RN's battleships and the Soviets placed a higher priority on tank production.  The fact that fighting in Italy is mentioned makes me think that this dates from 1943, rather than 1942 and by 1943 they already had Centaur/Cromwell coming out of the factories and were starting to remanufacture Churchills and had adopted the Sherman in numbers.

If the British had produced either vehicle they definitely would have had to replace the gearbox and transmission in them 'cause they were notoriously weak points in the Soviet vehicles.  Improved ventilation and petrol tank placements would have been necessary.  External stowage bins on the turrets would be likely.

You are aware that Guderian proposed that the Germans copy the T34?  Compared the the Mk.III and early Mk.IVs it was clearly superior.  Compared to the British tanks in 1942 it was as well designed but a lot of it's design wouldn't have "fit" with either nation's philosophies on tank design.  I cannot imagine why they wanted to put a 6 inch How. in the KVI.  If they were willing to put a put a 17 Pdr. into the T34 why not do the same or put a 75mm into the KVI which would have been used I suspect as a Churchill replacement as an Infantry Tank.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2014, 04:24:14 PM »
Whether the story is true or not, it certainly could make for some interesting whiffs! ;)
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2014, 05:03:01 AM »
If they were willing to put a put a 17 Pdr. into the T34 why not do the same or put a 75mm into the KVI which would have been used I suspect as a Churchill replacement as an Infantry Tank.

If they'd come up with their analog of KV-85......

===========================================================

Whether the story is true or not, it certainly could make for some interesting whiffs! ;)

I still find that 6 inch howitzer a bit of a stretch......

The Soviets also tested their own howitzer-armed KV-1 in the form of KV-9, and unlike seemingly everyone else, they actually had a tank howitzer of the right size and versatility.

===========================================================

Curiosity: can HEAT projetiles designed for the D-30 howitzer be fired out of a M-30 howitzer?  I know they are both 122mm, and Wikipedia claims that HE projectiles designed for M-30 are still in use by modern 122mm howitzers...... I don't know if that means there is compatibility in reverse though......

===========================================================

I admittedly kinda want to see a British-made KV-1 in Israeli colours.  All we had to do is to assume that the British came up with their analog of KV-85......
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 10:15:25 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2014, 08:13:21 AM »
What might not be a stretch would be a 122mm howitzer replacing the 100mm gun. With a 122mm howitzer in place of the 100mm gun you would have a nice mobile fire support vehicle that could be a replacement for the 120mm mortar battery that is integral to the subordinate battalions of most tank and motorized rifle regiments. 

Another alternative for a fire support tank might be to use the 82mm Vasilek auto-loading mortar in place of the 100mm gun.  This would certainly provide more room for ammunition under armor protection.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 08:14:59 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2014, 09:42:02 AM »
Curiosity: can HEAT projetiles designed for the D-30 howitzer be fired out of a M-30 howitzer?  I know they are both 122mm, and Wikipedia claims that HE projectiles designed for M-30 are still in use by modern 122mm howitzers...... I don't know if that means there is compatibility in reverse though......

Yes.  All you need is to put the appropriate case and charge behind it.  Might need a new driving band but I suspect not.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2014, 09:48:10 AM »
What might not be a stretch would be a 122mm howitzer replacing the 100mm gun. With a 122mm howitzer in place of the 100mm gun you would have a nice mobile fire support vehicle that could be a replacement for the 120mm mortar battery that is integral to the subordinate battalions of most tank and motorized rifle regiments. 

You get a higher ROF and range out of a mortar than you do a howitzer mounted in a tank turret.  Both are a big advantage.

Quote
Another alternative for a fire support tank might be to use the 82mm Vasilek auto-loading mortar in place of the 100mm gun.  This would certainly provide more room for ammunition under armor protection.

Same problem as above.  You'd need to mount it in a high angle mounting to get any real advantage out of such an arrangement.  The Vasilek is rather an odd beast, neither fish nor fowl and even the Russians haven't made all that much use of it's supposed advantages over a standard mortar or howitzer outside of airborne units.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2014, 01:23:15 PM »
Does anyone know the turret ring size of the KV-1?

I'm wondering what other tank could use a tank gun adaptation of the M-30 howitzer (à la U-11)......

(I was at first thinking of the Churchill...... until I found its turret ring size to be smaller than even that of the T-34-76.)
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2014, 02:40:19 PM »
I recently posted some quick & dirty tank concepts on my profiles thread, but in case anyone didn't see them there, I thought I'd post the relevant profiles here, as well. The following images are only mockup concepts, not finished profiles. I made them for my own reference and hadn't intended to post them anywhere, but I know there's a number of tank buffs on the forum and I thought they might be interested in the concepts.

There isn't a real backstory to these. I have a few Excel files that I update pretty regularly where I have outlined my "ideal" Table of Organization & Equipment (TOE) if I had my pick of WWII equipment. It's just a little exercise that I use to help me evaluate the relative merits and disadvantages of equipment in WWII. It also helps to understand the problem of things such as "why did Germany use so many different types of trucks?"

Anyway, to permit the interoperation of different types of equipment, I do allow myself a limited amount of equipment swapping for comparable armament, engines, radios, etc. So, here are some examples of the designs I've gone with.



The first is an IS-2 variant. It's actually pretty standard. I've extended the turret rear somewhat to give more room for ammunition and operation of the radio. I've also eliminated the machine gun at the turret rear, replaced the cupola, and added an M2 .50cal machine gun for the commander. I'd keep the original main gun, suspension, engine, etc. I'm really of the opinion that the IS-2 was one of the best tank designs of WWII. The more I study it in comparison to its contemporaries, the more I like it. Armed with the 122mm D-25T howitzer, a single battalion of this variant would serve as an integral part of late war infantry divisions.



The second is a more drastic modification. This involves the replacement of the 122mm gun with the German 88mm KwK 43 from the King Tiger. This would give the tank greater armor penetration, greater accuracy, greater rate of fire, and a greater ammunition load. This would be at the cost of barrel life and much worse high explosive content. This variant would essentially be a late-war medium/heavy tank making up nearly half the tanks in a 1945 tank division. Why bother with this variant rather than a standard IS-2? Well, a couple reasons. First is that it's more likely to engage in tank vs. tank combat compared to an infantry support tank. The second reason is that a tank division operates cut off from supplies for up to days at a time. As a result, 28 rounds is really insufficient for the deep penetration mission. Swapping out the gun for the 8.8cm KwK 43 should alleviate some of this without a reduction in anti-tank firepower.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2014, 01:36:09 PM »
This page has some pictures purported to be those of tanks in North Korean services.

