Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 456628 times)

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1325 on: June 04, 2016, 02:31:49 PM »
Hmmm...maybe some floatplane P-40s could make it into civilian schemes for the post war revival of the Schneider Trophy (Non Military GB Suggestion)

That almost sound like a future GB, Post War Schneider Trophy competition, maybe with different classes, sprint, long range, light and heavy.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1326 on: June 04, 2016, 09:29:43 PM »
I really like your P-40 Sea Hawk permutations, Apophenia! The first one is especially nice and the "modernization" done to the second one is eminently creditable!

Great stuff for this P-40 fan!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1327 on: June 05, 2016, 04:03:49 AM »
Hmmm...maybe some floatplane P-40s could make it into civilian schemes for the post war revival of the Schneider Trophy (Non Military GB Suggestion)

That almost sound like a future GB, Post War Schneider Trophy competition, maybe with different classes, sprint, long range, light and heavy.

Racing GB which includes such ideas has been suggested a number of times but never gets up.  There should be no reason why they couldn't fit into the current Non-military GB though.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1328 on: June 05, 2016, 04:44:44 AM »
Thanks folks. Hmmm, post-WW2 Schneider Trophy ... gotta do something for that!

Origins of the AP-40 SeaHawk Float Fighters

The idea of Curtiss Hawk monoplanes on floats originated with the Seahawk II [1] concept. In early 1937, Curtiss proposed an export Model 75 Hawk on Seagull float gear. Designated Model 75HP and aimed at sales to China, this proposal was dubbed the 'Yangtze Hawk'.

The 'Yangtze Hawk' was to be powered by a Curtiss-Wright  GR-1820-G3 rated at 875 hp for take-off, and 840 hp at 5,500 feet. Standard undercarriage would be a single main pontoon and twin wingtip floats. Alternatively, fixed, spatted main legs and a fixed tailwheel could replace the float gear.

Due to the structural complexities of the all-metal Hawk 75, it was assumed that Curtiss would build these aircraft with final assembly undertaken by CAMCO in Nanking. Unfortunately, China did not take up the Model 75HP concept (although it did proceed with the Model 75M land fighter).

Seahawk II

The Model 75HP concept with Seagull float gear was eclipsed by a simplied approach - the Hawk Model 75P on twin Edo floats. This new design was intended as a biplane Hawk II replacement for the Colombian Air Force with possible sales to Siam as well. In the end, a single Model 75P was flown but no orders for this Hawk float-fighter appeared (the Model 75P was later converted into the more powerful Model 75Q land fighter demonstrator).
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1329 on: June 05, 2016, 05:00:18 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline AXOR

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1330 on: June 05, 2016, 06:28:32 AM »
Mmmm it looks so natural...lovely  :-*
Alex

Offline dy031101

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1331 on: June 05, 2016, 08:51:07 AM »
Love the Seahawk ideas  :)
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Geist

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1332 on: June 06, 2016, 04:45:31 AM »
 :)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1333 on: June 06, 2016, 06:39:34 AM »
Thanks folks! And now for something completely different ...

The sad saga of the inline-engined Brewster XF3A-1

Over on Secret Projects, there has been some speculation about an "Allison-powered Brewster Buffalo". http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27047.0.html

This V-1710-powered 'Buffalo' was, of course, Brewster Aeronautical Corporation's P.22A project. Less well-known is that a P.22A prototype (of sorts) was actually completed and flown in April 1939.

Now, a photograph of the P.22A has emerged from the Smithsonian NASM Archives' Dayton T. Brown Collection (Series 2). The photo shows the P.22A - or XF3A-1 as it is marked - at the Roosevelt Field final assembly facility in late March 1939.

The aircraft was designated XF3A-1 because, in reality, the airframe was the prototype XF2A-1 (451) returned to Brewster on loan from the US Navy. To Brewster Aeronautical, the realized P.22A project was the Brewster Model 139V (presumably 'V' for V-12 engine). Detail design on the Allison conversion was performed by Raymond D. MacCart.

