Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 445148 times)

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2625 on: September 12, 2020, 02:41:07 AM »
Well lookie here...Amusing Hobby releasing a new 1/35 kit:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2626 on: September 12, 2020, 08:58:28 AM »
Well lookie here...Amusing Hobby releasing a new 1/35 kit:

Nice!! And with all that dust, this puppy could any kind of suspension hidden there  :smiley:

This one got very wordy. Apologies, for that ...  :-[

______________________________________

Late in 1939, Krupp had begun work on a dedicated self-propelled gun designated Sd.Kfz. 165/1, which was based upon the Pz.Kpfw IV hull. This 'Geschützwagen IV' was a sophisticated vehicle - complete with a dismountable turret which could be emplaced as a pillbox. But, by 1941, growing frontline urgencies suggested a quicker-to-build interim model was required. Accordingly, a much simpler vehicle was devised by Altmärkische Kettenwerk GmbH (Alkett) with a prototype rapidly rebuilt from an early-production model Panzer III Ausf.E tank hull. This experimental vehicle had a fixed casement armed with a 7.5 cm FK 16 n.A. gun [1] with limited traverse.

The prototype Sd.Kfz. 144/1 would eventually lead to the Sturm-Infanteriegeschütz 33B heavy assault gun. [2] But - especially for desert warfare - an even simpler vehicle was desirable. The Afrika Korps had anticipated the sIG 33B and built its own - these crude converions were simply turretless Pz.Kpfw IIIs with gun shields protecting the front of an open fighting compartment. The DAK crews were exposed to shell splinters but spared the stiffling heat of a fully-enclosed armoured vehicle. Alkett's design staff felt that they could do better. This would lead to the pared-down Sd.Kfz. 144/3 which would gain fame as the Pz.Sfl. III in the battles for the Western Desert. [3]

Pz.Sfl. III (or Sd.Kfz. 144/3) - A Lighter Geschützwagen for the DAK

DAK combat experience had resulted in priorities shifting toward what would now be called direct fire support vehicles. Accordingly, the Sd.Kfz. 144/3 design was adjusted to accommodate a range of field pieces. The casemate gave way to an open-topped compartment enclosed by four armoured walls. The forward wall was surmounted by a traversing gun shield. The rear wall featured a sliding door allowing access to separate ammunition stowage racks situated over the engine compartment. The bolt-on gun mount could accommodate various guns [4] but the most common type was a German variant of the French 'soixante-quinze'.

Back in 1939 - in the aftermath of Überfall auf Polen - the Wehrmacht held over a thousand French-made 75 mm armata wz.1897 field guns captured from the Polish Army. [5] Redesignated FK 97(p), most of these guns went into storage since the Germans considered these WWI-vintage cannons obsolete. [6] The Wehrmacht also found itself in possession of Polish-devised anti-tank rounds designed for the French gun. Trials with the Polish armour-piercing round revealed its performance to be generally inferior to the then-experimental 5 cm Pak 38 from Rheinmetall-Borsig.

With the Fall of France, many more Mle.1897 guns came into the German fold. With them came French 75 mm rounds - both AP and a high-explosive anti-tank shell. Despite a much-reduced muzzle velocity, the Mle.1897 firing a HEAT round had a slight advantage over the Pak 38 at longer ranges. It wasn't much of an edge but the Mle.1897 guns and their ammunition was readily available. Putting these guns on a self-propelled 'Waffenträger' eliminated the disadvantages of elderly, horse-drawn carriages. The resulting Sd.Kfz. 144/3 was dispatched to North Africa as the 7.5 cm (f) Panzer Selbstfahrlafette auf Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf.J. Due to its bulky fighting compartment, the DAK dubbed their new SP 'Klobig Julius' - 'Hefty Julius'.