Amongst those there are a couple of T-34-76 pics.

Which reminds me of an intellectual exercise I used to do about outfitting T-34-76s with a remote sensor station for the tank commander so as to both improve the situational awareness and maybe allow the T-34 to function as a reconnaissance vehicle......
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 01:48:03 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2014, 02:46:28 AM »
I wonder how one would go giving a T-34 something like a Kliver Remote Weapon Station?




Maybe also some reactive armour and an uprated engine...
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Offline dy031101

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Any ergonomical fix for tanks lacking turret basket or rotating turret floor?
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2015, 02:38:10 PM »
Soviet-designed tanks prior to T-55 do not have rotating turret floor (which is, IIRC, Soviet counter part to turret baskets in Western tanks), a factor said to detract from crew comfort and therefore crew efficiency.

If it is such an important problem, had there been any attempt to modify those tanks and approach Western standard of ergonomics ?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2015, 07:02:06 AM »
So, are the covers coming off today for the big parade?   ;)

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2015, 07:04:03 AM »
One would expect so
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2015, 07:10:22 AM »
It's a bit like the bad ol' days of the Cold War but with better media coverage!  ;)

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2015, 05:02:45 AM »
Series of photos of the BMPT-72:





I really like this came scheme.
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Offline arkon

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2015, 01:35:52 PM »
^^ that is pretty sharp looking. :)
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: May 31, 2015, 03:05:06 PM »
Impressive and lethal looking.
Color scheme borrowed from aircraft ?
Maybe for display vehicles, not operational use ?

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: May 31, 2015, 05:08:40 PM »
Or urban combat...which is what the vehicle is designed for
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: July 19, 2015, 05:20:20 AM »
Inside a T-72 in operation.  Note the autoloader in action.

https://youtu.be/uTGM1n8CYyQ
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: August 10, 2015, 09:50:37 PM »
Someone has done a much better illustration of the Franco-Slovak T21 "Leclerc Junior" turret mounted on a T-72 hull.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 09:54:41 PM by dy031101 »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: August 15, 2015, 03:01:03 AM »
Spurred by a discussion in another thread, what if the T-55 "Enigma" (see below) was a western development:




the armour added by the Iraqis comprised of armor plates, welded into boxes, to create a sort of spaced armor. Add-on armor weights a total of 4.6 t, so the add-on armor plates at the turret rear are used as a counterweight.

What if a 'Western' version used "Chobham armour" added on instead.  Maybe also add Western sensors and main gun (up to 120mm)?
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: August 15, 2015, 03:09:09 AM »
Further to the above, here are some real world upgrades:

Slovenian M-55S
:  The original 100 mm tank gun was replaced by the 105 mm one with a thermal sleeve. The armour protection of the tank was improved considerably by attaching Rafael ERA blocks to the hull and the turret. A digital ballistic computer was installed in order to improve the fire control system (FCS). Modernization of the V-12 diesel engine resulted in an increase in power from 520 hp to 600 hp.



Ukrainian T-55AGM:  The tank is fitted with a 5TDFM, two-stroke liquid-cooled multi-fuel supercharged diesel engine with boxing pistons which develops 850 hp (634 kW).  It has built-in explosive reactive armour, countermeasures system and two main armament options: 125 mm KBM1 smoothbore gun or 120 mm KBM2 smoothbore gun (120mm version shown below):



Cadillac Gage Textron Jaguar:   It had a newly designed turret. The hull top was new. The engine compartment and fuel tanks on the shelves over the tracks were armour-protected. The Soviet-made 100 mm gun was replaced with the American M68 105 mm rifled gun fitted with a thermal sleeve and a Marconi fire control system which was originally developed for the American light tank Stingray was fitted.

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Offline LemonJello

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2015, 04:02:41 AM »
Like the looks of the Slovenian M-55S and the Cadillac Gage Textron Jaguar.  May have to look for a deal on a T-55 some day...

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2015, 08:15:42 PM »
Post cold war Sweden bought a stack of ex DDR MTLBs, how about they acquired T54/55 or even T72 as well as an interim supplement / replacement for their Centurions.  I wonder what sort of cool things the Swedes would do to update soviet era tanks?

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: August 16, 2015, 05:32:21 AM »
eliminate the turrets, converting them into more-modern S-Tanks ?

Really all they'd need to do is paint them in the splinter cam scheme - that's about as cool as you need :)

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2015, 05:48:06 AM »
BTR-T based upon T-55:


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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2015, 05:52:46 AM »
Who said tanks can't float?





More details and images
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: August 23, 2015, 07:26:18 AM »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2015, 11:23:17 AM »
Captain Ivansky knew he had been screw ice he saw the ss110.
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2015, 05:57:08 AM »


I'm in love  :-* Always liked the enigma too
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2015, 04:45:46 PM »
The T-54 originally entered service in 1946.  What if in a different sort of extended WWII into 1946, some were captured by the Germans and used, just like earlier T-34s etc were.

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #103 on: August 27, 2015, 05:43:07 PM »
I think that the T-44 might have been more likely as it was just entering service in 1945...


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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #104 on: August 28, 2015, 03:00:44 AM »
I think that the T-44 might have been more likely as it was just entering service in 1945...


Maybe more likely but that isn't the point.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #105 on: August 28, 2015, 09:20:00 AM »
Captured T-34-85 and T-44 upgunned with variant of KwK 43 originally intended for Schmalturm.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 12:05:52 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #106 on: August 29, 2015, 07:32:31 AM »
Further to the above, here are some real world upgrades:

Slovenian M-55S
:  The original 100 mm tank gun was replaced by the 105 mm one with a thermal sleeve. The armour protection of the tank was improved considerably by attaching Rafael ERA blocks to the hull and the turret. A digital ballistic computer was installed in order to improve the fire control system (FCS). Modernization of the V-12 diesel engine resulted in an increase in power from 520 hp to 600 hp.




