Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 2548237 times)

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3425 on: September 17, 2025, 09:02:44 AM »
I was amusing myself with the notion of turning a 4th Generation fighter into a stealth type. My hapless victim began as a Dassault profile of their Rafale C. To that, I added features from the Chinese J-35 and general mushed things around.

This improbably semi-stealth Rafale is shown with the Dassault nEUROn experimental UCAV posing as an operational 'Ailier Fidèle'. The no-longer-a-Rafale has its belly weapons bay doors open with a MBDA Meteor missile deploying.*

_________________________

* The original Meteor artwork was done by the Uzbek 3D artist, Akela Freedom.
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3426 on: September 18, 2025, 01:22:19 AM »
Rafale post major mid-life update?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3427 on: September 19, 2025, 03:39:55 AM »
Rafale post major mid-life update?

A very major mid-life  ;D
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3428 on: September 21, 2025, 07:21:09 AM »
For reasons that I can't readily explain, I keep coming back to variations on modernising the Dewoitine D.500 series...

I wrote a long-winded backstory for this scenario but the short version is: what-if the initially feeble Dewoitine D.520-01 had been declared a complete failure and, as an interim, French decided to update their aging Dewoitine D.500/D.501/D.510 fleet. Here, the earlier airframes are rebuilt to accept shorter-span wooden wings and retractable undercarriages based on those of the experimental Arsenal VG.30 light fighter.

The première série SNCAN D.514 EC1s were rebuilt Dewoitine D.500 airframes to be employed by the Armée de l'air in the advanced fighter-trainer role. These were followed by HS 9 moteur canon-armed SNCAN D.515 AC1s rebuilt from Dewoitine D.501 airframes for a new attack-fighter role. The faster SNCAN D.516 C1 fighter was derived from D.510 components and similarly armed with the more powerful HS 404 moteur canon.

A proposed SNCAN D.517 for the Aéronavale was not realised. Instead, SNCAN began remanufacturing poorer-condition Dewoitine aircrafts for the more heavily-revised SNCAN D.518 C1. These most extensive rebuilds had reshaped radiator baths, taller tails, fully-enclosing canopies taken from the Arsenal VG.33 series, and other detail changes. Like the D.516s, the D.518 C1 were powered by HS 12Y-31 engines and armed with HS 404 moteur canons.

At the start of the WW2, many D.516 C1s were still in operation with three Groupes de Chasse. By May of 1940, some frontline D.516s were still flying as backups in regular D.518 units. However, by then, most D.516s had been transferred to the Escadrilles Régionale de Chasse replacing older types. A few D.516s were also transferred to equipment-starved Aéronavale squadrons after the German assault had begun.
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline Litvyak

  • Shifting between quantum realities...
  • Althistorian & profiler...& the 1st lady of whiff
    • Dominion of British Columbia
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3429 on: September 21, 2025, 12:37:47 PM »
This improbably semi-stealth Rafale is shown with the Dassault nEUROn experimental UCAV posing as an operational 'Ailier Fidèle'. The no-longer-a-Rafale has its belly weapons bay doors open with a MBDA Meteor missile deploying.*\
* The original Meteor artwork was done by the Uzbek 3D artist, Akela Freedom.

Something about it really makes me think Su-57...
"God save our King and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Dominion of BC - https://dominionofbc.miraheze.org/wiki/British_Columbia

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3430 on: September 22, 2025, 09:20:13 AM »
Something about it really makes me think Su-57...

Cheers Litvak. Maybe the 'Egg Plane' version of the Su-57?  ;D

The Sukhoi is a much swoopier-looking design. I'm hoping that the Russians never get around whatever it was the originally slowed-down their stealth fighter programme. That said, it can't be denied that the Su-57 is a looker!
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3431 on: September 22, 2025, 09:21:23 AM »
Not much of a backstory for this one. It just seemed odd that India licensed-built a number of Soviet aircraft but, AFAIK, never evolved distinctly domestic derivatives. So, I've been playing with an Indian MiG-21 evolution well beyond the local Bison upgrade. However, the somewhat dated Tumansky R-25 turbojet - licensed for in-service IAF MiG-21 FLs - would be retained for the new fighter to manage costs.