Despite its '(f)' for Französisch designation suffix, the earliest Pz.Sfl. III Ausf.J were actually armed with the 7.5 cm FK 97(p) version of the 'soixante-quinze' (these guns having been stored fairly close to the Alkett facility in Berlin-Borsigwalde). As 'Klobig Julius' conversions hit their stride, reinforcing barrel bands and Solothurn muzzle brakes were introduced (similar to those for the new, hybrid 7.5 cm PaK 97/38 anti-tank gun). The third production series began introducing rebuilt ex-French 7.5 cm FK 231(f) pieces (the best of the stored Polish FK 97(p) guns having been picked over by then). Working in concert with long-barrelled Pz.Kpfw. III Ausf.J tanks, it was the Pz.Sfl. III which restored the balance after the appearance of British M3 Grant tanks armed with 75 mm guns.

_________________________________________

[1] This 7.5 cm Feldkanone 16 (neuer Art) was a rebarrelled 7.7 cm FK 16 from WWI. Otherwise unmodernized, the 'n.A.' was rechambered from the WWI 77 x 230R round to the WW2 Wehrmacht standard 75 x 200R.

[2] This carrier vehicle (Waffenträger) was named for its sIG 33 infantry gun main armament.

[3] The Sd.Kfz. 144/2 was to be a Sturmpanzer development of the sIG 33B casement vehicle.

[4] Other gun types included the originally-planned 7.5 cm FK 16 n.A. or 10.5 cm leFH 18/2 L/28 howitzer. Planned but not pursued were German 7.5 cm FK 18 or FK 38 pieces and the ex-Polish 7.5 cm FK 02/06(p) (aka 75 mm armata wz.02/06). The 8.38cm FK 273(e) (aka 18-pounder Mk.IIPA) was briefly considered for use in Libya but captures of British 18-pounder ammunition proved comparatively rare.

[5] These ex-French Mle.1897 guns had originally been imported during the Polish-Soviet War of 1919–20.

[6] In 1941, 80 of these stored armata wz.1897 field guns would be sold to Romania.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2627 on: September 13, 2020, 02:11:30 AM »
 :smiley:

Whilst you're on a Panzer III theme, how about an anti-aircraft version?

Similarly, some other inspiration might be some foreign operated (post war probably) SU-76i and/or SG-122.  These were versions of the German Panzer III and/or StuG III converted into Soviet self-propelled gun armed with either the 76.2mm S-1 tank gun or the the M-30 122mm howitzer.  Maybe some sent to Syria?  Or even odder, how about some sent to Israel for a Soviet supported Israel...(whole new scenario there... ;)).



All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2628 on: September 14, 2020, 10:26:54 AM »
Hmmm ... I was kinda stuff in the Western Desert but now I'm tempted to broaden horizons  :smiley:

Meanwhile, I have been distracted by a certain 'Diminutive Brunette Canid':
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9468.msg176686#new

________________________________________________________

Scammell Scout R110 Heavy Artillery Tractor

Scout series vehicles were the first Scammell production types to employ Electro Magnetic Field Effect on Mass (EMFEM). Based on Scammell's conventionally-wheeled Pioneer R100 of 1935, the Scout R110 was developed in response to a British Army requirement for a range of heavy lorries - beginning with the R110 Artillery Tractor in 1936, the S2 Recovery Vehicle in 1937, and 30-ton TRMU30 Tank Transporter in 1938.

All Scammell Scout lorries were powered by a 125 bhp Gardner 6LW-G diesel genset driving Commercial Lift Generation EMFEMs. These engines were 510 cubic inch (8.37 L) 6-cylinders (comprised of 2 x Gardner 3-cylinder units on an inline crankcase). The alternator/generator for the CLG units sat directly beneath the crew cab.

