Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 459440 times)

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #650 on: December 12, 2012, 12:40:57 PM »
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #651 on: December 12, 2012, 01:11:38 PM »
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.


Why has no one done this before?  I demand more of this "Fáfnir".  Maybe one of your signature profiles with revised gear that give a good sense of scale?  Maybe with some dark bands like this Viggen?



Cheers,

Logan

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #652 on: December 12, 2012, 01:12:25 PM »
Heck, that twin Viggen gear might be the solution to the scale gear issue, too.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #653 on: December 12, 2012, 06:53:48 PM »
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.


Sweet, what engines is that beastie packing?  Avons, Speys or maybe Olympus?

Offline arc3371

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #654 on: December 12, 2012, 06:55:13 PM »
Elsewhere, Volkodav suggested "SAAB Draken IV, similar in concept the Mirage IV".
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=695.msg33403#msg33403

I present the SAAB Fáfnir supersonic bomber in Flygvapnet service.


I do like that but may suggest Mjölner as a name instead

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #655 on: December 13, 2012, 03:23:13 AM »
Volkodav: Thanks! I was thinking licenced Speys.

Logan: I had imagined a scaled-up version of the Viggen main gear (although I haven't checked to see if any of this would actually work as a scale-o-rama). I like that two-tone camouflage! Maybe this bomber starts out as a Mirage IV-style nuclear strike aircraft and turns into a fast-and-low conventional bomber?

arc':  Mjölner sounds good (and Thor's hammer fits). I went with Fáfnir because his technique of spreading poison as a deterrent seemed to suit a nuclear bomber somehow  ;)
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #656 on: December 13, 2012, 03:58:26 AM »
It wouldn't be the first Cold War bomber to go that route!

Cheers,

Logan

Offline arc3371

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #657 on: December 13, 2012, 05:56:52 AM »
Volkodav: Thanks! I was thinking licenced Speys.

Logan: I had imagined a scaled-up version of the Viggen main gear (although I haven't checked to see if any of this would actually work as a scale-o-rama). I like that two-tone camouflage! Maybe this bomber starts out as a Mirage IV-style nuclear strike aircraft and turns into a fast-and-low conventional bomber?

arc':  Mjölner sounds good (and Thor's hammer fits). I went with Fáfnir because his technique of spreading poison as a deterrent seemed to suit a nuclear bomber somehow  ;)


Have you seen this pic?



Fafnir is a good name (Fafner or Fafne in Swedish) but Sigurds saga isn´t that well known by the general public, Mjölner on the other hand is and as a curiosity I can mention that Eskader 1 (the Attack Group) of the Swedish Air Force was often called ÖB:s Hammare (the Hammer of the CinC)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #658 on: December 13, 2012, 12:36:03 PM »
Just a thought, instead of Speys, go a bit bigger and use afterburning Medways.  The Viggen can then use a single one of these instead of a JT8D derivative.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #659 on: December 13, 2012, 02:51:33 PM »
Also remember this:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline sotoolslinger

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #660 on: December 14, 2012, 10:12:13 AM »
Pretty much all your stuff is cool 8) But I already have the long nose from an XF5F and your twin Stuka saved... >:D :icon_fsm:

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #661 on: December 16, 2012, 12:40:35 PM »
Thanks all for the feedback and suggestions. Here's my take on the Swedish bomber ...

The Saab 38 Mjölnir began as the Projekt 1400, a larger twin-engined bomber derived from the Saab 36 design. In the beginning, Projekt 1400 shared the dorsal intake layout of the early P.1300-50 Saab 36 as well as that aircraft's 44 kN Sveska Flygmotor RM7 (Bristol Olympus) engine. When the Saab 36 project closed down in Feb 1958, the P.1400 was redesigned as an aerodynamically less risky scaling up of the Saab 35 Draken (Projekt 1200).

As a cost-savings, two of the Draken's RM6 Avon engines were to be used. This changed when the British government  offered to licence the advanced 66.7 kN Rolls-Royce RB.177 Medway turbofan to Sweden. Sveska Flygmotor developed its own afterburner providing the licenced RM8 with 97.8 kN of thrust with reheat. Projekt 1400 was in direct  competition with another Saab project, the nuclear-armed Robot 330 cruise missile. In late 1959, the choice was  made to focus on just one 'bombflygplan' project and the Mjölnir was born.