I think that this upgrade might be one of the best looking ones out there for the T-55. Now put a NATO compatible 120 mm smooth bore on it and it would be great. I figure if the Ukrainians can do it then the Israelis certainly can as well. Of course I am not sure how useful it would be fighting from a good hull down position as most Soviet era tanks have dismal gum depression.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #107 on: August 30, 2015, 04:10:15 AM »
A couple more M-55S photos:




You can get a 1/35 conversion kit for it:



Though it is rare as Hen's teeth and I haven't seen too many positive comments about the quality.

It is a pity someone such as Legend haven't done one since they already do the T-55AMB2 conversion:

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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #108 on: August 30, 2015, 07:55:22 AM »
^ Can't be too long now till Trumpeter realizes the sales potential of a new family of T-54/55 kits - and will then give us a dozen different boxings.
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #109 on: August 30, 2015, 08:19:14 AM »
^ Can't be too long now till Trumpeter realizes the sales potential of a new family of T-54/55 kits - and will then give us a dozen different boxings.

One can but hope!  There are just so many variants especially if one starts including the Chinese Type 59 derivatives.
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #110 on: August 30, 2015, 08:39:19 AM »
Speaking of T-55s, I really like the look of the Peruvian T-55M1 (Leon):



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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #111 on: August 30, 2015, 09:13:09 AM »
Thank you for the additional pictures. I just think that of all of the conversions adding armour the M-55S just looks the most like it came straight from the factory instead of just adding armour on. I did not know about the A.E.F. conversion kit. I will be keeping my eyes out for one. It would be great if Trumpeter came out with a version of it. Tamiya makes the Enigma after all.

The Peruvian version is also interesting with the ATGMs on it. I'd be worried about them getting hit by either shrapnel or auto-cannon rounds and detonating though. Though the jet from the shaped charge is aimed away from the carrier tank at least.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #112 on: August 30, 2015, 08:02:46 PM »
Is there anything that Peru hasn't put Saggers on? I'm waiting with baited breath to see their Sagger-armed bicycles..... ;)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2015, 01:11:35 AM »
Which of Peru's neighbors could Peru prevail over, militarily? Brazil and even Columbia are out of the question. Chile is better armed (weapon system-wise). That only leaves internal threats (Shining Path revival?) and their old standby enemy, Ecuador.  I doubt a Sagger would be effective against anything/anyone with post 1970s weaponry or training. Maybe they just like video games?

Still, cool camo on basically unmodified T-55s!

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #114 on: August 31, 2015, 01:15:43 AM »

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #115 on: August 31, 2015, 05:15:37 AM »
Tamiya makes the Enigma after all.

The Peruvian version is also interesting with the ATGMs on it. I'd be worried about them getting hit by either shrapnel or auto-cannon rounds and detonating though. Though the jet from the shaped charge is aimed away from the carrier tank at least.


I'm kind of thinking......

Malyutka is said to be one of the cheapest ATGMs around.

I wonder if it'd still be true for Malyutka M2T, which has the warhead taken from MILAN 2T......



I can't think of a backstory for it, but how would a T-55 Leon 1 re-armed with Malyutka M2T on ATGM rails and upgraded with Enigma armours have sounded?

======================================================================

I think that this upgrade might be one of the best looking ones out there for the T-55. Now put a NATO compatible 120 mm smooth bore on it and it would be great. I figure if the Ukrainians can do it then the Israelis certainly can as well. Of course I am not sure how useful it would be fighting from a good hull down position as most Soviet era tanks have dismal gum depression.


PRC came up with one such 120mm gun.



The caption says:

"59-120 is a modification built on a basic Type 59.  The fire control system was not correspondingly upgraded.  This is a proof of concept vehicle intended to demonstrate that it is possible to fit a 120mm or larger gun to a Type 59 without major modifications to the turret."

======================================================================

Apparently Israel didn't leave T-72 alone, either.


« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 05:24:45 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2015, 02:23:23 AM »
That Israeli T-72 looks to be the IMI Upgraded one.  Specs are here

and another image:

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #117 on: September 01, 2015, 02:30:50 AM »
Speaking of T-72 upgrades, does anyone know if this was real?



Supposedly shows model of Romanian T-72 with French GIAT T 21 turret

« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 02:32:57 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2015, 02:38:07 AM »
And another:  the Croatian M-95 Degman is a modernisation of the Yugoslav M-84 tank, which is, in turn, a variant of the Soviet T-72:


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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2015, 02:40:48 AM »
and back to modelling news:



Supposedly due October!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 02:43:23 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline raafif

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #120 on: September 01, 2015, 06:04:16 AM »
that Armata does look very cool - unfortunately the turret is a fake to hide the real shape etc so the actual version will probably be quite boring.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #121 on: September 01, 2015, 10:32:18 AM »
And if the stock T-54/55 or Type 59/69 turret is for any reason not desirable enough, one can always fit the entire turret from PTZ-89 to put a 120mm gun onto the old tank chassis.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 12:12:58 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline perttime

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #122 on: September 01, 2015, 03:08:36 PM »
Some mods for Finnish BMP 2: camo panels + reduced IR signature, new sensors...


http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2015030319292768_uu.shtml

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #123 on: September 02, 2015, 03:05:49 AM »
unfortunately the turret is a fake to hide the real shape etc

Reference for this claim?
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #124 on: September 02, 2015, 04:01:59 AM »
An oft overlooked one:  the T-62.  Here is an upgraded one:



« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 04:34:53 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #125 on: September 02, 2015, 04:33:02 AM »
Back to T-55s:

T-55M5:





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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #126 on: September 02, 2015, 04:43:30 AM »
Something a little different - the 2S25 Sprut-SD tank destroyer which is based upon the BMD-3:




« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 04:47:43 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2015, 07:42:17 AM »


Oh I recognize that one. Battlefield
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Offline arkon

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #128 on: September 04, 2015, 08:57:47 AM »
Not being an "armor/tank" guy, what is the purpose of having "tank destroyer " over over just having a tank? Seems like all those tds are just really lite skinned vehicles ready to be knocked out just like tanks.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #129 on: September 04, 2015, 01:23:04 PM »
Tanks are meant to be able to slog it out with other tanks, in open warfare.  Tank Destroyers attack tanks from ambush and avoid an open fight, as much as possible.   TD's tend to be used defensively, whereas tanks tend to be used both offensively and defensively.