Depicted is a Scout R110 Mk.IIA of the 54th Super-Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery. The former 54 Hvy. Regt had its designation changed on 16 Feb 1945. This Scout saw a fairly hard war but had recently received shiny new EMFEM 'shoes'. These lorries towed the units' 155 mm guns and BL 9.2-inch howitzers (until the latter were replaced with the new, EMFEM-equipped BL 7.2-inch howitzers). This Scout finished its war at Ferrara, Italy. In 1947, this Scout R110 Mk.IIA was passed on to the Esercito Italiano.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 03:24:10 AM by apophenia »
"How many moles do you suppose they're keeping?;
Don't make a sound they're not dead, just sleeping"

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2629 on: September 14, 2020, 04:31:58 PM »
'Diminutive Brunette Canid'  - love it :)

Looks bloody marvellous Apophenia only you will have the Sgt Major after you for not covering those lights up ;)

I spent ages trying to decide between Pioneer and Constructor but I was heavily influenced by some wonderful 50's Malcolm Root painting of period lorries.
I'm chuffed that you have done this and made a damn good job of it to.
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Offline buzzbomb

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2630 on: September 14, 2020, 05:42:26 PM »
Great stuff as usual

Offline Jonesthetank

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2631 on: September 14, 2020, 09:22:20 PM »
Small Brown Dog and Apophenia,

Beautiful!  Not a lot else to say!!

I now need to fight the urge to start looking at the IBG Pioneer gun tractors.................

Mark

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2632 on: September 15, 2020, 03:31:41 AM »
... you will have the Sgt Major after you for not covering those lights up ...

"But Sergeant Major, the war is over now ..."  :(

...I now need to fight the urge to start looking at the IBG Pioneer gun tractors...

Resistance is futile  ;)
"How many moles do you suppose they're keeping?;
Don't make a sound they're not dead, just sleeping"

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2633 on: September 15, 2020, 09:25:40 PM »
... you will have the Sgt Major after you for not covering those lights up ...


"But Sergeant Major, the war is over now ..."  :(



I spied two of the feline foe myself on my walk this morning ... the fight will never be over!
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2634 on: September 16, 2020, 09:27:13 AM »
I spied two of the feline foe myself on my walk this morning ... the fight will never be over!

Ruff! Grrr! Rurr-ruff!  (Translation: Ready, Aye Ready!)

BTW, exercise extreme caution. There are known felid-fraternizers on this very discussion group  :o
"How many moles do you suppose they're keeping?;
Don't make a sound they're not dead, just sleeping"

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2635 on: September 16, 2020, 05:25:45 PM »
I spied two of the feline foe myself on my walk this morning ... the fight will never be over!

Ruff! Grrr! Rurr-ruff!  (Translation: Ready, Aye Ready!)

BTW, exercise extreme caution. There are known felid-fraternizers on this very discussion group  :o
Not sure where you were taught Doganese but I'm afraid that "Ruff! Grrr! Rurr-ruff! " translates to "excuse me while I  sniff your butt"
and yes, I am a aware of the fifth column element.
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2636 on: September 16, 2020, 09:53:50 PM »
Me? I'm an inveterate double-agent, actively supporting BOTH camps equally. ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2637 on: September 17, 2020, 01:42:23 AM »
An invertebrate double-agent? Okay, things are getting too intra-Order around here for me!

Not sure where you were taught Doganese but I'm afraid that "Ruff! Grrr! Rurr-ruff! " translates to "excuse me while I  sniff your butt"
and yes, I am a aware of the fifth column element.

Of course, Canidesian dialects vary. Locally, body language is a critical component. Nuances such as agitated quivering, hackle-raising, eye-bulging, and lower canine exposure all contribute. Butt-sniffing goes without saying but, in polite company, overly inflammatory terms like 'Cxt' or 'Squirrex' are strictly avoided  ;)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 01:43:54 AM by apophenia »
"How many moles do you suppose they're keeping?;
Don't make a sound they're not dead, just sleeping"

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2638 on: September 17, 2020, 02:01:46 AM »
Of course, Canidesian dialects vary. Locally, body language is a critical component. Nuances such as agitated quivering, hackle-raising, eye-bulging, and lower canine exposure all contribute. Butt-sniffing goes without saying but, in polite company, overly inflammatory terms like 'Cxt' or 'Squirrex' are strictly avoided  ;)

In my world, agitated quivering, hackle-raising, eye-bulging, and lower canine exposure are all signs of imminent pukus upthrow having eaten something I found behind the bins.
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2639 on: September 19, 2020, 12:19:30 PM »
In others words, woofing yer cookies  ;)

Whilst you're on a Panzer III theme, how about an anti-aircraft version?

