Author Topic: Burnelli UB-38  (Read 15862 times)

Offline Tophe

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Burnelli UB-38
« on: August 21, 2013, 11:44:09 PM »
As Lockheed, with its P-38 design, failed to reach the long-range specifications, the Burnelli company modified it with much more room for fuel: UB-38.
Trans-Pacific ability!

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 12:03:35 AM »
I think I will have to modify the leading edge, with the help of http://www.jitterbuzz.com/manreal/burnelli_01.jpg

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 12:13:49 AM »
Improved version (able to fly!):

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 12:35:28 AM »
The UB-38 (then improved UB-38A) was the "real" part, but Ing. Burnelli then said this plane coulda/woulda/shoulda have radial engines like his UB-14B: this led to the UB-38B...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 01:44:29 AM »
My son Jacky disapproved this design UB-38B and required the tail to be removed, and the colour to be changed (shoulda!): UB-38J

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 02:11:36 AM »
Engineer Jacky, 4 years old, required less realistic colours, and I added a canard tailplane for balance...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 01:58:51 PM »
As the foreplane denied the "flying wing" name on the UB-38K, we coulda/woulda/shoulda add fins for better control: UB-38L

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 10:54:01 PM »
Cooperation with my little son goes on, do you adults have other improvement ideas?

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 12:20:30 AM »
To take off with trans-Pacific fuel, 3 engines might have been necessary:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 12:31:41 AM »
With a very long runway and reduced drag, one engine might have been enough at last...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 01:08:57 AM »
With a bigger engine and even reduced drag, this gave the UB-38MD (Minimum Drag):

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 02:07:57 AM »
A derivative of the former, more balanced when the tanks are empty: UB-38ME

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 02:19:39 AM »
UB-38MF: reduced drag did not mean two engines were forbidden (to have a free nose)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2013, 06:34:09 PM »
With a bigger engine and even reduced drag, this gave the UB-38MD (Minimum Drag):
Wrong! A Lightning cannot be single engined! A Zwilling may cure the problem, even in the flying wing family:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2013, 06:53:39 PM »
Increased range on this version:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2013, 07:07:39 PM »
A more compact, slightly asymmetric version:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2013, 12:25:57 AM »
My wife cooperated also: this is the UB-38A-3:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2013, 12:34:59 AM »
Super long range version (if able to take off): UB-38A-1

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2013, 12:45:50 AM »
The UB-38A-2 was different from the UB-38A in having its 2 engines on the centerline. The rear one was shut down after take off to save fuel.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2013, 12:57:08 AM »
For very long subsonic flights over the Pacific, two pilots shoulda be there...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2013, 01:23:06 AM »
Made by Burnelli or not, a Lightning shoulda be twin-boom, not triplex-boom...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2013, 01:39:24 AM »
Without huge tailplane, does this one count as quadruple boom?

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2013, 07:33:00 AM »
Tophe and the Amazing Technicolor Lightning Whif!  ;D

I'm kinda partial to the triple-engined one your wife inspired and to the single-engined one derived from that.  :)
Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2013, 10:21:41 AM »
Thanks for your answer... Do you have other ideas for a Burnelli Lightning?

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2013, 12:57:39 PM »
Google pictures, for "Burnelli", finds immediately a jet-Burnelli patent at http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Canada/Canada_Car/burnelli_designs.htm
So... here is a Burnelli Jet-Lightning:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2013, 01:04:09 PM »
What? A Lightning shoulda be twin-engined? No problem for the Burnelli design team:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2013, 01:14:57 PM »
Far away from my naive dreams, I shoulda face the bloody urgency in 1945: fighting the Me-163 Komet transsonic fighter... This requires rocket and swept wings, Burnelli or not:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2013, 01:45:30 PM »
And from Burnelli's http://www.aerofiles.com/burnelli-wing.jpg I shoulda add:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2013, 04:20:16 PM »
What? I shoulda be more realist? and respect Burnelli's tailplane and contra-props? I fear I am unable to be realistic but any transformation is welcome:

(with 8 micro-engines...)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2013, 04:35:00 PM »
What do you mean "micro-engines do not exist, Burnelli was designing a huge bomber"? Well I do not understand the meaning of "exist" and I dislike terror-bombing, but I woulda imagine a huge airliner with 8 normal engines:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2013, 05:20:19 PM »
What a shame!: Google found a Burnelli patent that was neither twin-boom nor flying wing but featuring a simple tail...
see http://hobby-maquettes.xooit.fr/t902-GRUMMAN-XF5-f1-SKYROCKET.htm
A Burnelli-Lightning shoulda match:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2013, 06:42:41 PM »
Fortunately, the Zwilling derivative restored the twin-boom layout of the Lightning:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2013, 06:59:54 PM »
A more compact derivative:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2013, 09:26:00 PM »
Of course, old archives explain that the Uppercu-Burnelli family UB came from the Remington-Burnelli family RB, but there has also been a RB-38, biplane
See http://www.aerofiles.com/burnelli-rb1.jpg
 