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #130 on: September 04, 2015, 04:01:01 PM »
^ And in case of the 2S25 Sprut-SD, you have a specialized vehicle for Russia's VDV airborne troops. It can be landed by parachute, is fully amphibious and can go places an MBT can't (lower weight and ground pressure). Of course it won't survive a hit from another MBT's main gun, but with its own "full-size" gun, it can take on other MBTs with a far better chance of success than the other VDV's vehicles, such as the BMD-4 (whose 100mm rifled gun uses only HE shells or ATGMs) or any of the vehicles equipped with the 2A72 30mm autocannon. All their genuine anti-tank capability so far was provided by various types of ATGMs only.
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #131 on: September 06, 2015, 06:35:51 AM »
Updated T-64 this time - the T-64E.  Note the twin 23mm cannon:




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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #132 on: November 09, 2015, 01:25:00 PM »
It would also have reduced the ammo capacity: Chally's carry 52 rounds which is ten more than most 120mm-armed tanks, mostly due to the fact that 104 short fat cylinders jigsaw into a limited space better than 52 long thin tubes.

Hum...... I am under the impression that separate-piece ammunition results in lower rate of fire than a fixed round would.  But what is more important for extended, long-duration operations?  Ammo count or rate of fire?

The ROF difference is at worse marginal.  With a well trained crew, the ROF is comparable to a weapon using fixed ammunition.  With split ammunition you gain greater safety (at the time of it's introduction) and a lighter weight turret (not requiring as much protection) which can be better shaped to meet the enemy's fire.

Because I don't know the handling characteristics of Russian 125mm guns, this exchange makes me wonder if the use of a Human loader can be practical with the 125mm gun in the same way as the British 120mm rifled gun.

Is the Russian 125mm ammunition separated in the same way as the British 120mm?
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #133 on: November 09, 2015, 07:35:19 PM »
Updated T-64 this time - the T-64E.  Note the twin 23mm cannon:

Is it actually two 23mm cannons or the GSh-23 twin-barrelled revolver cannon? Either way, ouch.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #134 on: November 09, 2015, 07:41:53 PM »
It would also have reduced the ammo capacity: Chally's carry 52 rounds which is ten more than most 120mm-armed tanks, mostly due to the fact that 104 short fat cylinders jigsaw into a limited space better than 52 long thin tubes.

Hum...... I am under the impression that separate-piece ammunition results in lower rate of fire than a fixed round would.  But what is more important for extended, long-duration operations?  Ammo count or rate of fire?

The ROF difference is at worse marginal.  With a well trained crew, the ROF is comparable to a weapon using fixed ammunition.  With split ammunition you gain greater safety (at the time of it's introduction) and a lighter weight turret (not requiring as much protection) which can be better shaped to meet the enemy's fire.

Because I don't know the handling characteristics of Russian 125mm guns, this exchange makes me wonder if the use of a Human loader can be practical with the 125mm gun in the same way as the British 120mm rifled gun.

Is the Russian 125mm ammunition separated in the same way as the British 120mm?

The Russian ammo is separate: In the T-72 and T-90, each propellant charge sits above it's projectile in a cradle which is elevated to the ramming position. The shell is rammed, then the cradle drops down a level and the charge is rammed. In the T-80, the two components are gathered up by a cradle and them rammed in one action.

I think you very probably could use a human loader with the 125mm.

Good little animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NIaoOabF_0
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 07:44:53 PM by Weaver »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #135 on: November 10, 2015, 09:00:54 AM »
It would also have reduced the ammo capacity: Chally's carry 52 rounds which is ten more than most 120mm-armed tanks, mostly due to the fact that 104 short fat cylinders jigsaw into a limited space better than 52 long thin tubes.

Hum...... I am under the impression that separate-piece ammunition results in lower rate of fire than a fixed round would.  But what is more important for extended, long-duration operations?  Ammo count or rate of fire?

The ROF difference is at worse marginal.  With a well trained crew, the ROF is comparable to a weapon using fixed ammunition.  With split ammunition you gain greater safety (at the time of it's introduction) and a lighter weight turret (not requiring as much protection) which can be better shaped to meet the enemy's fire.

Because I don't know the handling characteristics of Russian 125mm guns, this exchange makes me wonder if the use of a Human loader can be practical with the 125mm gun in the same way as the British 120mm rifled gun.

Is the Russian 125mm ammunition separated in the same way as the British 120mm?

Nope.  British 120mm gun uses bagged charges which are stored separately from the projectile, below the turret line in pressurised water jacketed lockers which automatically flood the locker if the vehicle is penetrated.   The Soviet 120mm has a split round but uses IIRC a combustible case.  The projectile and case are stored in separate lockers of the autoloader, one above the other in the autoloader.   In theory, if a human loader was used instead of the autoloader, he would be faster than the loader in the Chieftain/Challenger because he would be handling a cased propellant charge, rather than a bagged one but I suspect the difference would be marginal and largely negated because he'd have to be a midget or kneeling/crouched to fit into the turret basket, whereas he stands/sits in the British tank.  Loading a tank gun is just as much about crew comfort as it is about what the loader is handling.   Human loaders will invariably outperform an autoloader on the first engagement but that will slow as the battle continues and the loader tires whereas the autoloader doesn't.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #136 on: November 10, 2015, 12:13:32 PM »
In theory, if a human loader was used instead of the autoloader, he would be faster than the loader in the Chieftain/Challenger because he would be handling a cased propellant charge, rather than a bagged one but I suspect the difference would be marginal and largely negated because he'd have to be a midget or kneeling/crouched to fit into the turret basket, whereas he stands/sits in the British tank.  Loading a tank gun is just as much about crew comfort as it is about what the loader is handling.   Human loaders will invariably outperform an autoloader on the first engagement but that will slow as the battle continues and the loader tires whereas the autoloader doesn't.

Well, the only reason why I asked the question here is that the gun originated from Soviet-bloc......

Using a Human loader is probably to the benefit of re-gunned Chieftain/Mobarez and EE-T2 Osorio......
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #137 on: November 14, 2015, 07:05:36 AM »
What if the Soviets had developed this themselves though?  Imagine the disconcertion in the west to see a bunch of these rumbling along during a May day parade in their parade best:




Yeah good and valid point Greg!!
I'd imagine it would have scared and spurred on the West, just as had happened when Western intelligence discovery, interpreted the BMP-1, which had derived the Marder, AMX-10, Bradley MICV's and doctrine. Would have been very very expensive all round for everyone!