The idea is that India revived and updated the MiG Ye-8 concept for its Future Fighter Aircraft (FFA) aka 'Fighter 90' programme. The Ye-8 ventral intake was retained but revised to incorporate lessons learned or surmised from the earlier US F-16. Other than that intake and a raised forward fuselage, for the prototype FFA, Hindustan Aerospace attempted to reuse as much of its MiG-21 tooling as possible.

After test flights, a range of changes and modifications were incorporated. Most noticeably, the vertical tailplane was changed. The need for increased control led to the adoption on an entirely new and much larger fin and rudder. After a number of tail strikes with the original ventral fin, those too were changed. In the latter case, the solution was easier - HAL simply adopted the folding ventral fin from their licensed
MiG-27 Bahadur attack aircraft.

In Indian Air Force service, the FFA became the HAL Shikra (Banded Goshawk). These aircraft served in the fighter-interceptor role from the late 1980s until 2009. Illustrated are the prototype FFA demonstrator (in its original form) and an upgraded HAL Shikra-C of No. 45 (Flying Daggers) Squadron, IAF in the early 2000s.
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3432 on: September 22, 2025, 07:08:35 PM »
I like that! Especially the green FFA, because it has the "rakish" MiG-21 tail.

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3433 on: September 23, 2025, 10:03:55 AM »
I like that! Especially the green FFA, because it has the "rakish" MiG-21 tail.

Thanks perttime :smiley:  The MiG-21 really did have a 'go-faster' tail  ;D

I got the FFA done and mounted just in time. This morning, my HP laptop officially carked it ... or, at least, the dreaded HP 'XYZ' glitch now freezes everything after 4 x keystrokes. Fun!

So now the search for a replacement laptop begins. I'm currently leaning towards a ChromeBook ... basically because I'm utterly fed up with both HP and Microsoft. But, that means adios 'vintage Photoshop'  :P

Anyhoo, consider this thread on hiatus until a new laptop is procured with GIMP downloaded and mastered ...
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline Frank3k

  • Excession
  • Global Moderator
  • Formerly Frank2056. New upgrade!
    • My new webpage
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3434 on: September 23, 2025, 11:12:31 AM »
Get a Mac laptop - price-wise, they're competitive (maybe even cheaper!) with Windows machines of equal power.

Offline Litvyak

  • Shifting between quantum realities...
  • Althistorian & profiler...& the 1st lady of whiff
    • Dominion of British Columbia
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3435 on: September 23, 2025, 03:36:18 PM »
Anyhoo, consider this thread on hiatus until a new laptop is procured with GIMP downloaded and mastered ...

GIMP is fun. I think the biggest thing will be learning terminology, some things are just called differently in one than the other.
"God save our King and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Dominion of BC - https://dominionofbc.miraheze.org/wiki/British_Columbia

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3436 on: September 24, 2025, 02:08:25 AM »
And if you want/need to work in vector formats, Inkscape can do quite a bit.

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3437 on: September 24, 2025, 09:52:53 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions, folks! With a little research, I quickly realised that a Chromebook would be almost useless for what I want to do (partly because of its modest RAM, mainly because of its low-resolution screen). Oh well ...

GIMP is fun. I think the biggest thing will be learning terminology, some things are just called differently in one than the other.

I've downloaded GIMP  3.0.4. onto a borrowed laptop (Win10) but I have yet to hit "fun"! Since much of what I do begins with the removal of the background, that is what I started with on a trial image. Oh dear!

In Photoshop, you outline part of the unwanted background by playing connect-the-dots with the Lasso tool. Then Control X to cut out that part of the image (leaving, in my case, a white background). Then Control S to save what you've done thus far in psd. Then repeat until you've eliminated as much of the background as you require.

I tried to do the same in GIMP. I was selecting the first area to cut out using the Free Select Tool. As I proceeded (after 3 x clicks), the selection suddenly snapped to a reduced area. I thought 'close enough for an experiment' and Cut. As desired, the selected area turned to background white ... but all around that cut area looked like it had been airbrushed at a fuzzy, low-pressure setting.

Looking around at tutorials, I realised that one must 'commit' Free Select Tool before cutting. I did. Same result. Then I tried deselecting Anti-Alias and Feather Edges separately and then together. Sames results in all cases. After turning Anti-Alias back on, I shut down GIMP and started again. The bold fuzzy outline is now replaced by a subtler 'airbrush' effect ... but it is still there.