In 1945, western Allied armies stockpiled some Wehrmacht weaponry in case of attempted Soviet expansion. This included a number of StuG III assault guns as well as some turretless Pz Kpfw III hulls intended to supply running gear spares. Aside from some limited use of gunless StuG IIIs as ad hoc engineering vehicles by the French Troupes d'occupation en Allemagne, [1] these ex-Wehrmacht vehicles remained parked in reserve stockades.

In the aftermath of the Berlin Blockade, the new Bundesrepublik Deutschland (BRD) was created. With the war fresh in memories, the Allied remained resistant to the re-establishment of a German military. However, in March 1951, the Bundesministerium des Innern (BMI or Interior Ministry) formed the Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS) border patrol. Prompted by the creation of the Deutsche Demokratische Republik under Soviet control in the Eastern Sector, moves were made towards the creation of some form of West German self-defence force ('BRD Selbstverteidigungskraft'). Following the BMI's lead, the Auswärtiges Amt (AA or Foreign Office) formed the more neutrally-named Sicherheitskräfte (AA-SK or AA Security Force) with similar police powers to that of the BGS border patrol. In all but name, the AA-SK was the beginnings of a fully-militarized Bundeswehr.

When the Bundeswehr was formally established on 07 May 1952, it was revealed that the Sicherheitskräfte had already received some of the stockpiled ex-Wehrmacht equipment from Allied stores. This included both StuG IIIs and Pz Kpfw III 'spares'. First to be fielded were the Pionierpanzer III(R) - since these ex-French vehicles had already been made roadworthy. The PiPz 3(R)s came fitted with dozer blades (Räumschild) [2] and were the Bundeswehr's first Armoured Engineering Vehicles. Lacking hoists and excavator buckets, the PiPz 3(R)s were largely restricted to debris clearance and simpler Field Engineering tasks.

Top Pionierpanzer 3(Räumschild). This PiPz 3(R) belongs to PzPiBtl 130 of PzBtl 9/1. PzDiv. The Sachsenross emblem of 1. Panzerdivision is shown on the starboard side (the crest of Panzerlehrbrigade 9 being worn on the opposite side of the hull).

The PiPz 3 AEVs were followed into service by Kanonenjagdpanzer 75 assault vehicles (mainly 'refreshed' StuG III Ausf.Gs and 'Js). However, these KanJPz 75 were not the first armed variant - the Allies still being reluctant to provide the Germans with stored 75 mm guns or their ammunition. [3] In a surprise development, the first armed Bundespanzer Typ 3 variant was based on the 'spares' Pz.Kpfw III hulls. These were the Flugabwehrpanzer 40 armed with twin Bofors autocannons. These Flakpanzer 40 anti-aircraft vehicles were fitted with surplus turrets from recently retired US Army M19 Multiple Gun Motor Carriages (MGMC). The Flakpanzer 40 conversion work was performed by Eisenwerke Kaiserslautern (EWK).

Bottom Flugabwehrpanzer 40 armed with two 40 mm M2A1 Bofors guns. This Flakpanzer 40 belonged to Flugabwehrartilleriebataillon 1 der 1. Grenadier division.

Unlike the Flugabwehrtruppe's half-track Panzerflak M 16A1, the full-track Flakpanzer 40 was considered a success conversion. However, its service life was comparatively short. In 1958, the Flakpanzer 40 was replaced by the similarly-armed M42 Duster. In anti-aircraft performance, there was little to choose between the two full-track types. But the US M42 had the distinct advantage of a sunstantial spare parts chain.

