Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 370329 times)

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2445 on: January 22, 2020, 09:58:52 AM »
Maybe a contra-prop like they used on the Boeing F8B

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2446 on: January 22, 2020, 10:59:46 AM »
Thanks folks! The XF8B-1's Aeroproducts AD7562-XB contra-prop and spinner would look great (and lessen potential tip speed problems).

I'm guessing there'd be weight gain up front though. So, maybe a longer rear fuselage to compensate?
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2447 on: January 22, 2020, 02:51:14 PM »
Thanks folks! The XF8B-1's Aeroproducts AD7562-XB contra-prop and spinner would look great (and lessen potential tip speed problems).

I'm guessing there'd be weight gain up front though. So, maybe a longer rear fuselage to compensate?

Weight delta between the R-2800 engined F4U-1 and the R-4360 engined F4U-1 WM was 1284 lbs.
Directly engine and installation related:
Engine + 866 lbs
Prop +200 lbs
Engine mounts/cowl etc. +115 lbs
Piping, fittings misc. + 64 lbs

Total 1245 lbs fwd of the firewall.

The numbers would be similar for the switch on the F8F.
 
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2448 on: January 23, 2020, 12:17:31 AM »


I'm guessing there'd be weight gain up front though. So, maybe a longer rear fuselage to compensate?

You could do the same what Supermarine did with the Spitfire Stephen. It's well documented the different total lengths of the various engine/prop powered Spitfires, the longest being 3 feet longer than the Mk.I. What is not well documented is the length of the fuselage from the engine bulkhead to the tail assembly joint never changed through it's whole production cycle (and for that matter, neither did the distance between the tail assembly joint and the rudder hinge line), and that includes all the Seafires, Spitefuls and Seafangs too. The difference in length is all accountable with what engine/prop was installed on the front and what rudder was installed on the fin.

Supermarine's solution to the weight problem was to have counter-weights installed in the space between Frame 18 and Frame 19 (the tail assembly joint frame). The most weight installed was over 200lbs. Information in the Morgan/Shacklady book has drawing diagrams of the counter-weight installation.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 12:41:32 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2449 on: January 23, 2020, 03:50:57 AM »
Ballasting was a common solution to engine change issues, both lighter
and heavier engines. If it was possible to change the engine mount to
mount a lighter engine further forward, that was done, in some cases
that wasn't an option so the ballast would be added forward.
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2450 on: January 23, 2020, 06:24:28 AM »
Yep. For a carrier aircraft - with inherit stowage concerns - ballasting probably makes more sense than a longer airframe. Easier to whif too  ;)
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2451 on: January 25, 2020, 12:19:33 PM »
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-23/nsw-rfs-air-tanker-crashes-near-numeralla-bushfire/11893554

For those who haven't heard, on 23 January, Coulson's Large Air Tanker N134CG was lost near Cooma, NSW, with its crew of crew. With the tragic crash of Tanker 134, I was hestitant to start throwing around what-if waterbomber concepts. However, in light of the urgency surrounding air tankers, I've decided to press on ,,,

All I'm really doing is illustration a concept already broached. The Hellenic Air Force is considering eliminating their Canadair CL-215 fleet for economic reasons. My proposal is that an Australian state (or states) make an offer to Athens for these aircraft and have them shipped to Oz for refurbishing and rebuild.

My notion was to upgrade the CL-215s to CL-415EAF (Enhanced Aerial Firefighter) standards using Viking Air kits delivered to Australia. To broaden the appeal/usefulness of these aircraft, I've shown the rebuild with CL-415 MP (Multi-Purpose) features - MSS antennae farm, etc. My thought was that whichever state took on the Canadairs could contract them (through Surveillance Australia?) for patrol/SAR work outside of fire season.

BTW: The rego VH-NSW belongs to the state government (currently NSW Department of Lands) and would have to be tranferred from their Cessna 421C (operated by Bathurst Aircraft Maintenance Centre).
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline ericr

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2452 on: January 25, 2020, 04:08:03 PM »
 :smiley:

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2453 on: January 27, 2020, 06:07:12 AM »
Happy Australia Day to all!

Not a whif this time, but a tribute to the crew of Air Tanker 134...
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2454 on: January 28, 2020, 04:09:05 AM »
That's a very thoughtful tribute, apophenia.

A salute to the selfless brave who risk all for Australia.

Brian da Basher