So, am I missing something here? Embarrassing to stall on Step 1 of GIMP! But, thus far, very little seems intuitive to me ... and, yes, I am aware that I am whinging about challenges with free software  ;D
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline Frank3k

  • Excession
  • Global Moderator
  • Formerly Frank2056. New upgrade!
    • My new webpage
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3438 on: September 24, 2025, 11:36:15 AM »
I could never get my head around GIMP. I use Photoline (https://www.pl32.com/) and it's pretty good. They have a generous free trial period and it's relatively cheap (79 Euros)

Offline Litvyak

  • Shifting between quantum realities...
  • Althistorian & profiler...& the 1st lady of whiff
    • Dominion of British Columbia
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3439 on: September 24, 2025, 11:14:07 PM »
Using the lasso tool, I selected this house, did 'select inverse', hit the 'delete' key on the keyboard, and there's a blank white background... (this house is in Sandon btw)


Quote
But, thus far, very little seems intuitive to me

I know how this feels - I felt the same when I gave Photoshop a try up at SFU... looks so similar, works so different...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2025, 11:17:40 PM by Litvyak »
"God save our King and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Dominion of BC - https://dominionofbc.miraheze.org/wiki/British_Columbia

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3440 on: September 26, 2025, 04:15:34 AM »
Thanks folks.

Frank: Photoline looks intriguing ... and I had a wander around its support section. I think I'll give Photoline a try.

Using the lasso tool, I selected this house, did 'select inverse', hit the 'delete' key on the keyboard, and there's a blank white background... (this house is in Sandon btw)

That is pretty much the same technique that I was using in PS. Mostly, I just select one small area at a time and 'cut' that before moving on. On occasion, I use 'inverse' but mainly for feathering harsh edges.

ps: Cool to see a bit of Sandon architecture. Their collection of CCF-Brill T48 trolley busses also intrigues. I wonder what their original plan was for the Brills?
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline Litvyak

  • Shifting between quantum realities...
  • Althistorian & profiler...& the 1st lady of whiff
    • Dominion of British Columbia
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3441 on: September 26, 2025, 06:04:30 AM »
That is pretty much the same technique that I was using in PS. Mostly, I just select one small area at a time and 'cut' that before moving on. On occasion, I use 'inverse' but mainly for feathering harsh edges.

I use inverse a fair bit, especially when cleaning up or redrawing an airline logo or somesuch from a jpg or a png that's not on a transparent background.

Quote
ps: Cool to see a bit of Sandon architecture. Their collection of CCF-Brill T48 trolley busses also intrigues. I wonder what their original plan was for the Brills?

I have no idea - but better there than at the scrapper's! I'm told there's also one or more at Three Valley Gap, though I've passed through there 1000 times, and stopped at Craigellachie a few times, I've never actually stopped at 3VG... and also it's fun when the Transit Museum brings out their Brills for rides around the city. I love them, fond childhood memories.
"God save our King and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Dominion of BC - https://dominionofbc.miraheze.org/wiki/British_Columbia

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3442 on: September 27, 2025, 05:43:47 AM »

I have no idea - but better there than at the scrapper's! I'm told there's also one or more at Three Valley Gap, though I've passed through there 1000 times, and stopped at Craigellachie a few times, I've never actually stopped at 3VG... and also it's fun when the Transit Museum brings out their Brills for rides around the city. I love them, fond childhood memories.

I was imagining a tour route festooned with overhead trolley lines for the Brills. And all fed by Silversmith Power Station's Tesla generator. I'm sure some clever marketing type could do something with that!  :D
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline Litvyak

  • Shifting between quantum realities...
  • Althistorian & profiler...& the 1st lady of whiff
    • Dominion of British Columbia
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3443 on: September 27, 2025, 06:26:42 AM »
I'm now entertaining myself imagining Highway 31A wired for trolleys between New Denver and Kaslo... or maybe from Nakusp to Nakusp Hot Springs...
"God save our King and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Dominion of BC - https://dominionofbc.miraheze.org/wiki/British_Columbia

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3444 on: September 28, 2025, 03:21:34 AM »
I'm now entertaining myself imagining Highway 31A wired for trolleys between New Denver and Kaslo... or maybe from Nakusp to Nakusp Hot Springs...

Overhead wires for transport trucks seems to be the future for German highways. Expanding that to 'inter-urban' trolley buses just makes sense. But how much more fun to (re)use restored CCF-Brills and Flyers?  :D
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3445 on: Yesterday at 10:28:03 AM »
The 'next Tactical Aviation Capability Set' Project

This is going to be rather wordy - since it began as  the long-form critique of a RW procurement programme - to wit, the Canadian nTACS project.
(Note: Profile appears in the next post: https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg235892#msg235892)

First, a bit of background ...