Despite considerable rearrangement of internal equipment, the XF3A-1 was noticeably nose-heavy and, in consequence, manoeuvrabilty was poor compared with the in-service F2A-1. When testing was cancelled, the XF3A-1 was scheduled to be rebuilt to F2A-2 standards. That never happened. By then, events had overtaken the portly Brewster fighter and, stripped of its powerplant, the sole XF3A-1 languished at Brewster's Newark, NJ hangar until 1942 when it was scrapped.
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1334 on: June 06, 2016, 11:10:40 AM »
Thanks for revealing us this beauty! :-*

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1335 on: June 06, 2016, 12:03:02 PM »
Pretty!  You'd really need to extend the tail aft to get it back into balance, with respect to both cg and aerodynamic balance.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1336 on: June 07, 2016, 03:37:50 AM »
Oh you could fool people with that 'photo' ;)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1337 on: June 09, 2016, 04:55:55 AM »
Oh you could fool people with that 'photo' ;)

I'm relying on the rivet-counters to notice that the Allison's prop is turning the wrong way  ;)

Evan: Too true. Of course, Brewster Aeronautical already knew that they'd face balance problems. The XF2A-1 prototype was available for conversion to  Allison V-1710 because of an earlier mishap.

In late 1938, the US Navy had loaned the XF2A-1 back to Brewster for experimental purposes. Brewster re-engined the XF2A-1 with a 1,050 hp Pratt & Whitney R-1830-66 Twin Wasp. The goal was to test concepts for Brewster's P-24 project. To that end, the Twin Wasp was given with an extension shaft and fitted with an aerodynamically-clean ducted cowling.

Attached is the only known photograph of the revised XF2A-1 in flight. That test flight was very brief as engine temperatures soared due to the cooling inefficiencies of the radial cowling design. The engine failed completely as test pilot, Ralph Romaine, circled to return to Roosevelt Field.

During a dead-stick landing, the aerodynamic advantages of the new cowling turned into something of a liability. Gliding in faster than anticipated, Romaine landed long and had to hit his wheel brakes. The now-nose-heavy XF2A-1 immediately tipped up onto its spinner. The impact damaged the engine mounts, broke the engine crankshaft , and ruined the propeller.

After this fiasco, Brewster quietly abandoned its proposed P-24 project. The damaged XF2A-1 was supposed to be rebuilt for the US Navy but Brewster had higher priorities in productionizing the F2A-2. In the end, as we know, the engineless XF2A-1 would be rebuilt as the Allison-powered XF3A-1.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1338 on: June 09, 2016, 10:16:53 AM »
Apparently, Dayton T. Brown redesigned the XSBA-1, first as a 2-seat fighter, then as a single-seat fighter. This predated Brown'ss design of the XF2A. No clue what those SBA designs would have actually looked like, but here's my take on the single-seater -- the XSA-1. [1]

Mine is probably a bit more conservative than what Brown had in mind. I have assumed a common design that could be readily produced in either configuration - basically, the single-seat having the rear cockpit paneled over. Brown was considering a single-seat version fitted with a "semi-bubble canopy".

Again, I have no idea of what such a canopy would have looked like. Maybe something akin to the
Gloster F.5/34? Or maybe something more like the slightly later Grumman G-34/XF5F-1 Skyrocket?
________________________

[1] The US Navy 'S' for Scout designation was short-lived ... but seemed appropriate for a potential 1-/2-seat shipboard fighter. AFAIK, the Grumman SF-1 Fifi variant was the only aircraft to have the plain Scout designation applied.
________________________
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1339 on: June 09, 2016, 11:28:05 AM »
Thanks for all this! It is so uncommon, is this all Photoshop dreams of nowadays? or unknown archives of that time?

Offline AXOR

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1340 on: June 10, 2016, 03:08:19 AM »
 :)
Alex

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1341 on: June 11, 2016, 12:18:31 PM »
Thanks for all this! It is so uncommon, is this all Photoshop dreams of nowadays? or unknown archives of that time?

Tophe: All strictly unknown archive material from that time. What is this "Photoshop" you speak of?  ;)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1342 on: June 11, 2016, 12:20:11 PM »

Dayton Brown saw potential in the Brewster Model 139 as the basis for a lightweight fighter. This Project 24 concept was explored with the US Navy's Bureau of Aeronautics but the BuAer saw no real role for lightweight shipboard fighters.

Brown then more fully fleshed-out his P-24 lightweight fighter notion as a potential export product. The idea behind what became the Brewster Model  was to re-use the Brewster Model 139 wings and empennage largely unchanged. A new, slimmer fuselage would be tailored to the new Ranger V-770 air-cooled V-12 engine. With supercharging, the Ranger-powered fighter was expected to acheive 340 hp at altitude.