Question, if I may?
Does anyone recall the early U.S. militaries designation for the BMP-1? It was undoubtedly a 'M' designation ! For example the MT-LB was designated 'M-1970', the 2S1 Gvozdika - 'M-1974', the 2S3 Akatsiya - 'M-1973',....... So seeing the BMP-1s were first seen by the West on 7 November 1967, does this mean it would have been designated 'M-1967'? I can't remember  :(

M.A.D
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 07:09:40 AM by M.A.D »

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #138 on: November 14, 2015, 07:12:44 AM »
Something a little different - the 2S25 Sprut-SD tank destroyer which is based upon the BMD-3:

I've always been impressed by Soviet's/Russian appreciation for commonality in its weapons platforms - be it armour of missiles!!

M.A.D

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2015, 10:58:37 AM »
Cadillac Gage Textron Jaguar:   It had a newly designed turret. The hull top was new. The engine compartment and fuel tanks on the shelves over the tracks were armour-protected. The Soviet-made 100 mm gun was replaced with the American M68 105 mm rifled gun fitted with a thermal sleeve and a Marconi fire control system which was originally developed for the American light tank Stingray was fitted.

I guess this would be the Chinese-designed, commercially successful spiritual successor to the Jaguar......

I'm not quite sure if the main gun is a 125mm gun or just a long-barreled 105mm though.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 02:31:35 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #140 on: December 26, 2015, 01:46:46 AM »
Apparently, Ukraine isn't the only country that attempted to make a 120mm NATO derivative of Eastern-bloc tank gun.

(PRC doesn't count, since their 120mm gun is a derivative of the Rheinmetall L/44.)

I've only been able to find pictures for the manually-loaded M-393 designed for T-62, but what interests me is the M-395 that's designed for T-72.  I wonder if the gun still uses a carousel autoloader......

The story also reminds me something I heard online about Russian once attempted to compete for British MBT programme with a version of T-90......

(Actually, Rickshaw, is that you whom I heard it from?  Do you have further information on it?)

=============================================================================

Oh and Merry Christmas for everyone who celebrates Christmas, and Happy Winter Solstice for everyone who doesn't.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 02:08:21 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #141 on: January 20, 2016, 02:57:32 AM »
A while back Trumpeter released this kit:



Well, here are some videos of the IT-1 in action:

https://fat.gfycat.com/BareSlipperyArrowana.mp4
https://youtu.be/dbU5jQZDLaE
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 03:00:21 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #142 on: January 20, 2016, 11:54:54 AM »
Apparently, Ukraine isn't the only country that attempted to make a 120mm NATO derivative of Eastern-bloc tank gun.

(PRC doesn't count, since their 120mm gun is a derivative of the Rheinmetall L/44.)

I've only been able to find pictures for the manually-loaded M-393 designed for T-62, but what interests me is the M-395 that's designed for T-72.  I wonder if the gun still uses a carousel autoloader......

The story also reminds me something I heard online about Russian once attempted to compete for British MBT programme with a version of T-90......

(Actually, Rickshaw, is that you whom I heard it from?  Do you have further information on it?)

=============================================================================

Oh and Merry Christmas for everyone who celebrates Christmas, and Happy Winter Solstice for everyone who doesn't.


It was mentioned in passing in a Jane's book which was published in the early 1990s IIRC.  I read it a long time ago.  Just before the collapse of the fUSSR, when the British Army was looking to have a competition for a replacement for Challenger I (after it's dismal showing in NATO competitions) they received an unsolicited bid from the Soviets for an all ceramic version of their T90 MBT.  It was unique in being all ceramic and also for being considerably harder to penetrate than standard steel armour.  The British were intrigued but allowed the bid to lapse when the fUSSR collapsed and they chose instead the Challenger II.   What it showed was how advanced armour design was at the end of the fUSSR - no Western nation was even contemplating ceramic AFVs at that time.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #143 on: January 20, 2016, 01:14:42 PM »
Just before the collapse of the fUSSR, when the British Army was looking to have a competition for a replacement for Challenger I (after it's dismal showing in NATO competitions) they received an unsolicited bid from the Soviets for an all ceramic version of their T90 MBT.  It was unique in being all ceramic and also for being considerably harder to penetrate than standard steel armour.

Would the ceramic armour have worked in smaller panels (in a manner like most ERAs) or larger blocks (in a manner like, say, Enigma or even Sabra addon armour modules)?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #144 on: January 20, 2016, 01:22:05 PM »
Just before the collapse of the fUSSR, when the British Army was looking to have a competition for a replacement for Challenger I (after it's dismal showing in NATO competitions) they received an unsolicited bid from the Soviets for an all ceramic version of their T90 MBT.  It was unique in being all ceramic and also for being considerably harder to penetrate than standard steel armour.

Would the ceramic armour have worked in smaller panels (in a manner like most ERAs) or larger blocks (in a manner like, say, Enigma or even Sabra addon armour modules)?

Ceramic armour could work in that way.  In this case though, the entire vehicle hull was to be AIUI manufactured out of ceramic armour and then glued together to create the vehicle.   At the time, there was talk of such a vehicle in the West but little real research had been done.  The way forward for AFVs was purported to be composite armour, molded as a single piece.  The Russians, OTOH had decided to use ceramic, which could be manufactured to a higher hardness than steel.   I had doubts about it but apparently they were working on how to do it at that time.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #145 on: January 20, 2016, 01:49:20 PM »
In this case though, the entire vehicle hull was to be AIUI manufactured out of ceramic armour and then glued together to create the vehicle.


Would round shapes (à la T-72 turret) present significant difficulties in terms of structural strength in this scenario?