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2013, 09:32:23 PM »
From the biplane RB-38 woulda come the monoplane XUB-38:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2013, 09:35:37 PM »
And then the twin-boom YUB-38, now you know almost all of the Burnelli-Lightning...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2013, 12:23:53 AM »
On Burnelli's main page http://www.burnelliaircraft.com/ is a true canard with lifting fuselage, and I shoulda make a connection with the Lightning:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2013, 12:25:04 AM »
And the twin-jet derivative:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2013, 12:26:03 AM »
Final: the rocket version:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2013, 01:23:43 AM »
There was not enough asymmetry in this topic of mine... I shoulda include more uncommon derivatives.
The UB-38O was a Flying Observation Post:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2013, 01:36:44 AM »
In 1946 there coulda/woulda/shoulda be a jet derivative of the UB-38O:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2013, 03:02:26 AM »
Without asymmetry, the result was less sexy:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2013, 01:20:49 PM »
The rocket derivative was even better for tourism:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2013, 01:39:27 PM »
I don't like my national colours (too bright) but as long as this is for tourism, it's OK:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2013, 01:54:11 PM »
Even better with jets at wingtips:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2013, 03:42:38 PM »
In the new Trait d'Union magazine (#270) is an article about the Turboclair ground device made with French Vampire. A Burnelli-Lightning derivative would have been efficient (against fog) for a much longer duration:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2013, 04:25:51 PM »
A twin-"plane" would have an improved volume coverage:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2013, 04:35:04 PM »
A simplified (twin-boom) version:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2013, 06:00:06 PM »
Far from ground devices, the very first designs of jet-aircraft had to deal with 2 commands : several units as the power was low, lots of tank room because jets were eating much. The Burnelli layout was good for that:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2013, 06:22:37 PM »
Burnelli Lightning pulse-jet fighter:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2013, 07:03:20 PM »
Pulse jets are not atomic engines, they may be closer to the pilot:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2013, 09:36:26 PM »
Blohm und Voss licence-built the Burnelli Lightning, but with a difference:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2013, 09:57:39 PM »
The UB-38BV-1 above found no purchaser, all customers being afraid of a flying-wing design and of a single asymmetric engine. Blohm und Voss thus designed the UB-38BV-2 below, still with Burnelli's aproval:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2013, 10:20:43 PM »
For marketing reasons, the Blohm und Voss catalogue needed an UB-38BV-3 so it shoulda be designed:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2013, 12:11:49 AM »
UB-38BV-4: the safest of all airplanes, with a mechanic to repair in flight all the engines

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2013, 12:22:26 AM »
UB-38BV-5:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2013, 12:33:00 AM »
UB-38BV-6 push-pull:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2013, 01:31:33 AM »
UB-38MI Mistel-Burnelli-Lightning:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2013, 12:32:24 AM »
UB-38MI-2 simplified Mistel, with the component above being a simple lifting tank:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2013, 12:17:59 PM »
Even more simplified, to show better the Burnelli-Lightning lines:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2013, 07:20:51 PM »
UB-38BV-5B:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2013, 02:52:41 AM »
Inspired by Josť Fern's topic http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1715.120, here is another Burnelli Lightning:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2013, 12:26:17 PM »
Without gun, the civilian UB-38U needed no long nose:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2013, 01:31:42 PM »
The single-boom version of the Burnelli-Lightning may be asymmetric too:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2013, 10:50:24 PM »
Top secret! The UB-38XYZ was the only propeller-driven airplane that reached 1000km/h in level flight. It used either 10 V-3420 engines or 20 V-1710 engines. A Burnelli fuselage was needed for fuel, everyone may understand why...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2013, 11:15:35 PM »
This Lightning airliner is half devoted to passengers, half to engineers:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2013, 12:50:11 AM »
A half-Burnelli Lightning:

Offline Weaver

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2013, 03:55:36 AM »
Tophe, you're mad (but in a good way ;) ). :)
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2013, 01:02:43 AM »
Thanks a lot Weaver, I will tell that to my psychiatrist... ;)

And still with my son's colouring, here is the UB-38NF Night-Fighter 1936 (before radar was invented, night interceptors had to circle for very long flights with many eyes trying to discover something...)

Which one(s) should I present as final entry (ies)?

