Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 257983 times)

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1905 on: November 06, 2018, 05:48:24 AM »
I like it. Would like right at home beside a B-18 Bolo.
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1906 on: November 06, 2018, 07:06:52 AM »
I like it. Would like right at home beside a B-18 Bolo.

Absolutely spot-on sir!

You have laser-like insights Mr Gimper.

Brian da Basher

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1907 on: November 07, 2018, 01:17:52 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1908 on: November 07, 2018, 04:31:26 AM »
Thanks folks! Regularly-scheduled Handley Page broadcasts will resume shortly. I've been briefly distracted by the Reggiane Re.2004  - originally being an Re.2005 derivative powered by an engine designed by the Officine Meccaniche Italiane "Reggiane".

An Re.2004 prototype did eventually fly - as an Re.2005 airframe fitted with an Isotta-Fraschini Zeta air-cooled X-24 engine. See Retired In Kalifornia's Re.2004 build: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8198.0

My take shows the initial Reggiane Re.2004 concept powered by OMI Reggiane's own engine - the Reggiane Re.103 RC50 I. OMI Reggiane referred to this powerplant as an 18 Cilindra M - ie: an 18-cylinder engine with an 'M' layout (or, as usually described in English, an inverted 'W' layout).

(Top) The prototype Reggiane Re.2004 nearly completion. Here, the Reggiane Re.103 engine has been installed in a converted Re.2005 Sagittario airframe (M.M.526).

The Reggiane Re.103 RC.50 I was approximately the same size as the Re.2005's Tifone engine - a license-built German DB 605A. The OMI Reggiane engine was almost 6-inches wider due to its third cylinder row. It was also slightly longer than the Tifone. But, perhaps most importantly, the Italian 'M-18' weighed more than 200 pounds more than its German IV-12 equivalent.

(Bottom) A production Reggiane Re.2004bis fighter in RSI markings.

Compared with the prototype Re.2004 conversion, the Re.2004bis airframe has a lengthened fuselage - needed to restore the fighter's centre of gravity. [1] The 'stretch' occuring at the c/g enlarged the fuselage weapons bay, allowing twin Mauser MG151/20 cannons to mounted in place of the Re.2005's pair of synchronized 12.7 mm Breda machine guns. So, total fixed armament for the Re.2004bis was four 20mm Mausers - the two synchronized guns and another pair of wing-mounted cannons firing outside the propeller arc.

BTW: My Reggiane Re.2004s are based on two Re.2005 sideviews by Angelo Brioschi. [2]

____________________________

[1] This fuselage 'stretch' was less extreme than that for the Reggiane Re.2006 - powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 603A. That larger German engine weighed a further 160 pounds over the Italian Re.103 powerplant.

[2] Brioschi shows the prototype Re.2005 in overall silver (other than its pre-finished fabric surfaces). I've left it that way but, more probably, that prototype was finished in Italian primer - that slightly bileous yellow depicted to perfection by Retired In Kalifornia.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1909 on: November 07, 2018, 05:13:30 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1910 on: November 07, 2018, 12:17:33 PM »
That's beautiful and so very, very tempting to attempt.

Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1911 on: November 07, 2018, 12:56:07 PM »
H.P. 53, the Swedish Bomber:


Proposal to Spec. M.15/35, basically H.P. 52 wings and tail grafted onto a new wider fuselage:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1912 on: November 07, 2018, 01:09:03 PM »
Some numbers for those interested.

H.P. 55 (two Hercules 1SM or two Merlin XX)
Span: 95'
Length: 65' 3"

H.P. 56 (two Vulture X)
Span: 88'
Length: 66' 6"

Note that the H.P. 55 has almost exactly the same span and similar wing planform as
the DC-3, it's in effect a Harrow based fuselage with a very Douglas like wing.


"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1913 on: November 09, 2018, 05:22:59 AM »
Ooo ... great stuff Jon! I'm sensing some more deviations coming in my intended Handley Page path  ;D
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Offline jcf

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1914 on: November 10, 2018, 12:19:41 PM »
The next Handley Page installment is Real World ... sort of. An illustration of a twin-engined medium bomber (inset) was featured in the 14 May 1936 edition of Flight magazine. According to the caption, the image had originally appeared in a corporate journal, The Handley Page Bulletin. [1]

The design depicted is probably just the imaginings of a marketing department artist. However, this artist's concept does have a decidedly Handley Page feel about it - especially in the wings. And its stylish nose cap anticipates changed coming for the H.P. 51 Hampden prototype. Indeed, although few specific features overlap, the concept does evoke the production Hampden in a very general way.

That said, other features - like the single tail fin and rudder - aren't really Handley Page-like at all. Still, I find this artist's concept oddly appealling. So, here is that notional 1936 medium bomber as a wartime aircraft I suspect that this aircraft might have been a bit underpowered, so I've depicted it in a night bomber finish (in the markings of No.83 Squadron, RAF).

I've added a few operational details - exhaust muffs, antennae, etc. - as well as fixing the retractable tailwheel in the 'down' position (which seemed to happen with most RAF types of the day).
______________________________________

[1] Flight noted the design being "somewhat similar to the H.P.53 type" - the planned Swedish version of the RAF's H.P. 51 Hampden. Flight also noted what seemed to be "liquid-cooled Rolls-Royce engines."


The tail is similar to that of the H.P. 47:

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/hp47.html

"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1915 on: November 15, 2018, 07:41:12 AM »
The tail is similar to that of the H.P. 47 ...

Excellent Jon ... that answers where that vertical tail came from  :smiley:

Any idea if any illustration exists of the unarmed bomber that Volkert sketched out as a comparison for P.13/36?

Attached are two images for Swedish H.P.53s. Alas, I forgot to bring their backstories to the computer lab. So, ma˝ana ...
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1916 on: November 15, 2018, 08:49:39 AM »
 :smiley: :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1917 on: November 15, 2018, 08:58:15 AM »
I really like how you added so much Swedish character to these birds. Goes above and beyond simply a marking change.

Most excellent, apophenia!

Brian da Basher

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1918 on: November 15, 2018, 08:59:23 PM »

nive floatplanization !


Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #1919 on: November 16, 2018, 03:51:32 AM »
Nice work.

Some further inspiration may be found here
All hail the God of Frustration!!!