Canada's DND is pursuing a modernisation of TacHel under the nTACS project. This began as a planned replacement for RCAF CH-146 Griffon tactical helicopters - some airframes in that Bell 412 fleet are now approaching 34 years of age. [1] But, what began as a relatively simple replacement procurement programme, has now expanded to cover other, only semi-related roles. These added roles include:

- Mobility and Support to Special Operations Forces: With CANSOFCOM planners envisioning something akin to the MH-60M Black Hawks employed by USSOCOM;

- Aerial Firepower and C4ISR capability-gap fillers: Sometimes given as 'attack-recce', this translates into attack helicopters with an added C4ISR emphasis; and

- Uncrewed or Remotely-Piloted options: A bit of future-gazing which, frankly, seems more like a research programme.

nTACS - Problems and Challenges

Expanding procurement programmes beyond simple replacements is sometimes necessary. But it rarely, if ever, streamlines a procurement process. In the case of tactical helicopters, it was well worth spreading out and reviewing all relevant roles and capability requirements in order to gain overall perspective. Whether, perforce, all such roles had to be jammed into an expanded nTACS requirement is another matter.

But nTACS has a bigger problem than potential confusion from project 'spread' - and that is timing. The RCAF's Director General of Air and Space Force Development, BGen Brendan Cook announced publicly that Canada must be prepared for war by 2028 to 2030. [2] But initial delivery of nTACS is not scheduled to begin until 2032/2033. In other words, any new Canadian TacHel capability will arrive too late for the anticipated conflict.

"Mind that Bus!" - The nTACS Schedule

In effect, broadening nTACS has turned this planned procurement into what DND likes to call an Omnibus Project - that is, a 'parent' project which then spawns sub-projects to deliver actual capabilities (another word that DND loves to use). This has already affected the schedule of nTACS - with the CANSOFCOM Mobility and Support capability being moved to the top priority position.

Almost inevitably, CANSOFCOM will choose the MH-60M variant of the Sikorsky S-70A Black Hawk (as operated by USSOCOM). As a chosen path, that conflicts with Prime Minister Mark Carney's stated goal of reducing Canadian defence procurement reliance upon US industry. However, should that path be taken, it will invariably influence the later decision on which airframe should replace the current fleet of 82 x CH-146 Griffon tactical helicopters.

That influence would remain even if CANSOFCOM's requirement was separated out as part of an nTACS Omnibus Project. But said influence would be less strong on the remainder of the nTACS project. Then the question becomes: what COTS options are available as direct CH-146 replacements and which of them would provide genuine industrial benefits to Canada? The official offerings listed so far are:

- H175M by Airbus Helicopters: Only slightly larger than the CH-146, the H175H is more than twice as powerful [3] and Airbus has proposed a Canadian production line. (AFAIK, Airbus is making no offer for the separate attack-C4ISR role.)

- AW149 by Leonardo Helicopters: As selected for the British New Medium Helicopter (NMH) program, the Italian AW149 is a direct rival to the H175M. The AW149 uses American GE CT7 engines and licensed-production is unlikely. (For attack-C4ISR, Leonardo is offering its AW249 Fenice attack helicopter.)

- S-70A Black Hawk by Sikorsky (now a Lockheed Martin subsidiary): Almost certainly the choice of CANSOFCOM, any Black Hawk procurement would be entirely from the US. (On the uncrewed side, in July 2022, Sikorsky test-flew a Black Hawk with its entire cockpit replaced by clamshell loading doors.)

- MV-75 by Bell Textron: Formerly the V-280 Valor, the MV-75 is a tiltrotor design still in the prototype stage for the US Army. Compared with the S-70A Black Hawk it is to replace, the MV-75 is longer-ranged and faster. But to gain that speed, it requires engines more powerful than those of the larger MV-22B Osprey.

- Boeing has expressed interest in nTACS but offers no Griffon replacement. Instead, Boeing has put forward a seemingly off-topic CH-147F modernisation scheme and their AH-64 Apache for the attack-C4ISR role.