As one might suspect, I'm attempting to create a mental picture here- T-72 (T-90 was T-72BU, IIRC, before the collapse of the USSR) with a thicker-looking hull, M-395 gun re-engineered with a rifled barrel and redesigned autoloader (to fire HESH and other British projectiles)...... and for some reason, I was reminded of the turret shape of some Chonma-Ho tank variant when I think of Soviet-stype flat-faced turrets:

« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 12:07:35 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline abtex

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #146 on: January 21, 2016, 12:48:17 AM »
Strange things for Soviet and Russian Ideas:
On the Alternative History site -- http://alternathistory.com/
List different subjects on right side.
Alternative tank building -- http://alternathistory.com/taxonomy/alternativnoe-tankostroenie-0

Some that are not (have always like them)
T-35 Tank -- http://alternathistory.com/taxonomy/term/418
T-28 Tank -- http://alternathistory.com/taxonomy/term/75
Need an APC? Based on T-35


Here is some ones take on a T-28 APC:


T-28, T-27, T-26


May help someone or not. But they are here.

Offline abtex

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #147 on: January 21, 2016, 12:56:45 AM »
(Do not really know where to post this, please move as need)
There is also "T-35 as the progenitor of American tanks"  -- http://alternathistory.com/t-35-kak-praroditel-amerikanskikh-tankov

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #148 on: January 21, 2016, 05:45:49 AM »
These are awesome abtex thank you!!  :-*
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #149 on: January 21, 2016, 08:35:15 AM »
In this case though, the entire vehicle hull was to be AIUI manufactured out of ceramic armour and then glued together to create the vehicle.


Would round shapes (à la T-72 turret) present significant difficulties in terms of structural strength in this scenario?


Not really.  The shape, as you note might, though.  I'd expect the turret to be composed of (at least initially) flat plates.  Once they'd worked out how to cast a curved shape, it would look similar to a standard frypan shaped turret.  It maybe composed of individual plates, welded together though, rather than one larger piece.

Quote
As one might suspect, I'm attempting to create a mental picture here- T-72 (T-90 was T-72BU, IIRC, before the collapse of the USSR) with a thicker-looking hull, M-395 gun re-engineered with a rifled barrel and redesigned autoloader (to fire HESH and other British projectiles)...... and for some reason, I was reminded of the turret shape of some Chonma-Ho tank variant when I think of Soviet-stype flat-faced turrets:




That would be a good approximation, I suspect.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #150 on: January 21, 2016, 12:38:31 PM »
That would be a good approximation, I suspect.

Has there been any T-72 upgrade proposal that involves MTU engine (or any Western-European engine, for that matter)?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 08:57:28 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #151 on: January 22, 2016, 03:15:58 AM »
None that I am aware of.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #152 on: January 22, 2016, 12:53:38 PM »
A quick Google search suggests that T-72M4 CZ seems to be powered by a de-rated version (1000 hp from 1200 hp) of the engine used by Challenger 2......

No idea on why a de-rated version.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 12:59:29 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #153 on: January 22, 2016, 01:08:13 PM »
Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #154 on: February 10, 2016, 03:42:42 PM »
This blog claims that the British were at one point actually in discussion on producing an improved T-34 and KV-1 in their factories.


Whether the story is true or not, it certainly could make for some interesting whiffs! ;)


Hello there~ (speech tone of a car salesman)

So~ what can I do to put you (FV 4004 Conway turret) on this ride (British-produced KV-5)?



(I couldn't find any good line drawing for the Stage 1 turret even though I think that the 120mm gun is good enough; the 183mm-gun Stage 2 turret seems even bigger than the stock KV-5 turret......)

Or should I maybe just be content with a gun swap in the original turret?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 09:38:28 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2016, 12:58:21 AM »
Quick mod for BMD-1 : on wheels and Gatling :)
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #157 on: February 17, 2016, 01:07:05 PM »

Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #158 on: February 17, 2016, 11:28:03 PM »
The T72 converted to a movie Pz III or IV is an awesome idea! I'm filing that away as inspiration for my alt-WW II not-Germany setting.

Love the wheeled BMD too!

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #159 on: February 25, 2016, 01:30:43 PM »
Soviet armour '46: the IS tank family

Some proposals:


Offline finsrin

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #160 on: February 25, 2016, 05:49:43 PM »
Tank proposals are all shooting bullseyes. 8)

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #161 on: April 13, 2016, 10:48:54 PM »
Below The Turret Ring: New T-64 version with unmanned turret in the making?





Is it just me or does that look like a 21st century Conqueror turret?





Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #162 on: May 10, 2016, 03:17:25 PM »
Meanwhile in North Korea, Songun-ho MBT (see attachment).

Believed to still be based on Ch'ŏnma-ho (and by extension T-62) but moving ever closer to a T-72-like configuration.  This one is apparently armed with a 125mm gun that is actually a variant of the 2A46 (previous 125mm gun used by late-model Ch'ŏnma-ho and P'okp'ung-ho tanks are apparently a 2A20 clone bored out and modified to accept two-piece 125mm ammunitions).

The specimen shown in the second picture is armed with a twin missile launcher for North Korean copy of 9M133 ATGM.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 11:01:40 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #163 on: August 01, 2016, 08:37:17 AM »
An idea in light of this.



The Conway turret looks kind of "self-contained"...... is it, though?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 10:32:55 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #164 on: August 23, 2016, 01:41:55 AM »
The so-called "T-72 Khorramshahr", which is said to be an Iranian development combining an Ukrainian-designed T-80UD/T-84 turret with a T-72 hull.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #165 on: August 27, 2016, 04:02:23 AM »
New one (I think):

Tiran (T-55) with DF30 122mm howitzer:




More photos here.

I have previously heard of (and indeed, have a kit of) the T-34 with DF30 (see below) but this is the first time I have seen a T-55 derivative that is similar.


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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #166 on: September 01, 2016, 04:53:45 AM »
Just when I was desperately trying to put a 120mm gun on an Anglocized KV-5, I found these KV-4 proposals (yes, I see even less possibility of the KV-4 getting Anglocized than the KV-5, but hey, 45mm gun compared to 7.62/7.92mm MG- Rule of Cute according to me  ;) ......):
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 01:12:05 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #167 on: September 11, 2016, 05:33:40 AM »
Something you don't see too often: South Korean T-80U:

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Offline Logan Hartke

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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #169 on: September 27, 2016, 11:20:17 AM »
Something you don't see too often: South Korean T-80U:




Would be interesting to hear how the South Korean's rate the T-80U!