The Vollkettenartillerietraktor 3 (VKAT 3) was a refurbished StuG III (without its main gun) employed by the Feldartilleriebataillonen as a gun tug (Artillerie-Schlepper) or ammunition limber tractor for the Panzerhaubitze M7. Another refurbished StuG was the experimental Raketenwerfer 114 - which was armed with roof-mounted Leichten Artillerie Raketen 114 mm (US 4.5 in T34 Calliope rockets).

Two other Typ 3 vehicles were planned but not built. One was the Panzermörser 3 - another 'gunless' StuG, to be armed in this case, with the 81 mm M1 mortar for the schweren Kompanien of the Jägerbataillons. This project was abandoned in favour of a 'dismount' M1 carried in the more economical Universal Carrier. A more ambitious project was the turreted Spähpanzer 76 recce vehicle. This was to be a Panzer III hull fitted with open-topped turret from retired US Army M18 Hellcat tank destroyers. The object of the Spähpanzer 76 programme was to provide an interim 'scout tank' while awaiting the Spähpanzer SP I.C. which was then in the planning stage. A shortage of funds (and available Panzer III hulls) truncated the 'SP 76' programme.

The KanJPz 75 never were fully armed and schemes to up-gun to 76 mm US M1A2 guns were never realized. Instead, the best KanJPz hulls were selected for conversion to more Munitionsschlepper Typ 3 (MS 3) for use by the Feldartilleriebataillonen. As already noted, the Panzerflak 40s were replaced by M42s in 1958 and, thereafter, formed part of the Typ 3 spares pool. The MS 3s, Artillerie Traktors, and PiPz 3(R)s lasted longest, being refurbished and converted to diesel power in 1957-59. [4]

______________________________


[1] The French TOA referred to these 'de-fanged' StuGs as EBG-3(A)s L'engin blindé du génie (Allemande) (Troupes d'occupation en Allemagne (TOA)

[2] As inherited from the French, the PiPz 3(R) were equipped with the US M5 bulldozer blade (as used on the M8 Tractor).

[3] Sourcing ammunition for the StuG's original 7.5 cm StuK 40 L/48 gun would have been difficult in any case.

[4] The process of replacing the original Maybach HL120 TRM gasoline engines with Deutz F12L614 air-cooled V-12 diesels began in the Autumn of 1957.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2640 on: September 20, 2020, 02:26:04 AM »
 :smiley:

Kind of plays into a scenario I have toyed with whereby the reformed Deutsches Heer is only equipped with tank destroyers (and their ilk) for their primary armoured vehicle.  Conventional tanks are thus not there so no M48 or Leo 1.  Maybe some reconditioned Jagdpanthers or even a small set of Jagdpanzer E 100 (which was the trigger for the idea and the model I wanted to build in post war colours) before leading to the Kanonenjagdpanzer and even Stridsvagn 103.  Essentially the reformed Deutsches Heer is given a defensive only posture.
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Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2641 on: September 20, 2020, 04:02:24 AM »
:smiley:

Kind of plays into a scenario I have toyed with whereby the reformed Deutsches Heer is only equipped with tank destroyers (and their ilk) for their primary armoured vehicle.  Conventional tanks are thus not there so no M48 or Leo 1.  Maybe some reconditioned Jagdpanthers or even a small set of Jagdpanzer E 100 (which was the trigger for the idea and the model I wanted to build in post war colours) before leading to the Kanonenjagdpanzer and even Stridsvagn 103.  Essentially the reformed Deutsches Heer is given a defensive only posture.

Ya mean like the 3rd Reich forces from 1943 on?  ;D :icon_fsm:
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2642 on: September 24, 2020, 07:53:23 AM »
A quick diversion from the 'ground targets'. This was prompted by an SPF discussion (Alternative Supermarine Swift Scenario?) which basically asked: what if the Swift hadn't been such a turd? One detail I noticed was that all of the RW proposed 'improved' Swift concepts - the Type 545, Type 548, etc. - maintain that troublesome extended inboard wing leading edge. So, not much to go on there but, hey, that's what whiffery is for ;)

 - https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/alternative-supermarine-swift-scenario.35378/

_____________________________________________________

Super Swift - A 'Silk Purse' out of Supermarine's 'Sow'?