Offline raafif

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2013, 06:17:54 AM »
that last one needs the outer-cockpit noses to be the same as the center one  :)

You still haven't done one with inter-meshing prop-blades >:D

Offline Weaver

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2013, 08:59:08 AM »
As the foreplane denied the "flying wing" name on the UB-38K, we coulda/woulda/shoulda add fins for better control: UB-38L




If this one had the tail fins back on the ends of the booms it would be pretty cool and almost believable... ;)
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2013, 11:27:16 AM »
Thanks Raafif and Weaver.

that last one needs the outer-cockpit noses to be the same as the center one  :)
This one is easy to "correct" in a shoulda improvement... (I will work on other suggestions today)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2013, 12:41:17 PM »
As the foreplane denied the "flying wing" name on the UB-38K, we coulda/woulda/shoulda add fins for better control: UB-38L
If this one had the tail fins back on the ends of the booms it would be pretty cool and almost believable... ;)
So here are the famous UB-38W-1 and W-2, result of Burnelli/Weaver cooperation...:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2013, 03:05:35 PM »
You still haven't done one with inter-meshing prop-blades >:D
Now this is serious historical facts, I shoulda stop colouring madly... You are obviously referring to the secret UB-38RAA-1 (and -2 and -3), ordered by the RAAF in 1937 and cancelled in 1938 after propeller damage during ground testing:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2013, 03:49:15 PM »
Of course, 1938's engineers understood that intermeshing propellers must be driven by a single engine. But could I reveal the UB-38RAA-4 (and -5 and -6), top secret, that saved Australia from invasion? Well, maybe in 2013 we should do it, let's go:
(the UB-38RAA-6 is a twin-engined plane, with its port engine driving the push-propellers and its starboard engine driving the pull-propellers)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2013, 09:55:32 PM »
Other twin-engined projects with intermeshing propellers (not built, even if some could have been):

EDIT: the second one was not Burnelli, sorry, I have changed it!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 12:00:22 AM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2013, 07:19:05 PM »
Push-pull asymmetric Burnelli-Lightnings:


Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2013, 12:42:58 AM »
I have completed my finished entry but on the other forum Wuzak directed me to a peculiar Spitfire
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o73/namnoitca7/DSC08378.jpg
and I needed to design Burnelli-Lightnings this way too...


Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2013, 01:16:05 AM »
As the push-pull Spitfire mentionned above had tandem wings, I should add still new Burnelli-Lightnings:


Offline apophenia

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2013, 06:08:11 AM »
Especially love that last, twin-bodied model Tophe  :-*
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new land ...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2013, 12:53:16 PM »
Thanks a lot, apophenia!

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #81 on: September 10, 2013, 01:50:58 AM »
Still other ones :

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2013, 11:45:28 AM »
And related to the Bv-138: the UB-138A, B, C:


And related to the Savoia S.55, 66 and 77: the UB-38SM-1, 2, 3:

Offline finsrin

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2013, 12:37:53 PM »
aah yes,,, With high mounted engines on that novel configuration, you are onto flying boat designs  :)
Very interesting.  The plot thickens......

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #84 on: September 12, 2013, 12:14:51 PM »
Thanks finsrin for that new idea! ;)
Do you mean Burnelli lifting fuselage acting as Dornier sponsons? or supporting floats?

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #85 on: September 12, 2013, 01:12:24 PM »
The flying boats are pretty damn cool!  :)
Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline finsrin

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2013, 01:42:41 PM »
Pictured you headed toward designs like one on left.  But they both look doable as kitbashes waiting to happen. 
Like for  Something Floaty #2

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #87 on: September 13, 2013, 12:15:18 PM »
Thanks!
And as there were some Burnellis being single-boom, there could be designed such a Burnelli-sea-Lightning: UB-38DO (built under licence by Dornier, expert about sponsons):

Offline finsrin

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #88 on: September 13, 2013, 01:03:34 PM »
To build this hmmm:
> P-38 kit for engines and outer wings   1/48
> Tail boom from any number of kits
> Nose from Banshee or your pick   1/48
> Center wing from OV-10 outer wings ?   1/48
> Main body from 1/72 XB-35/49 or scratch build or ?

Other ideas..... ?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 01:27:56 PM by finsrin »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #89 on: September 13, 2013, 01:16:47 PM »
Great building project, thanks for the analysis!
But before deciding, let us consider that a Lightning flying boat shoulda be twin-hull, because this is a Lightning!:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Burnelli UB-38
« Reply #90 on: September 15, 2013, 12:20:02 PM »
Last pic today (final day for the GB - I mean Group Build, not Great Britain...), September 15th 06:10 19 am
This is the secret UB-38X-3 that made the first round-the-world flight without refueling, decades before the Rutan Voyager (though maybe on another planet): 40,000km range (24,860.16 miles) after a take-off run of 17km (10 miles)... ;)