M.A.D

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #171 on: October 07, 2016, 03:35:33 AM »
Longer version showing that and multiple other interesting ideas here:

https://youtu.be/q3UQDPwV5gE
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #172 on: October 07, 2016, 10:10:11 AM »
The tank they shot with the missile near the middle of that clip looks, to me, to be an early-to-mid-production Pzkfw.III/IV but, although I love armour, I'm no expert.

Anyone able to provide better identification?
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #173 on: October 07, 2016, 10:33:47 AM »
It sure looks like a PzKpfw III Ausf. J to me. Long barrel 5cm KwK 42, but I don't see the spaced armor on the mantlet that you'd see on the Ausf. L & M. I wish the footage was a little higher resolution, but I feel pretty good about the ID, nonetheless.

Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #174 on: October 07, 2016, 10:40:41 AM »
Thanks, Logan! :)
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #175 on: October 08, 2016, 02:54:35 AM »
Agree re id of target tank.  I guess they would have had access to a few.  Would be interesting to know if they used any Panthers or Tigers as targets too.
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Offline arkon

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #176 on: January 07, 2017, 04:32:42 AM »


Syrian t-62(?) found on Facebook
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #177 on: January 07, 2017, 04:39:17 AM »
T-72s, I think.

Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #178 on: January 07, 2017, 04:41:06 AM »
Indeed - see below:



More details here

Note also that similar has done to other vehicles as well:

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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #179 on: January 07, 2017, 04:51:01 AM »
I'm sure it's well worth it, but that solution has to have deleterious effects on the vehicle suspension and drivetrain.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #180 on: January 07, 2017, 12:13:56 PM »
It depends, though bar armour was originally steel it was determined that aluminium actually worked just as well against most threats so it may not be as heavy as it looks.

Offline perttime

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #181 on: January 07, 2017, 04:28:49 PM »
What exactly is it? a lightish outer barrier that makes the warhead go off further away from the hull?
One photo looks as if there's concrete blocks inside the cage.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #182 on: January 08, 2017, 03:08:34 AM »
The blog article that I linked to only said "consists of spaced and slat armour".
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #183 on: January 08, 2017, 03:17:51 AM »
Speaking of T-72s in Syria, get a load of these:

This one looks to have wood on the turret:



What about some rocks/rubble:



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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #184 on: January 08, 2017, 03:22:31 AM »
How about a couple of interesting paint schemes:


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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #185 on: January 08, 2017, 03:29:06 AM »
Modified T-55s:






And yet another modified T-72:




Supposedly, this last one has an entire female crew.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #186 on: January 08, 2017, 04:18:54 AM »
For some reason the last one as well as Reply #176 give off a "faux Leopard 2" vibe to me......  ;D
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #187 on: January 15, 2017, 05:08:19 PM »
I would like to to bring to your attention this again:

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/04/bovington-t-34-and-kv-1-impressions.html

As I go about my GB project, I have this question- the KV-1 has its driver located along the centreline, but the T-34 has its driver offset to the left.  If the T-34 was to be licence-built in Britiain, would the driver's seat have been mirrored to the right like most British tanks of the era as far as I am aware of, or would such an exercise have been deemed an unnecessary hassle?

Thanks in advance.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #188 on: January 15, 2017, 09:04:48 PM »
I would like to to bring to your attention this again:

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/04/bovington-t-34-and-kv-1-impressions.html

As I go about my GB project, I have this question- the KV-1 has its driver located along the centreline, but the T-34 has its driver offset to the left.  If the T-34 was to be licence-built in Britiain, would the driver's seat have been mirrored to the right like most British tanks of the era as far as I am aware of, or would such an exercise have been deemed an unnecessary hassle?

Thanks in advance.


The British accepted left-hand drivers in their American vehicles.  If they were to produce the tanks themselves, they may decide to change the design to right-hand drivers but I doubt it, because of the delay in doing so.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #189 on: January 16, 2017, 02:30:55 AM »
When the Germans upgraded the Czech Panzer 38(t) to make the Jagdpanzer 38 (Hetzer) they moved the driver from the right side (38(t) to the left, to accommodate the gun. If you look at the 38(t) it doesn't seem like a big change - just flip the controls.

In the T-34, the swap also looks simple, except that the driver's right arm and leg would be crammed right next to the suspension springs. A British T-34 would have probably left the driver position as is.





OTOH, it could use the same driver controls as the A-34 Comet, which was a Christie suspension tank and also had a RHD. The driver compartment was pretty cramped, though:


Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #190 on: January 16, 2017, 05:48:48 AM »
Hum......



In addition to the question of mirroring the driver, now that I come to think about it...... who controls that mini-turret on top of the main gun turret?

If that mini-turret is the loader's position, then I'll have to find another place for that rangefinder ......

...... if I can......
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 06:00:53 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #191 on: January 16, 2017, 06:54:08 AM »
How about a couple of interesting paint schemes:




... and the look of those guys  :o

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #192 on: January 16, 2017, 07:21:23 AM »

... and the look of those guys  :o

These guys are part of the Syrian revival of "The Three Stooges". The guy in the front is Moe (as in "Mohamed"). So is the guy in the driver's seat. No one wants to be Larry or Curly and it's a problem.

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #193 on: January 16, 2017, 05:11:09 PM »
 ;D
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #194 on: April 16, 2017, 05:24:21 AM »
North Korean Pokpung-ho IV(?) derivative of T-72:

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #195 on: April 16, 2017, 05:32:55 AM »
North Korean Pokpung-ho IV(?) derivative of T-72:



Little Fat Kim sez, my tanks need "MOAR MISSILES, MOAR GUNS".  :-\ :icon_zombie:
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #196 on: April 18, 2017, 02:17:59 AM »
North Korean Pokpung-ho IV(?) derivative of T-72......


Pokpung-Ho still seems to me like it is based on a stretched T-62 chassis.  T-72 would seem somewhat even lower.

The mounting for the sensor on that MANPADS post seems fragile but appears to be the best position for a commander's camera, given what else's on the turret.

Pokpung-Ho IV is said to be an upgrade programme for the 115mm-gun-armed Pokpung-Ho I.  It seems that only tanks armed with 2A20 and derivative (one rechambered to 125mm is said to have existed) are equipped with ATGM launchers.  Songun-Ho, which is almost certainly armed with a more-refined 125mm gun (could even be a 2A46 copy), is only seen additionally armed with a MANPADS pintle post.

