Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 336943 times)

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2340 on: October 15, 2019, 06:07:00 AM »
To elaborate on the Spitfire/Spiteful wings, they had a main spar and an auxiliary spar (rear) which was basically used to mount the control surfaces to. The main spar connected to the fuselage using a massive seven-bolt drop-forged interlocking lug, the auxiliary spar though was connected with a single pin which was held in place by a washer and cotter pin. This pin was horizontal and ran parallel to the fuselage centerline. In effect, it means the auxiliary spar could 'flap' up or down and I've always thought that under extreme maneuvers, there was some sort of 'wing-warping' going on which would enhance what the ailerons were doing, the wing twisting around the main spar.

All this I've got from the Morgan/Shacklady book, except where my thoughts are.

The rear fuselage of the second and third prototype Spiteful also had the same side profile as a standard Spitfire, but a different cross-section above the datum longeron to accommodate the raised cockpit. However, Frame 19 (the tail assembly joint frame) was the same as any Spitfire.

I built this a while ago mating a Spiteful fuselage to a Spitfire wing
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 06:16:41 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2341 on: October 22, 2019, 09:26:54 AM »
I built this a while ago mating a Spiteful fuselage to a Spitfire wing

Very nice, Robert  :smiley:  Some time ago, I did an ur-Spiteful profile somewhat along that line ...

But for now, some election-day trouble-making ...  >:D
__________________________

Canada's Future Fighter Capability Project (FFCP) which collapsed in the Spring of 2023. DND attempted to launch a New Future Fighter Capability (NFFC) project without success. After the 44rd Canadian general election (held on 16 October 2023), a major bureaucratic revisions to defence procurement was made. Under those revisions, the AIR 3026 program was begun.

AIR 3026 Phase 1 - aka CSIA/AISC or the Canadian Sovereignty Interceptor Aircraft Program/Programme canadien des aéronefs intercepteurs de la souveraineté - represented a broader contest for a more restricted fighter role. [1] This was one outcome of the 2023-2027 Canada Defence Plan resulting from a majority agreement within Parliament. AIR 3026 moved through to completion with tremendous speed (by previous Canadian procurement standards) but the outcome would prove just as contentious.

Since most modern fighters are designed as multi-purpose aircraft, it proved difficult to find a range of dedicated interceptors. As potential AIR 3026 candidates were winnowed, only one design remained viable - based on performance, availability, and cost. This was the J-20 'Mighty Dragon' from China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC). Incorporating little Western technology, the J-20 immediately raised concerns over compatibility with the aircraft's primary intended role - satisfying Canada's NORAD commitments. The United States government also had ideological 'issues' with the supplier.

Unbeknownst to Washington, the J-20 purchase was actually a component of addressing Ottawa's own concerns about dealing with the People's Republic of China. A previous Canadian government had sign a trade treaty with the PRC - the Foreign Investment Protection Agreement (FIPA) - which compromised Canadian sovereignty in several respects. [2] China was willing to abandon FIPA without penalty in exchange for opening Canadian military procurement - especially shipbuilding - to potential Chinese suppliers. So, the J-20 fit the bill for a new long-range RCAF interceptor while also meeting a pre-condition of escaping from the terms of FIPA.

Enter the 'Dragon - the CAC CF-200 Canuck II Interceptor

In RCAF service, the Chengdu interceptor would be known as the CF-200A Canuck II. It represented a slightly less capable fighter than its PLAAF equivalent - most notably in lacking the J-20's thrust-vectoring Shenyang WS-15 turbofan engines. Instead, the CF-200 retained the earlier Shenyang WS-10C engines - designated CFM/Shenyang TF-10 in the West. These engines reduce the CF-200's manoeuvrability (and 'supercruise' potential) but these were capabilities seen as non-essential for the Canadian interceptor role.

Equipment for the CF-200 has a mixture of Western and Chinese origin. Examples of retained PRC electronics include the PeDAS (Photo-electric Distributed Aperture System) electro-optic sensors, EORD-31 IR search and track, EOTS-86 EO targeting system, and AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar - assigned the JETDS/NORAD designation AN/APG(C)-98C. The most important Western electronics are the MADL (Multi-function Advanced Datalink) network and Link 16 communications system (installed in Canada at US DOD insistance).