The Vickers-Supermarine Type 546 Swift F.4 was fitted with a variable-incidence tailplane to cure the type's deadly pitch-up issue. After establishing a briefly-held world speed record, the prototype Swift F.4 prototype was rebuilt as the Type 546PV (Private Venture) by fitting an imported Svenska Flygmotor RM5 powerplant. The Swedish engine - specifically its afterburner - solved the Swift's reheat-at-altitude issue. From that work evolved the Type 546M with a raised, all-flying tail and a revised nose profile. This variant entered RAF service as the Swift F.6 which the RAF regarded as an interim fighter type pending further development and refinement of the airframe.

Top Vickers-Supermarine Type 546M Swift F.6 of No.79 Squadron, RAF Guterslöh, West Germany, late Sept 1956

The source of the Swift's pitch-up problem had been extending the wing leading-edge to accommodate the RAF's demanded doubling of gun armament. Joe Smith et al curbed the issue with the all-flying tailplane but knew that this was not a complete cure. It was decided, for the Swift to have any of the flying qualities of its illustrious ancestors, a completely new wing design was needed. And since the rival Hawker Hunter was being favoured by RAF planners, the Supermarine design would need to provide a 'quantum leap' in performance. To that end, a radical solution was arrived at.

The Vickers-Supermarine Type 549 would begin as another Private Venture exercise. The original Type 546PV was stripped of its wings and had its fuselage and tailplane rebuilt to Swift F.6 standards. A new wing centre section was fitted which accommodated the main undercarriage, twin 30 mm ADEN cannons, and new missile pylons (which extended upwards to act as wing fences). Outboard of those fences, Wing pivot mechanisms to provide variable-sweep. Compared with the F.6's 40° wing sweep angle, the Type 549's variable-geometry allowed the outer wing panels to be 'swung' aft to 60° to achieve transonic speeds. For sustained subsonic flight, a wing sweep of 45° would be selected. To ensure good slow-flying control For landing, sweep could be reduced down to 28°.

The direct inspiration for the 'Swing-Wing Swift' was said to have come through discussions with Saab in Sweden. [1] Swing-wing concept was already under investigation at Vickers - where the Head of the Vickers-Armstrongs Research & Development Department, Barne Wallis was working on his supersonic 'Wild Goose' project. A simplified version of Wallis' mechanism would be employed on the Type 549. Wallis' work was aimed at the supersonic Vickers Sparrow ... which prompted a re-naming suggestion, with the 'Swing-Wing Swift' becoming the Sparrowhawk. Ultimately, Vickers-Supermarine management rejected this name. [2]

Following marketing department recommendations, the Type 549 was dubbed the Vicker-Supermarine 'Switchblade' in advertising. [3] The RAF was having none of it and the service designation became Swift F.10. Initially, it was planned to arm the new fighter with two ADENs and twin 'Blue Jay' Mk.1 missiles (aka 'Red Hawk'. This de Havilland missile - which ultimately became Firestreak in service, was a large, cumbersome system. Vickers proposed a less complex development - in effect, a scaling-down of their 'Red Dean' missile. The proposed 'Red Deacon' air-to-air missile took inspiration from the US Sidewinder-1. 'Red Deacon' would also be infrared-guided and based around a single rocket booster. [4] This 'Red Deacon' proposal was accepted for service use as the Firedrake IR-guided missile.