(The museum display Songun-Ho also has the ATGM launchers.  I can't tell from the picture if this particular specimen carries the rechambered 2A20 or the 2A46 look-alike, however.)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 02:52:17 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #197 on: April 18, 2017, 05:07:35 AM »
Lot of interesting details on that tank  O0
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #198 on: May 12, 2017, 11:41:17 PM »
This weekend, Brno is being visited by the pink IS-2 that usually calls the Military Technical Musem at Lešany home:



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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #199 on: May 13, 2017, 01:17:02 AM »
They need to touch up the bit of rust on the left-hand side under the flowers. ;)
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #200 on: May 13, 2017, 01:23:57 AM »
They need to touch up the bit of rust on the left-hand side under the flowers. ;)

Indeed. I can't believe it thought it could go out in public looking like that. Bad enough it didn't have the sense of style to splash a bit of mud on first, but to leave a spot of rust like that...tsk, tsk.  ;D
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #201 on: May 14, 2017, 12:01:36 PM »
North Korean Pokpung-ho IV(?) derivative of T-72:



Little Fat Kim sez, my tanks need "MOAR MISSILES, MOAR GUNS".  :-\ :icon_zombie:

Without doubt, one of the most heavily armed MBT I've seen!

M.A.D

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #202 on: July 15, 2017, 03:42:37 AM »
Something different:

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Offline arkon

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #203 on: September 10, 2017, 04:31:32 AM »
Found on Facebook T-72 Ajeya .
Though it could go in the interesting/weird camouflage thread also.
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #204 on: September 10, 2017, 04:39:31 AM »
Some more of the same:



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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #205 on: September 10, 2017, 01:45:43 PM »
Ah the new TLI scheme!

Offline arkon

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #206 on: September 10, 2017, 03:30:08 PM »
No, I think it's Tl v 😊
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #207 on: September 10, 2017, 06:28:24 PM »
Right! Indian! T-V scheme. :-\
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #208 on: September 10, 2017, 07:20:11 PM »
No, I think it's Tl v 😊

Depends if you prefer Harleys of Ducatis

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #209 on: September 16, 2017, 03:52:43 AM »
Not a tank I know but still interesting and hopefully inspiring:


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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #210 on: September 16, 2017, 05:55:46 AM »
^^^^^
Just beautiful!!! Thanks for posting. :smiley: ;)

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #211 on: December 27, 2017, 04:59:02 AM »


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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #212 on: December 30, 2017, 04:59:34 AM »
Something cool I never knew about the T-54: To replace the barrel, it is necessary to lift the turret off the turret ring and pull the entire cannon assembly out the back. The turret is designed to tilt forward and stay propped open to make this easier to do in the field:


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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #213 on: December 30, 2017, 03:04:21 PM »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #214 on: December 31, 2017, 12:27:34 AM »




Need to do that on an Abrams  :-* "Super Shredder"
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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #215 on: December 31, 2017, 02:28:55 AM »
Now, that would be a cool diorama! :D


One could probably do it using one of the new Miniart kits too given the level of detail they include:

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #216 on: January 14, 2018, 06:23:19 AM »
T-34 and Su-100 still in use in Yemen:

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #217 on: April 03, 2018, 10:13:48 AM »
Just an odd thought, how about an IS-3 modified to serve as a TEL for an early Soviet derivative of the V-2?  Possibly with an engineering vehicle towing the fuel tanks to remote pre-located launch sites.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #218 on: April 04, 2018, 10:19:00 AM »
Just an odd thought, how about an IS-3 modified to serve as a TEL for an early Soviet derivative of the V-2?  Possibly with an engineering vehicle towing the fuel tanks to remote pre-located launch sites.

Basically, that was what the SCUD system was.  The missile was an improve A-4(V-2), the TEL was a modified T-10 (JS-3).


Offline elmayerle

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #219 on: April 04, 2018, 10:30:53 AM »
According to the recent book, the T-10 shared some common background with the IS-3, but was a much different design   Still, I do agree that the SCUD TEL comes close to what I was thinking of, I was considering something similar but for the late 1940's, possibly even using captured V-2 components to a large extent.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #220 on: April 30, 2018, 12:09:34 PM »
Tiran 72. Two approaches


Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #221 on: June 27, 2018, 04:30:58 AM »
Two questions:

1.) I've heard that autoloaders for the T-72B3 and T-90 have been modified to accommodate armour-piercing rounds with longer penetrators.  Is it safe to assume that these are the only T-72 variants that are equipped with such an autoloader (thus meaning that Central and Eastern European T-72s do not have it)?

2.) What is the maximum projectile length that older T-72 autoloaders can accommodate?

Thanks in advance.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline dy031101

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #222 on: July 26, 2018, 07:26:48 AM »
Urban warfare mod for T-54/55 or Type 59/69 loader.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 07:30:06 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Soviet/Russian Tank and derivatives Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #223 on: August 27, 2018, 07:58:03 PM »
Quote
The Tarmour heavy armored personnel carrier is a recent Indian development. It is a conversion of ageing Soviet T-55 medium tanks. India operates around 900 T-55 tanks, that are in process of being phased out. This heavy APC shows some Israel's influence in its design.

   Protection of the Tarmour heavy APC is similar to MBTs. It uses Kanchan heavy composite armor, which is broadly similar to the British Chobham. Explosive reactive armor blocks can be added for improved protection. It is claimed that Tarmour's armor provides all-round protection against RPG-7 rockets. Vehicle is fitted with NBC protection and automatic fire suppression systems.

   The Tarmour is armed with a remotely controlled 12.7-mm machine gun. This weapon station is operated by vehicle's commander.

   Vehicle has a crew of two and provides accommodation for 9 troops. Troops enter and leave the vehicle through the rear door.

   The Tarmour heavy APC is based on a Soviet T-55 medium tank chassis, but has a raised superstructure. It is worth mentioning that India operates a number of ageing Soviet T-55 medium tanks, that pose little threat to modern main battle tanks. Original engine of the T-55 was replaced with more powerful Detroit Diesel 8V92TA diesel, developing 850 hp.

   Vehicle can be tailored to suit specific operational requirements. It can be also used as ambulance, combat engineering vehicle, armored earth mover or mine plough.

[Source]