From the RCAF's retiring CF-18M fleet, the CF-200 inherited the pilot's JHMCS (Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System), AN/ARC-210 radios, AN/AYQ-9 Stores Management System, and pylon-mounted ACMI (Air Combat Manoeuvring Instrumentation) system. CF-18 330 gallon drop tanks can also be carried on the CF-200 Canuck II's removable wing pylons.

Also carried over from the CF-18M were AIM-120 missiles. Standard load in the CF-200A's main missile bay is four SD-15J long-range BVRAAMs. A shorter-range AIM-120 missile is carried on either side of the main bay (in a smaller, lateral weapon bay) for self-defence. [3] As needed, four wing pylons can be mounted and used to carry weapons (although, as noted above, these pylons are used almost exclusively to carry drop tanks for ferry flights).

Procurement Politics Go Cross-Border

Multiple objections were made to the Canadian purchase of a Chinese-made interceptor to satisfy NORAD. US President Mike Pence went so far as accusing Prime Minister McKenna of personal interference in the procurement process while endangering North American security. European objections to the RCAF abandoning the ground-attack role would ease once Canada confirmed that Land Forces (including upgraded Leopard 2a8M tanks) would soon be returning to reinforce NATO in Europe. How all this plays out politically, remains to be seen ...

____________________________

[1] Plans to fill the NORAD interceptor role while abandoning NATO/Coalition ground attack missions became an election issue in 2023. This decision sprang from choices made by Chrystia Freeland, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and Andrew Leslie, Parliamentary Secretary for Military Reform and Procurement.

[2] In official circles, this treaty was labelled the Canada-China Promotion and Reciprocal Protection of Investments Agreement (CCPRPIA). This agreement came to be seen to unfairly favour Chinese investors - including those representing state-owned Chinese businesses.

[3] AIM-120s often form the sole armament on twin-seat CF-200B trainers. On PLAAF J-20s, those lateral bays carry 'short-range' Luoyang PL-10 IR AAMs.
"And loot some for the old folks, Can't loot for themselves"

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2342 on: October 22, 2019, 09:38:40 AM »
Wow. You are a real s**t disturber tonight!  ;D

Looks like I will have to now build my J-20 as a CF-200.

Nice touch given tonight's entertainment.
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2343 on: October 22, 2019, 05:29:29 PM »
Anything named Canuck I can't help but support. And buy a beer.
 :icon_beer:
Or two
 :icon_beer: :icon_beer:
or three
 :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer:
Not that they drink too much or anything.

Yet more fantastic profiles that are utterly convincing. And get more convincing the more beers you have.
 :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer: :icon_beer:
I think I'd better call a cab.
 :-X
Great stuff, Apophenia!
 8)
Brian da Basher

Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2344 on: October 23, 2019, 01:29:00 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Do the avionics come with built in backdoors, to allow remote access?  ;D
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2345 on: October 25, 2019, 07:23:31 AM »
<...>
Looks like I will have to now build my J-20 as a CF-200. <...>

Same here.  :smiley: Have one in the stash - though it may be amongst the drowned and warped ones, not sure -, but no real whiffing idea for it. Until now. Leafy roundels look great on this.
Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2346 on: October 25, 2019, 10:03:53 AM »
Thanks folks! I'd love to see the CF-200 in polystyrene

Do the avionics come with built in backdoors, to allow remote access?  ;D

Jon: Doubtless that was the original plan. However, the immense distances involved precluded remote access (it's almost 9,500 km from PVG to the RCAF's FOL at YFB, for example). Thus, a simpler approach was needed.

The solution arrived at by the Ministry of State Security (MSS) was the CHEATER (Chinese Hidden Electronics Access Technician, Emergency Response) programme. Under CHEATER, Chengdu was directed by the MSS to include a false wall in the avionics bay. Inside that conditioned compartment, a diminutive agent awaited any signal from home to hit the 'kill' switch.

As an elite unit, the CHEATER programme accepted only select individuals. Firstly, CHEATER operatives could measure no more than 150 cm in height and weigh less than 45 kg. Successful CHEATER candidates must also produce transcripts proving that they have graduated in the bottom third of their class. Although a lonely occupation, CHEATER accommodations are pressurized with avionics provide heat (for technician comfort) and microwave radiation (for zapping pre-packaged noodles and gaifan).

"... Don't matter how stumpy!"