The first nibble of interest came from the French Purchasing Commission who saw the lightweight Brewster as a back-up to their Caudron C.714 Cyclone. The project kicked into high gear when it was decided to power the fighter with the French Renault 12R engine instead of the delayed US Ranger powerplant.

The Brewster Model 424A Bruant (Bunting) - was to be armed with two (or four) 7.5mm MAC 1934 guns in the wings and twin synchronized 20mm Hispano-Suiza cannons. Armament and engines would be installed upon arrival at French Bases de stockage. As it happens, France fell before the prototype P-24 was even completed.

In the meantime, Ray MacCart had been implementing NACA suggestions to reduce drag on the F2A. The result was the XF2A-5 which featured Brown's 'semi-bubble' canopy and a 'cleaned up' airframe. Most noticeable was a longer cowling to accommodate fan-cooling for the Cyclone radial. Great attention was paid to the smooth abutment of skin panels and the wheelwells were faired.

The XF2A-5 did everything that was expected of it. Unfortunately for Brewster Aeronautical, XF2A-5 performance was still judged inferior to that of the Grumman F4F-4 Wildcat and no order for 'Super Buffalo' production was received.

____________________________________________
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1343 on: June 12, 2016, 03:35:57 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1344 on: June 12, 2016, 12:44:06 PM »
Thanks for all this! It is so uncommon, is this all Photoshop dreams of nowadays? or unknown archives of that time?
Tophe: All strictly unknown archive material from that time. What is this "Photoshop" you speak of?  ;)
Ahem, this looks like counter-smile ??? , and I still don't know if this is archives or dream (I refuse the negative word "fake"). Anyway I love your profile of streamlined Buffalo :-*

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1345 on: June 13, 2016, 02:02:11 AM »
Wow you've been creating some amazing wonders, Apophenia!

Your Seahawk II in that fetching NMF is stunning and I really like your latest Brewster concepts too.

I'm bowled over by the knowledge behind these delightful works and wondering why it never occurred to me before to put an Allison on a Buffalo. That is absolute genius in my book!

Brian da Basher

Offline Geist

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1346 on: June 13, 2016, 07:29:03 AM »
Nice profiles ;)
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1347 on: June 13, 2016, 09:09:03 AM »
Thanks folks.

Brian: Putting an Allison in the Buffalo was great fun as a whif. I'm just stunned that Brewster actually consider the idea for real!

... wondering why it never occurred to me before to put an Allison on a Buffalo.

A 'Super Buffalo' into Service

A variation on the 424A Bruant light fighter for the French was the Brewster Model 424G (P-24G) Brétailleur (Duelist). Using Bruant wings and empennage, the Brétailleur was to have a more corpulent fuselage to accommodate a Gnome-Rhône 14M Mars twin-row radial engine. A further develpment was the P-24N with a larger-diameter Gnome-Rhône 14N. That concept led to the Twin Wasp-powered P-28/F4A Brigand shipboard fighter prototype.

The XF4A-1 was a light fighter only by American standards. The XF4A-1 could be seen as an evolution of the XF2A-5 concept. As with the XF2A-5, the XF4A-1's engine was fitted with an extension shaft. In the case of the XF4A-1, the R-1830 was fan-cooled. To counter the weight of the Twin Wasp and its cooling fan, the rear fuselage was extended.

Compared with the XF2A-5, the XF4A-1 was a great success but it lacked the performance edge to be the 'Zero Killer' that Dayton T. Brown had been counting on. Pax River Navy test pilots were also critical of control and visibility on simulated carrier approaches. More work was needed.

The XF4A-2 incorporated a sliding bubble canopy to improve visibility but, if anything, this worsened slow-speed control. This prototype was reworked as the XF4A-3 with a revised rear fuselage and a completely new empennage. The Buffalo-style tailfin and rudder was abandoned in favour of a taller unit reminiscent of that used on the production SBN divebombers.

The F4A-3 was ordered into production for the US Navy but Brewster Aeronautical was very slow in delivering completed airframes and workmanship was often poor. In the event, almost all of the Brigands went to Marine Corps squadrons in the Pacific.

Shown here are the XF4A-1 prototype and an F4A-3A Brigand which replaced the F2A-3s of VMF-222.

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Offline Tophe

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1348 on: June 13, 2016, 11:14:16 AM »
The bubble-Buffallo is cute! like an elegant pig lady... ;)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1349 on: June 13, 2016, 11:53:06 AM »
Really liking this Brewster concept. 
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