Author Topic: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...  (Read 3031 times)

Offline LemonJello

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PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« on: June 23, 2013, 04:55:22 AM »
So between planning my retirement and searching for a new job, I was just making a list of "someday" projects that I'd like to build and I hit upon creating an updated PT boat/littorals/special warfare support ship. My basic idea comes down to two flavors: a gun version and a missile one.

For the gun version, I was looking at starting with the PT-596 kit from Italeri - I replace the twin .50s with M134 mini-guns and update the deck guns with Bushmasters/Chain guns and add in one or two Mk19/AGL-47 grenade launchers and probable a pair of 7.62 machine guns in the M-240 family - all with updated optics and gun shields for max protection of the gunners.  This would be the specops support version providing close-in shore support with direct fires or to cover extraction of personnel.

The missile armed boat would start with the PT-109, also from Italeri - the torpedo tubes could be repurposed and relocated aft into a pair of dual ASM launchers (Harpoon, Tomahawk, etc) the foredeck would have an enclosed turret armed with either a single 30mm Bushmaster, a pair of said 30mms or perhaps even a GAU-8? Another option would be a single 105mm cannon or similar in the forward turret.  Updated sensors/comms/datalinks to allow for carriage of Hellfire/Brimstone or similar that could be targeted by drone/helos?  Probably add a M134 in place of one set of .50s and a single .50 in the other station for close defense.  Primary mission of this version would be inter-island interdiction of pirates/smugglers or in swarming attacks against lone warships/transports/auxiliaries.

The Vosper and Schnellboot kits would offer similar starting points as well.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 11:14:14 AM »
Instead of a 30mm Bushmaster, use an Oerlikon 30mm KCA cannon (as used by the JaktViggen) since it uses the same ammo as the GAU-8.

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2013, 02:24:08 PM »
Instead of the 105mm, how about an AMOS twin 120mm mortar turret?
The crazy Swedes put one on a CB90!



Instead of a 30mm Bushmaster, use an Oerlikon 30mm KCA cannon (as used by the JaktViggen) since it uses the same ammo as the GAU-8.


The 30mm Bushmaster II is also chambered for the same 30x173mm round the GAU-8 and Oerlikon KCA use.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 08:15:18 AM »
The 30mm Bushmaster II is also chambered for the same 30x173mm round the GAU-8 and Oerlikon KCA use.

Ah, didn't know that, but it does make sense.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 06:37:37 AM »
Feel free to build this idea:  S-boot hull as a "carrier" for Porco Rosso's Savoia.   Angled up catapult, aircraft approx 2/3 of the way back, crane to lift the aircraft aboard after landing.   Yup...the S-boot and S.21 kits reside inside Ye Olde Stash.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline jcf

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 07:07:38 AM »
The Lürssen built yacht Oheka II was the predecessor of their S-Boot series, the following from
Die Yacht, 1927, suggests ways to make Porco's vessel look less militaristic.
 ;)





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Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 09:32:40 AM »
Feel free to build this idea:  S-boot hull as a "carrier" for Porco Rosso's Savoia.   Angled up catapult, aircraft approx 2/3 of the way back, crane to lift the aircraft aboard after landing.   Yup...the S-boot and S.21 kits reside inside Ye Olde Stash.

Huh, I was thinking a while ago of using an S boat and the Ar-196 as a seaplane carrier combo.

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Offline Story

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 08:56:15 PM »
Feel free to build this idea:  S-boot hull as a "carrier" for Porco Rosso's Savoia.   Angled up catapult, aircraft approx 2/3 of the way back, crane to lift the aircraft aboard after landing.   Yup...the S-boot and S.21 kits reside inside Ye Olde Stash.


Huh, I was thinking a while ago of using an S boat and the Ar-196 as a seaplane carrier combo.

Alvis 3.1


What about a Flettner?

This was actually trialed on the Drache, a former Yugoslavian seaplane tender.

Oops.

On sale - $28
https://www.hobbylinc.com/rs-flettner-fi282-b2-german-wwii-helicopter-plastic-model-helicopter-kit-1:72-scale-92184

Kriegsmarine messed around with tiny autogyros for U-boats, seems like a logical extrapolation to fit a fantail landing deck to an R- or S- or E- boat. See http://uboat.net/technical/bachstelze.htm
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 09:17:30 PM by Story »

Offline Story

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 09:14:12 PM »
Feel free to build this idea:  S-boot hull as a "carrier" for Porco Rosso's Savoia.   Angled up catapult, aircraft approx 2/3 of the way back, crane to lift the aircraft aboard after landing.   Yup...the S-boot and S.21 kits reside inside Ye Olde Stash.

The S21 is about 7.5m long. Since the engines for those types of boats are mid-hull more or less, no reason the fantail couldn't be cut-down to facilitate winching on/off. The precedence exists, just can't find an image to illustrate it at the moment.

Offline Artoor_K

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 05:19:09 AM »
VS.5 semi-submersible shnellboot :) Yes, it's real :)
v3 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr
v1 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr
v2 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr
engelmann-vs-5-rear by Arti Kapi, on Flickr
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Ignite the fire within you

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 01:01:52 AM »
Cool.  Any more details?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Artoor_K

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Re: PT Boats - Elco, Vosper, Schnellboot etc...
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 07:22:20 PM »
Cool.  Any more details?

I'll try to translate from polish book...

In 1939, just before II World War beggining, dentist from Berlin - Engelmann designed a revolutionary vessel for IIIrd Reich. As he described, it should achieve speed of 50 knots. In 1940 project bureau of shipyard in Brema received full documentation with order to build a prototype. Year after that semi-submersible torpedo shnellboot VS 5 was ready to tests.
Lenght was 40,8 m, width 2,8 m, height 5,50 m. It has four engines with 8040 hp (together) two small cannons and two torpedo launchers. It has a crew of 17 and displacement of 256 tons. As seen on drawings and photos , only superstructure was on the surface. Whole hull was under water.

In october 1941 tests began on Gdansk's Gulf. Just before it there was a strike of Trade Union of Seamen. Incredible monstrous Engelmann's shnellboot was unstable even being moored. There was a possibility that when bigger waves will occure, shnellboot will bank and sink with whole crew. Nothing strange, height was unproportional to witdth. Engelmann tried to ensure crew that additional balast with 12,5 ton weight will help, well, without any result. Finally, when shipyard put a 100 000 german marks on table as a insurance for life of crew , VS 5 was allowed to test. Reality proved union's fears to be legit. Even without armanent and at half speed shnellboot behave like a faded, banks were more than 13 degrees. Moreover, just like in aviation, banked airplane begins to turn, banked VS 5 started to turn too. There was no chance of controlling such a ship on tests, just try to imagine torpedo attack or combat of VS 5.

There is no information how VS 5 ended. As a scrap or sunk while being tested? There os no documentation about it.
Sickening, weakening
Don't let another somber pariah consume your soul
You need strengthening, toughening
It takes a bit of dark to rekindle the fire burning in you
Ignite the fire within you