The extent of the CHEATER programme only became apparent due to malfunctions with its sophisticated Fēngmì tǒng (蜂蜜桶) system. Following standard PRC commercial practices (eg, Chinese-flagged freighters about to enter Canadian waters), the 'FT' was to be emptied only once the CF-200 began its final approach. Contrary to official expectations, these 'Honey Bucket' bombing runs did not remain completely unnoticed. Aircraft Structure Technician complaints about unsightly (and rather pungent) staining of the RF-shielding paintwork aft of the avionics bays also raised RCAF suspicions.

Once the first CHEATER operatives were uncovered (and immediately rushed to the nearest shower facilities for a hose-down), Ottawa issued a formal protest to Ambassador Cong Peiwu at the Embassy of the People's Republic of China in Canada. In H.E. Mr. Cong response, it was noted that CHEATER operatives were technically employees of Sinopec (China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation). As such, CHEATER operatives were simply exercising their remaining rights under the amended FIPA treaty. It seemed that an impasse had been reached. However, the RCAF found its own solution to these unwelcome hitchhikers.

An AvsTech at CFB Bagotville suggested a simply but highly-effective 'cure'. The key to cplc JS Tonsourd's plan was wiring a cheap (but not Chinese-made) MP3 player and speaker into the avionics bay. A perpetual loop of My Heart Will Go On and Pour Que Tu M'aimes Encore would then be broadcast towards the CHEATER compartment. Once implemented, Chinese officials denounced this RCAF move as psychological warfare. Ottawa rejected this claim. Firstly, the PRC had said that CHEATER operatives were civilian employees of Sinopec. Secondly, as was well-known, everyone loves Céline Dion!

One outcome of the RCAFs 'Co-Chea' (Counter CHEATER) campaign was a sudden spike in refugee claims emanating from the vicinity of their avionics compartments. For his efforts, caporal-chef Tonsourd was named 'Airperson of the Year' for 2026.
"And loot some for the old folks, Can't loot for themselves"

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2347 on: October 25, 2019, 11:19:25 AM »
*SNORT!*  I loved that!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 11:45:28 AM by elmayerle »

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2348 on: October 26, 2019, 11:24:13 AM »
Cheers Evan!

Now in the U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB ... The North American NA-60A Notenkraker:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8810.msg161429#new
"And loot some for the old folks, Can't loot for themselves"

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2349 on: October 26, 2019, 08:16:14 PM »
You've come up with more stunners, apophenia!

Those are great! Headed over to the GB thread now...

Brian da Basher
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 08:21:27 PM by Brian da Basher »

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2350 on: November 01, 2019, 06:19:51 AM »
'Nuther one for the U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB ... The Douglas B-22B Dragon.

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8819.0
"And loot some for the old folks, Can't loot for themselves"

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2351 on: November 01, 2019, 07:45:13 AM »
Headed over there now. Wow what a beauty!

Brian da Basher

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2352 on: November 05, 2019, 09:15:15 AM »
I started this one for the U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB ... but it just didn't pan out  :P

The idea was a growth version of the Curtiss Hawk (expedited once USAAC P-40Bs were exposed to Bf 109Es over France). The problem was that I was planning for a twin-row Wright radial sized between the R-1820 and the R-2600. I ended up with a WHIF R-2075 putting out 1,410 hp (6.125" bore x 5.5") ... which doesn't provide much advantage over the proven Twin Wasp.

The lower profile was to represent an engine testbed I'd call the XP-42B. Besides the engine gubbins, the main changes were the lengthened tail section and revised canopy (meant to test the glazing intended for the production type). The pointy spinner is just to emphasize the P-40 link.

The upper profile depicts the P-60 which was to be a 'clean-sheet' design. Instead, wartime urgency produced this compromised P-60A model. Instead of the intended all-new airframe, the new laminar-flow wing - with a NACA 63(1)-412 airfoil - was joined with a modified P-40 fuselage and the XP-42B's extended tail. To my eyes, the overall effect of the P-60A ended up being clunky and ill-proportioned. So, I pulled the plug on this one ...
"And loot some for the old folks, Can't loot for themselves"

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2353 on: November 05, 2019, 04:59:21 PM »
 ??? Doesn't look bad to me. :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2354 on: November 05, 2019, 05:44:53 PM »
I think this quite attractive. The upper version has a slight  Lavochkin La-7  vibe to it
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.