S-3 Viking

[GTX_Admin]

Just read an article today about how the navy needs a new COD aircraft. Lengthen the fuselage and there you go. I know, makes too much sense.

Errr…the above variant posted by Jeff is just that; a modern COD variant proposal.

[Kerick]

I know, but it still makes too much sense.

[Daryl J.]

Overall Swedish Splinter.   Perhaps it could be converted to some sort of low level land bomber and make use of the forest with all its foldy-bits. 

[GTX_Admin]

Overall Swedish Splinter.   Perhaps it could be converted to some sort of low level land bomber and make use of the forest with all its foldy-bits.

Would that be a Viking Viking?

Maybe they could use them instead of the Boeing Vertol 107s:

[FAAMAN]

Love the RAN what iffs and the COD, great inspiration.

[Volkodav]

Been thinking, how about a business jet version with a version of that retaining its carrier gear to become a specialist USN VIP aircraft?

Something I have been wondering about is I have read that the S-3 could not be operated from the Midway class carriers, yet the Essex Class were able to operate EKA-3 Skywarriors, so in theory they should have been able to operate the S-3?  Also, as the S-3 was only a little larger than the S-2, would it have been able to operate from a suitably upgraded (cats and arrester gear) Majestic or Centaur?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Something I have been wondering about is I have read that the S-3 could not be operated from the Midway class carriers, yet the Essex Class were able to operate EKA-3 Skywarriors, so in theory they should have been able to operate the S-3?

That may not have been due to anything more than the method of catapult launching.  The A-3 and other aircraft from that time period such as the F-4, S-2, C-1, A-4, A-5, and, F-8 all used cables attached to several points on the fuselage.  This was pretty much standard until the S-3, F-14, F-18, E-2, and, C-2 were introduced into service at which time the catapult launch system was changed to the tow bar feature that is mounted on the nose landing gear, it is that little "T" shaped bar that drops down to engage the catapult launch shoe.  The mass of cables required to launch aircraft in the past was replaced by this rather simplified and much more effective system.  Retrofitting cable attachment hooks to the fuselage of the S-3 might have been possible but certainly not cost effective.  The same for the tow bar catapult launch system.  Once the change was made on the aircraft carrier, usually during a very long SLEP, the little platform jutting out from the front of the flight deck was removed and that was usually an indication that the launch systems were changed.  That little platform was an integral component of the original cable launch type catapult. 

Also, the cables had to be matched to launch weights so it was not just a matter of slapping any old cable between the aircraft and the catapult. 

[Volkodav]

Ok that makes sense, except that Midway operated F/A-18s.  That said though I imagine an upgrade of the catapult and arrester gear would still have permitted a quite small carrier to operate the very flight deck friendly Viking in place of the S-2.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Ok that makes sense, except that Midway operated F/A-18s.  That said though I imagine an upgrade of the catapult and arrester gear would still have permitted a quite small carrier to operate the very flight deck friendly Viking in place of the S-2.

You are right, USS Midway CV-41 did retain the horns at the bow so that shreds my analysis rather quickly. 

Yes, the Midway did operate F-18 Hornets at the time she was retired from service.  The retention of the horn feature on the bow catapults aboard the USS Midway was related to the USS Midway operating the F-4S Phantom until March of 1986.  Some of the Forrestal, Kitty Hawk, and Nimitz class carriers also retained the horn feature on at least one catapult to support Navy and Marine Corps reserve Phantom squadrons that were still flying the F-4 for a number of years after the Phantom was replaced in active duty squadrons. 

[elmayerle]

Not just Marine Corp reserve squadrons; the active USMC squadrons kept the F-4 until the F/A-18 came along.  Without going into the history, there are valid reasons why they did (and, yes, there's a villain of the piece in that story).

[Jeffry Fontaine]

What about an S-3 Viking with the ECM pod featured on the tail of the Grumman EA-6A Intruder / EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft or the pod from the EF-111A Raven (aka 'Sparkvark'). 

The model I imagine would be based on the 1:48th scale ES-3 Shadow version of the S-3 Viking which has bulged bomb bay doors for the other electronic warfare systems that are carried along with the option to carry the AN/ALQ-99 Tactical Jamming System pods or other stores on the standard wing pylons.  Further modifications would be to find a pair or two of smaller S-3 Viking stores pylons from a 1:72nd scale kit to provide additional pylons on the outboard folding wing sections for additional items such as air to air missiles or other expendable stores. 

[elmayerle]

Hmm, if doing that upgrade, perhaps also update the TF34's with elements of later, and more powerful and efficient, CF34 engines.

