Author Topic: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 15700 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 14, 2012, 10:16:17 AM »
Hi folks,

An area for your Battleship Ideas and Inspiration.



Regards,

Greg
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 12:03:08 PM »
Not having naval knowledge, per se, one wonders if a monitor type ship would be a capable design for open water?  I should think that its lower profile would be advantagous compared to a 'normal' ship from a concealment perspective providing one could waterproof the upper structure to prevent swamping.  In reality, it'd be almost like a surfaced submarine, but subs are infamous for low profiles compared to surface ships.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 12:34:48 PM »
Oddly enough, the Iowas show up on radar looking like a tugboat and barge thanks to their profile.  The super high bow sticks up and then everything between it and the forward superstructure is masked.  Accidental stealth  8)  Although, a tugboat pulling a barge sighted in the middle of the ocean doing 30 knots..... ;D
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 01:38:44 PM »
Some of the FACES II mods proposed for the Iowa-class would be interesting.  For grins, same approach applied to the Montana-class or to H.M.S. Vanguard (plausible since the basic hull is derived from the proposed Lion-class and a battlecarrier version of that class was considered)?

Offline sequoiaranger

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Inspiration?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 12:58:56 AM »
Not to pound my own drum, but I have a whole website devoted to naval what-ifs--"Furashita's Fleet":

http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/furamain.htm#ijn

...that might provide some inspiration/ideas. I have built a few such ships, in 1/1200 or 1/2000, and one in 1/700 (IJN Scruyu) that I have actually discarded   :icon_nif: for want of room.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 01:30:07 AM »
There was always that intriguing idea that they had of fitting Polaris to the Italian cruiser Guiseppi Garibaldi: the tubes were actually installed (four of them at the stern) but the missiles were never supplied. Now imagine a proper array of SLBMs on an old battleship hull....

Picture of a model that shows the GG installation here: http://media.photobucket.com/image/italian%20cruiser%20giuseppe%20garibaldi/mezzimilitari/modmmi08/modellini08-87f.jpg


I did a profile of a hypothetical NATO Polaris cruiser a while back. You could imagine a similar installation replacing the aft superstructure and guns on a BB:

« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 01:34:54 AM by Weaver »
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Re: Inspiration?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 02:23:27 AM »
Not to pound my own drum, but I have a whole website devoted to naval what-ifs--"Furashita's Fleet":

http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/furamain.htm#ijn



Pound away!
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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 02:25:03 AM »
There was always that intriguing idea that they had of fitting Polaris to the Italian cruiser Guiseppi Garibaldi: the tubes were actually installed (four of them at the stern) but the missiles were never supplied.

I never knew that.  Was it part of a bigger plan to give the Italian Armed Forces a dedicated Nuclear Capability?
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 08:45:47 PM »
There was always that intriguing idea that they had of fitting Polaris to the Italian cruiser Guiseppi Garibaldi: the tubes were actually installed (four of them at the stern) but the missiles were never supplied.

I never knew that.  Was it part of a bigger plan to give the Italian Armed Forces a dedicated Nuclear Capability?

Not exactly - at the time, the US was keen to promote the idea of a joint NATO Polaris force, and converting pre-exisiting surface ships was one way to do it without the cost being too alarming. This policy was one reason why Britain went down the Skybolt route rather than going straight for Polaris: there were many who could see the advantage of the latter, but politically, they wanted independent control. It was only after the cancellation of Skybolt that Polaris was offered to us on that basis.
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Online Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 01:38:32 AM »
For those that are interested, there is an on-going discussion and WIP topic for a Modernized USS Iowa and USS Wisconsin battleship at The Ship Model Forum.  I was following the discussion with great interest until the topic was derailed by one of the members that has a problem interacting with others. 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The original requirement for the Iowa class required that the ships had to be able to transit the locks of the Panama Canal.  The Iowa's were built with a beam of 108.16' (32.97 m).  The lock chambers of the Panama Canal are 1000.0' X 110.0' (304.8 m X 33.52 m).  If that requirement is no longer necessary, a new battleship could be built to a better hull design with improvements in the machinery and propulsion systems. 

So maybe a kit bash with an Iowa class and a Forrestal/Kitty Hawk/Nimitz class carrier hull to make a bigger-better-battleship?  Definitely need a small craft launch and recovery feature at the stern plus a lot of Mk 41 VLS tubes for all of those Harpoon, Tomahawk, and Sparrow ESSM. 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 02:35:49 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 05:25:54 AM »
Not having naval knowledge, per se, one wonders if a monitor type ship would be a capable design for open water?  I should think that its lower profile would be advantagous compared to a 'normal' ship from a concealment perspective providing one could waterproof the upper structure to prevent swamping.  In reality, it'd be almost like a surfaced submarine, but subs are infamous for low profiles compared to surface ships.

Regards,

John

 No offense, John, but probably not. What you gain in stealth is lost in much reduced flexibility. From what I've read, the closer a gun is to the water, the harder it is to
 work in any kind of sea. Waterproofing the upper structure will keep the crew dry enough, ( though you might eventually run up against the same problem as a sub-
 running out of air. ) At the height most monitor guns are placed, you'd run into problems with the waves getting in the way.

 Now, I could see high angle fire, coupled with something like a towed balloon, possibly being effective, but there you're talking about gun carraige design that doesn't
start showing up much before the end of the Monitor's popularity...

 This is all written from considering the American Civil war period monitors- the American monitors of the early 20th Century had their guns mounted a
bit higher, and were capable of much higher elevation than their Civil war ancestors-but as far as I know, they were still intended for relatively calm waters
close to shore-their hulls weren't deep enough for the heavy seas of the open Ocean..

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 05:57:28 AM »
"Yamato" with a Nelson-style turret layout!  >:D

All big guns forward, making for a small profile when charging the enemy. As Yamamoto Tsunetomo wrote in Hagakure: "The Way of the Samurai is one of immediacy, and it is best to dash in headlong."



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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 02:46:38 AM »
what if the Bismarck actually made it back to France after Operation Rheinübung and was able to be repaired.  Options then?  I am thinking that it would have participated in the Channel Dash in early 1942, along with the Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, and Prinz Eugen.  What other ideas?
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2012, 03:19:31 AM »
The most it could have done is tied up British assets.  The Germans did not accomplish much with their surface fleet in WWII.  Look what happened with the Tirpitz.  I see little reason to expect that they could have done much more with the Bismarck.  Despite the success of the Channel Dash, it was a strategic step back, as the German fleet was essentially voluntarily going back in its pen.  It was admission that they could accomplish little from the coast of France, which was the great fear in the first place.

Had the Bismarck survived, the British would have expended a great amount of effort to neutralize it, which they likely would have accomplished.  I can imagine the British would suffer heavy losses in bombing raids, commando raids, etc against occupied France with the Bismarck in port, but they would have success in the end.

The only thing is that with the Bismarck, the Germans would have been more inclined to "try something" in the Atlantic.  I can see an attempt at another Atlantic raid in the late fall or winter of 1941 after repairs on the capital ships in Brest were completed.  This may have caused some havoc among Allied convoys at worst, but the greatest risk would have been to the German ships themselves.  I really cannot seeing such a stunt ending well for them if attempted (unlikely).

Cheers,

Logan

Offline sequoiaranger

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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2012, 03:20:54 AM »
The year's top sumo wrestler gets the title of "Yokozuna" in Japan. Here is the battleship equivalent:



I have a small (1/2000) model of it half-started somewhere--maybe I will finish it to go with my carrier "Yonaga".

For story and color illustration...

http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/yokozu_f.htm
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 03:22:39 AM by sequoiaranger »
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