The B38A Mjölnir entered Flygvapnet service in the summer of 1966 in the nuclear strike role. In the event of war, the B38A dvision was tasked with hitting Warsaw Pact embarkation ports in the Baltic with their free-fall nuclear bombs. This intended role was highly controversial with the Swedish citizenry. By 1968, all Swedish nuclear warheads had been withdrawn from service and modified Mjölnirs were re-roled.

The B38B Mjölnir had pylons for conventional weapons and acted as tactical bombers. By the late 1970s, individual B38Bs were withdrawn for rebuilds. Refurbished aircraft returned to Flygvapnet service as B38C anti-shipping strike  aircraft armed with sea-skimming Saab RB 04 Turbo missiles. It was planned to rearm the B38Cs with superior RBS-15F missiles but years of low-flying had taken its toll on the Saab bombers and the division stood down in 1989.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #662 on: December 16, 2012, 01:21:47 PM »
Very nice, well done!

Cheers,

Logan

Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #663 on: December 17, 2012, 06:54:40 AM »
Couldn't agree more! Very nice!

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #664 on: December 17, 2012, 08:42:42 AM »
Thanks lads. It's a crappy image but gets the idea across. I was having more fun with backstories so decided to do one variation on the theme ...

During the Third Icelandic Cod War, Sweden offered to lease A32 Lansen fighter-bombers armed with Saab Rb04 Turbo anti-shipping missiles. Aircrews of the Landhelgisgæsla Íslands (Icelandic Coast Guard) were dispatched to Sweden in the Spring of 1976 but, before training was complete, the dispute was resolved.

As reports of the British fishing industry's decline reached Iceland, a renewal of the Þorskastríðin was judged as a genuine possibility. By then, the Lansen were retired. In May 1983, discussions began of the short-term lease of Flygvapnet B38C Mjölnir. An agreement was quickly arrived at and former Icelandic Lansen trainees were dispatched to Sweden to begin working up on the larger Mjölnir.

With Flygvapnet markings overpainted with a scheme appropriate to the North Atlantic, the B38C entered Icelandic service redubbed as the Saab Sleipnir (a reference to the aircraft's eight main wheels). Although flown by 'Gæslan' personnel and in Coast Guard markings, technically, these aircraft belonged to the Icelandic Defence Agency (Varnarmálastofnun Íslands). By agreement with Sweden, the leased B38Cs had their refuelling probes removed after arrival in Iceland to emphasize the aircrafts' defensive nature.

The normal load-out for the Sleipnir was six Saab Rb04 Turbo anti-shipping missiles with an optional belly drop tank for extra fuel. The latter was rarely carried and the centreline pylon was sometimes used to mount a single Bofors M70 135mm rocket pod. These rockets carried flares instead of warheads and were intended for warning shots.

The big Saab's service with Iceland was brief. By the summer of 1984, it was obvious that the UK Government had no intention of allowing the faltering British fishing fleet to raise tensions in the North Atlantic again. With Iceland's 200 nautical miles fishing zone an established fact, the Sleipnir fleet were returned to Sweden to become B38C Mjölnir once more.

The aircraft illustrated is Sleipnir 01 (TY-SLE) with standard Icelandic markings -- LANDHELGISGÆSLAN title and  lo-viz 'Gæslan' crest on fuselage, split flag and civil registration on the vertical tail. Camouflage patterns  varied amongst the five different Sleipnir.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline Litvyak

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #665 on: December 17, 2012, 08:48:59 AM »
That is /epic/!
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Offline arc3371

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #666 on: December 17, 2012, 10:11:35 AM »
Great background stories

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #667 on: December 17, 2012, 11:55:21 AM »
Interesting backstories and design.  I take it this would be  a scaled up and stretched Draken with a Viggen exhaust?  I'm trying to visualize the best build approach in 1/72.