Bottom 'Switchblade' - Vicker-Supermarine Swift F.10 of No. 2 Squadron, RAF Guterslöh, West Germany, 1958 (later moving to RAF Brüggen). Note Vickers Firedrake Mk.1 short-range AAM on wing fence pylon and nose radome for GEC AI.16R ranging radar. [5]

After initial guidance issues were cured, the Firedrake shed its unflattering sobriquet of 'Firebrat'. Through three marks, the Vickers Firedrake gave good service. Ultimately, the larger Vickers 'Red Dean' was a failure - the  pulse-Doppler radar proving beyond the contemporary state-of-the-art. As a result, neither Swift proposals with 'Red Deans' saw the light of day. These were the radar-equipped Swift F.11 and the gunless Swift F.14 (with 'Red Deans' on inboard pylons and Firedrakes outboard). Also gunless was the Swift T.12 tandem-seat trainer which did see limited service (prior to an RAF decision to standardize on side-by-side Hunter trainers.

____________________________

[1] Postwar, the Swedes had received details on the Messerschmitt Me P.1101 concept (which was refined into the 1951 Bell X-5 - the first variable-geometry jet aircraft to fly). Supermarine officials were in Linköping to fly the new Saab 32 Lansen - both to investigate its Svenska Flygmotor reheat unit and to discuss possible UK license production should the RAF express interest in the Lansen.

[2] Other rejected name proposals for the swing-wing fighter were Supermarine Scythe and Stiletto.

[3] Presumably, this marketing effort was aimed at the export market - in British usage, a 'switchblade' would be more commonly referred to as a 'flick knife'.

[4] The 6-inch diameter 'Red Deacon' solid fuel motor - the Malabar - was a lengthened derivative of one of the DH Firestreak's twin Magpie boosters.

[5] Despite its designation, the AI.16R ('R' for Ranging) had nothing in common with the AI.16 - GEC's losing bid to provide an air intercept radar for the Gloster Javelin all-weather fighter. The AI.16R was, instead, a GEC-built variant of the US AN/APG-5 ranging radar used on the RAF's Canadair Sabres.

BTW: These sideviews are based on the box-art for the Xtrakit Swift.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2643 on: September 25, 2020, 01:09:04 AM »
Hmmm...interesting.  I wonder what a plan view would look like.

Given the Swedish involvement here, are we likely to see a Svenska Flygvapnet Swift F.10?  Perhaps as the J 34?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2644 on: September 26, 2020, 02:49:41 AM »
Given the Swedish involvement here, are we likely to see a Svenska Flygvapnet Swift F.10?  Perhaps as the J 34?

I'm kind of leaning the other direction ... what to do with an export J32 Lansen?
"How many moles do you suppose they're keeping?;
Don't make a sound they're not dead, just sleeping"

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2645 on: September 27, 2020, 03:50:12 AM »
Pre-empting perhaps...

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2646 on: September 28, 2020, 10:55:42 AM »
Very nice! But not quite ...  ;)
________________________


Lansen Down Under - the Saab (GAF) AF-32 Lance

The Avon-powered Saab 32 Lansen was a natural complement to the RAAF's CAC CA-27 Sabre jet fighters. While five squadrons of the single-seat Sabres were fielded, there were only two squadrons of the Swedish two-seat fighters. [1] Both were resurrected WW2 units - No 7 Sqn and No 15 Sqn - which had flown Beauforts in the light bomber and maritime patrol roles. That reflected the originally intended tasking of interception with a secondary strike-fighter role (including maritime interdiction).

Unlike the more numerous Sabres, there would there be no domestic production of Saabs. Instead, airframes were delivered from Sweden as component knock-down kits which were assembled by the Government Aircraft Factory and fitted-out with locally-produced avionics, instruments, and CAC-built Avon engines. [2] The result was designed as the RAAF's Saab (GAF) AF-32 Lance long-range interceptor/strike-fighter.

To satisfy the strike-fighter role, the Lance was tested with a range of air-launched weapons. These included British 3-inch RP3s, US 6-inch (HVAR), and Swedish 7.2-inch HE Anti-Shipping Rocket (18 cm halvpansarraket m/49). [3] In the end, it was concluded that the in-service 80 mm Hispano SURA rocket pods and quartet of 30 mm ADEN cannons was more than sufficient. However, it was intended that the guided Rb04 anti-ship missile with active radar homing would be procured from Sweden when budgetary conditions allowed. Alas, no funds were ever allocated for an Rb04 purchase.