Choosing the Next Generation of TacHel

Any favourite(s) for the nTACS project will depend upon how DND 'weights' the competition. If pure performance is given priority (with cost and risk being no object), the experimental Bell MV-75 tiltrotor will be a strong contender. If proven service and established supply lines are more highly valued, the Sikorsky Black Hawk will be hard to beat.

The wild card comes when considering PM Carney's desire to reduce defence procurement spending to US suppliers (down from the current 75% of total spending) while factoring in potential boons to Canadian aerospace (beyond the usual industrial benefit offsets). Then, Airbus Helicopters' H175M suddenly stands out from the crowd.

The H175M is certainly a more capable helicopter than the CH-146 Griffon. But it is not dramatically larger. That lack of drama has some practical advantages - such as replacement helicopters readily fitting into existing hangars and on to heli-pads at the 11 bases from which Griffons currently operate. But the biggest advantages for the H175M offering are economic. [4]

____________________________________________

[1] The RCAF's CH-146 fleet is currently moving through GLLE - the Griffon Limited Life-Extension upgrade programme. The result will be modernised, more capable tactical helicopters ... but still using airframes that are 3 decades old.

[2] This statement was made at Space Canada Horizon's 2025 conference. In his speech, BGen Cook was addressing the potential for conflicts erupting in NATO's European territories and the Indo-Pacific as well as threats to Canadian Arctic sovereignty. But, even a year ago, DND's emphasis was still on combined ops with US forces.

[3] Both Griffon and H175M are equipped with Pratt & Whitney Canada engines - with the conjoined PT6T-3D  TwinPac powering the CH-146 and 2 x PT6C-67E in the H175M.

[4] That does not necessarily translate into the least expensive price per airframe. For example, because of the scale of its production, the Black Hawk has a unit cost lower than that of the Leonardo AW149 (although not lower than that of the Airbus Helicopters H175M).
____________________________________________
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:33:30 AM by apophenia »
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3446 on: Yesterday at 10:30:12 AM »
Choosing Sides in the nTACS Contest

The Airbus Helicopters H175M offers the best industrial benefits to Canada for the present - with its Canadian-made engines and already-offered production line in Canada. Its rivals may choose to proffer similar built-in-Canada options in future. And yet, such offers are rather hard to imagine at present. Of other firms which have expressed interest in nTACS, only Bell Textron actually currently builds airframes in Canada. [1] However, the odds that Bell would choose to manufacture their MV-75 tiltrotor at Mirabel are virtually zero.

Airbus Helicopters Canada Inc. has a modest plant in Fort Erie, ON, where it is currently assembling 19 x CT-153 Juno helicopters - H135s for the Future Aircrew Training (FAcT) program to train the next generation of RCAF rotary-wing pilots. Presumably, any H175Ms procured through nTACS would be built in this same southern Ontario facility.

A Hypothetical H175M in Canadian Service

Without further ado ... introducing the RCAF's future CH-146 replacement, the Airbus CH-175 Roc. [2]  The helicopter is depicted in an all-over 501-322 grey scheme (although the markings more or less follow those of the CH-146 Griffons).

An assumption is made that operational nTACS helicopters would have permanently-mounted E/O turrets (unlike the current Griffon fleet) and infrared exhaust suppressors. [3] Also shown here are a defensive aid suite made up of chaff and flare dispensers (although it is less likely that such DAS would be regularly carried).

The earliest CH-175 adopters would be 400 Tactical Helicopter and Training Squadron at CFB Borden (whose squadron badge is worn on the cockpit door) and 403 Operational Training Squadron at CFB Gagetown. The operational Tactical Helicopter Squadrons would follow. Combat Support Squadron flying airbase SAR roles would be the last operational units to replace their CH-146 Griffons.

___________________________________

[1] Bell Textron at Mirabel, QC, assembles Bell 407 and 505 Jet Rangers, 429 GlobalRanger, and 412 Griffon model commercial helicopters.

[2] The type numbering follows the pattern of the Airbus CC-295 Kingfisher FWSAR aircraft. I wanted to continue the Griffon's mythological bird name tradition and Roc is bilangue. (The Iroquois golden eagle Keneu - who accompanied their thunder god Hé-no - was tempting ... but a bit too peaceful and benevolent for a military helicopter name.)

[3] The exhaust shrouds shown are model on designs by Ottawa engineering firm, W. R. Davis which specialises in infrared suppression systems.
"It'd be better for us if you don't understand;
It'd be better for me if you don't understand"