Offline upnorth

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #668 on: December 17, 2012, 02:12:50 PM »
OK, that is some SERIOUS coast guarding!
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #669 on: December 17, 2012, 09:34:58 PM »
Bah! Tonka-bait!

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #670 on: December 18, 2012, 02:55:49 AM »
Thanks folks!

Evan: Yes, I haven't actually scaled anything but the idea was a 1/48 Draken and Viggen u/c with twin 1/72 Viggen exhaust. Being SFA-designed, I assumed that the latter would look no different for an RB.177-based RM8.

EH: Absolutely! As soon as that 1984-era  Tornado F2 had a lock on with its top-shelf Blue Circle radar, that poor Sleipnir would be toast  ;D
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline JP Vieira

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #671 on: December 18, 2012, 03:16:13 AM »
Very interesting birds and stories

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #672 on: December 18, 2012, 08:35:23 AM »
Continuing with the Dewoitine evolution ...

Instituto Aerotécnico I.Ae.26 Pülü fighter prototype 1945

In November 1942, German occupation authorities began plans to clear the SNCAM Toulouse factories for production of Junkers designs for the Luftwaffe. Tooling and fixtures for the D.520 fighter were offered first to Spain (which preferred to licence Bf 109s) and then to Argentina. In late 1943, this equipment was loaded on to Spanish vessels  at Bordeau for shipment to Argentina.

The Fuerza Aérea Argentina wanted to replace its obsolete FMA Curtiss Hawk 75-0 fighters but recognized that the Dewoitine was no longer a world-class aircraft either. Thus, FMA (by then, the Instituto Aerotécnico took on the task of redesigning the D.520 for FAA service.

The resulting I.Ae.26 was modified to accommodate a German DB601A engine and MG151 20mm motor-cannon (with four wing-mounted 7.62mm Madsen machineguns. Plans shifted to a DB605A engine and three MG151 guns which were now being  built in Argentina. But Germany proved incapable of delivering either complete DB605s or tools for building these engines. After May 1945, attention turned to Italy were stocks of Fiat R.A 1050 Tifone engines were available.

The prototype I.Ae.26, combining French-made and Argentine parts, flew in December 1945. Dubbed Pülü ('wasp' in the Mapuche language), the prototype was accepted by the FAA for trials in April 1946 but no production order was forthcoming. The FAA believed that the Pülü was conceptually obsolete and requested that a turbojet-powered I.Ae.26
derivative be explored.
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #673 on: December 18, 2012, 08:37:45 AM »
Instituto Aerotécnico I.Ae.27 Kalkiñ jet fighter concept 1945-46

The I.Ae.27 was a jet fighter derivative of the I.Ae.26 designed at the Instituto Aerotécnico in 1945-46. This aircraft was to combine the wings and horizontal tailplane of the D.520/I.Ae.26 Pülü piston-engined fighter [see previous page] with a  new turbojet based on drawings of the German Heinkel-Hirth He S 011. The new design was dubbed Kalkiñ ('eagle' in the Mapuche language).

A new fuselage was devised placing the jet engine near the tail while moving the cockpit forward. As a mockup was prepared, the problems of gun gas injestion became known to the I.Ae design team. Accordingly, the side intakes were moved to the extreme nose with the intention of installing the armament on the fuselage sides. However, by  this time, it was apparent that no domestic turbojet design would be forthcoming.

The I.Ae.27 airframe was redesigned for a larger Rolls-Royce Derwent turbojet. At this stage, design work was taken over by Émile Dewoitine (who arrived at Córdoba in 1946, fleeing prosecution for collaboration in France). Along with accommodating the Derwent, Dewoitine designed an all-new wing. The revised design flew as the prototype
I.Ae.27 Pulqui I but, with its new wing, the last direct connection to the D.520 series came to an end.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 01:28:31 PM by apophenia »
"Like a hog dance; Like a pig dare; Mind warp deceptor wan ..."

Offline arc3371

  • Takes no responsibility should anyone try to turn the drawings into plastic...but we will still hold him accountable for the madness that ensues!!!
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #674 on: December 18, 2012, 09:35:50 AM »
Interesting and I love your stories