[GTX_Admin]

A different view of a Viking...

[GTX_Admin]

The red text is not mine (I found this online whilst searching for something else), but this image gives a little more detail for anyone wanting to model this proposed version of the S-3:

[Weaver]

A different view of a Viking...

Nice to see that when all the fancy electronic gear fails, they can still look for subs using the Mk.1 Eyeball...

[Weaver]

Random thought: how about an alternative AEW version with a drooped nose holding a flat, 360 deg radome just below the fuselage line, a bit like the Italian EH-101 AEWs, or the BN Defender AEW? If the radome was decent depth, the S-3 might also have to have an extended and/or forwards-retracting nose gear strut for clearance, but on the flip side, that would help with take-off AoA.

Alternative, alternative AEW version: planar-array pods on the wing pylons like the AEW Sea Harrier concepts.

Radically Alternative AEW version: two or four overwing USB engines as suggested by arkon and planar array radars on the sides of the fuselage.

[arkon]

I was at LHS this weekend looking for an S-3. Did not find one😟

[GTX_Admin]

Back in the news:

S. Korea Moving Ahead to Introduce Viking Anti-Submarine Planes Into Service
(Source: Yonhap news service; published Sept 06, 2015)

SEOUL --- South Korea is moving ahead to introduce refurbished S-3 Viking anti-submarine warfare (ASW) planes to counter threats from North Korea, a military source said Sunday.

The defense ministry insider said the proposal to incorporate 12 former U.S. Navy Vikings into service was approved late last month by a military program review group. The latest development comes after the Navy proposed taking over 20 Vikings that have been kept in storage since 2009 to shore up the country's detection and attack capabilities against Pyongyang's submarine fleet.

The twin-turbofan powered planes served as the primary ASW platforms aboard U.S. aircraft carriers.

Such planes can augment South Korea's 16 four-engined P-3 Orion aircraft fleet as well as helicopters like the Lynx and Super Lynx. They can, moreover, bolster the country's short-range airborne ASW capabilities that have been left vacant after the retirement of the S-2 Tracker aircraft.

The source, who declined to be identified, said the Viking plan will be sent to the Defense Acquisition Program Administration for further assessment before it is approved by the national defense system committee that can give the final go-ahead.

There has been criticism that the S-3 is an outdated platform, but the Navy has argued that these planes are being maintained in "mothballs" and are fully capable of being used.

"Using the planes can give the country the ability to deal more effectively with underwater threats," a naval officer claimed. He added that the S-3s are much cheaper than buying completely new planes.

Although North Korea's submarine force is antiquated, its fleet consists of diesel electric boats that are very difficult to detect when they put to sea. Such boats can threaten both South Korean and U.S. naval ships in times of crisis as well as merchant ships, particularly in coastal waters.

Seoul has said a small North Korea sub torpedoed a South Korean corvette in March 2010, killing 46 sailors.

-ends-

[Logan Hartke]

Glad to hear it. I always thought the S-3 was an under-appreciated, under-utilized platform.

Cheers,

Logan

[The Big Gimper]

Take your pick. And help yourself to an A-6 or two.

[upnorth]

Well, if the forest service doesn't want them for conversion to firekillers....

[elmayerle]

Well, if the forest service doesn't want them for conversion to firekillers....

Well, Aero Union did say they would be a better choice for the role than similarly-powered A-10s (side conversation from a job interview over 12 years ago).

[TurboCoupeTurbo]

So no red and white A-10s spewing 30mm firefighting pellets from its nose in front of a huge forest fire? Darn.

[M.A.D]

Ever since I discovered the S-3 could carry bombs as well as torpedoes I have imagined it being used as a COIN aircraft or even an attack bomber

Can't remember where I found this and Google is failing miserably so this is all I have, a print I made 12 years ago of the only photo I've ever found of S-3s dropping Mk-82s.  It's of VS-31 dropping them as a squadron 

That's one cool photo!!

Thanks for posting!!

M.A.D

[Volkodav]

Not just Marine Corp reserve squadrons; the active USMC squadrons kept the F-4 until the F/A-18 came along.  Without going into the history, there are valid reasons why they did (and, yes, there's a villain of the piece in that story).

Just noticed this one, please tell!  Love your war stories because I know from personal/professional experience, in shipbuilding and naval sustainment, that the ridiculous things you tell us about actually do happen.  Your background on the F401 for instance is gold, "lets cripple the USNs premier combat platform for over a decade so as to save several million upfront."