Bottom First Series GAF AF-32 Lance in temporary Aircraft Research and Development Unit markings. The ARDU was responsible for weapons trials including, as shown here, a dozen underwing 3-inch RP3s (with Head, 12 lb., "Practice" No.1 Mk.1). After trials were complete, this aircraft was re-delivered to No 15 Squadron.

Both No 7 and No 15 Squadron were operated from RAAF Base Amberley, the home of the RAAF's Strike Recce Group. The squadrons' Lances were deployed into 'hot' zones twice. The first was patrols along Papua New Guinea's eastern border in 1962. Indonesia had just occupied the former Netherlands New Guinea and TNI-AU aircraft were encrouching into PNG territory. A detail from No 15 Sqn flew patrols out of Port Moresby until being relieved by Sabres of No 75 Sqn. In August 1964, things got 'hotter' for the Lances.

'The Year of Living Dangerously' - Overwatch for Borneo

No 7 Sqn deployed to RAAF Butterworth in Malaya during the Konfrontasi with Indonesia. Officially, the squadron was in Penang to protect the peninsula and Singapore - alongside No 3 Sqn Sabres - during the 'Malayan Emergency'. Unofficially, No 7 was in Malaya in case longer-range was needed to provide top cover for the SASR secretly operating on Borneo. Fortunately, conflict was avoided - the TNI-AU restricting its activities to testing the international boundary. In March of 1965, No 7 wer relieved by Sabres of No 77 Squadron.

Top Saab (GAF) AF-32 Lance of No 7 Squadron, RAAF Butterworth, Malaya, Feb 1965. A99-174 is a Second Series aircraft (all of which were delivered in full camouflage schemes). This aircraft wears the No 7 Squadron 'woomera' emblem on its fin and the dedication name 'City of Ipswich' on its nose (along with the town crest).

Unofficial markings include two 'Fosters Export' labels sported under the cockpit for successful 'tags' - escorting Indonesian TNI-AU aircraft away from Malayan airspace. One of these was for a MiG-17 intercept, the other was the unique 'tag' of a TNI-AU Tupolev Tu-16KS-1 Badger bomber skirting the Malay side of the Strait of Malacca. Note that '174 carried a belly tank and twin AIM-9 missiles. [4]

The Saab AF-32 Lance served for just over a decade. Initially, no mid-life was thought necessary because these aircraft were to be replaced by the much more capable F-111. As the latter programme suffered delays and budget increases, there was no budget available to 'life-extend' the Lances. At the end of December 1967, both No 7 and No 15 Squadron were stood down. When they arrived, the F-111s would replace Canberras. The RAAF's Lances were already history.

____________________________________________________

[1] Both squadrons had a dual-control AFT-32 Lance for refresher training. At set periods, these 'dualies' were loaned out to the RAAF's No.2 Operational Conversion Unit.

[2] The Australian-made turbojets were, however, fitted with Swedish-built afterburners.

[3] Other Swedish-made rockets considered but not tested were: the 4-inch Practice RP (10 cm övningsraket m/47), 5.8-inch AT-RP (14,5 cm pansarsprängraket m/49), and 6-inch HE-RP (15 cm sprängraket M/51).

[4] Early on at Butterworth, the Lances carried a full complement of four Sidewinders. This was later reduced to a pair of AIM-9s to improve intercept performance.
"How many moles do you suppose they're keeping?;
Don't make a sound they're not dead, just sleeping"

Online GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2647 on: September 29, 2020, 02:31:59 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Jonesthetank

  • Almost as dumb as I look
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2648 on: September 29, 2020, 06:46:02 PM »
Reads latest post

Much likes the RAAF Lances

Immediately scans the stash for Heller Lansen kits

Straight to Ebay to see if he can pick a couple up...............

 :smiley:

Offline Frank3k

  • Excession
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2649 on: September 30, 2020, 02:54:38 AM »
Apophenia's posts tend to do much stash searching/ebaying!