Author Topic: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)  (Read 20067 times)

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2014, 07:13:21 AM »
Here's an SPPU-22 on a Su-22 at the Luftwaffenmuseum in Berlin-Gatow. Note that the pod is pointing aft. At first I thought that to be a mistake, but then I was informed that it was actually possible to mount and operate it that way. Apparently it is possible to designate a certain point to be attacked using the aircraft's HUD. The pod will then calculate the shells' trajectories and adjust the barrels automatically to keep the shells on the desired point of impact. This also works with the pod pointed aft, firing the guns after passing the target. I think there were some limits, though, such as keeping the wings level and maintaining a certain speed.

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2014, 10:15:45 AM »
The problem with those depressible gun pods was that the aircraft had to fly a pretty predictable course to make them work, which of course meant it was fairly easy meat for any defensive fire.  I understand it was more of a gimmick than anything and that the pilots preferred to lock them and fly their own attacks.

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2014, 05:20:05 AM »
Something that gets revisited every once in a while: the trainable gunpod:



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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2014, 09:46:59 AM »
I could see some use for that in A-to-A gunnery, if slaved to the radar and gun sight.  It'd give you a slight edge in a turning dogfight, being able to shoot that little bit more into the turn.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2014, 08:41:29 PM »
The 'trainable' pod came into play with my CH-151 build (Mangusta), the helicopter has quite a 'tail-down' attitude when in the hover which meant a fixed gun pod wouldn't work as it would point upwards.  Being able to elevate the guns downwards while in this hovering mode opens the door for a lot of scenarios

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2019, 03:44:48 AM »
A question about LAU-10 FFAR pods.

Are they always painted white (or maybe it's a very light grey) ?  Have they ever been seen painted a green colour ?

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2019, 02:16:06 AM »
I've never seen other than white/grey.  You could always do a field mod though...
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2019, 03:40:39 AM »
Thanks Greg, I agree with you, all the photos I can find show they're white/grey colour.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2019, 07:37:19 PM »
Here's a thought, a podded Molins Gun

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2019, 02:13:46 AM »
Here's a thought, a podded Molins Gun


Given it wasn't exactly small:




one would presumably be looking at a big pod.  Maybe a bit like these:


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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2019, 08:52:10 AM »
Did germans produce or study during WWII, an airborne gun between 20 mm and 30 mm? I mean 25 or 27.5 mm or so. Kind of an ancestor of Mauser BK-27
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 09:17:59 AM by ysi_maniac »

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2019, 11:51:31 AM »
Did germans produce or study during WWII, an airborne gun between 20 mm and 30 mm? I mean 25 or 27.5 mm or so. Kind of an ancestor of Mauser BK-27

Not that I am aware of.  However, this is whiff-world so there is nothing stopping you postulating that they did...

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2019, 10:54:28 PM »
I wonder if the Molins loader could have been designed annular, so it could wrap around the breach instead of piling it all up on top like that.

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2019, 03:16:43 AM »
Looking at the Hs129 further makes me wonder if one could do a similar arrangement on a Beaufighter.
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2019, 10:50:54 AM »
If they could - barely - make it work on the Hs 129, getting it to work on the Beau should be a piece of cake.  :smiley:
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Moritz

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2019, 02:04:20 AM »
Real World trial with twin 40mm cannon:




And one from one of our own:


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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2019, 03:11:58 AM »
I wonder if the Molins loader could have been designed annular, so it could wrap around the breach instead of piling it all up on top like that.
It's likely a lot easier. I'm pretty sure the Mollins loader was designed to fit the aircraft, i.e. the pilot, fuselage size and CofG considerations needed to put the system into an existing aircraft.

The A-10 went the other way and essentially built the aircraft around the gun.

Designing a podded gun and feed system to be an optimum pod is very likely (bound, to be, really) easier than fitting it into a pre-existing aircraft.

Paul

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2019, 01:31:38 PM »
I wonder if the Molins loader could have been designed annular, so it could wrap around the breach instead of piling it all up on top like that.
It's likely a lot easier. I'm pretty sure the Mollins loader was designed to fit the aircraft, i.e. the pilot, fuselage size and CofG considerations needed to put the system into an existing aircraft.

The A-10 went the other way and essentially built the aircraft around the gun.

Designing a podded gun and feed system to be an optimum pod is very likely (bound, to be, really) easier than fitting it into a pre-existing aircraft.

Paul

Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer.  In otherwords, they designed machines that rolled and encased cigarettes.   I am sure they could redesign their autoloader quite easily to what ever shape the customer wanted.  I personally like the German 75mm loader pictured up above on the Hs129.  Circular but not annular as such.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2019, 02:13:02 AM »
Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer.  In otherwords, they designed machines that rolled and encased cigarettes.   I am sure they could redesign their autoloader quite easily to what ever shape the customer wanted.  I personally like the German 75mm loader pictured up above on the Hs129.  Circular but not annular as such.
Pretty sure you're right about Mollins.

As to a pod ammo system, I could see a "snail" drum of ammo coiling in towards the centre of the pod with a central operating rod driven by recoil that as the gun returns to battery pushes the next round from the end of the snail and offers it into the breech before being fired, ejecting the casing under recoil and then cycling the ammo feed system again. Could be relatively simple. I think? The German system rotates the ammo drum, but a fixed ammo snail would be simpler and allow more rounds. Might need something like a MG belt link or spacers in the snail rails, mind, to keep the rounds aligned in the snail.

Paul

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2019, 08:17:32 AM »
Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer...

Molins still exists: https://www.molins.com/en/about-us/our-history

Oddly, no mention of the Molins Class M gun in their history section.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2019, 09:52:55 AM »
Mollins were, IIRC a cigarette machine manufacturer.  In otherwords, they designed machines that rolled and encased cigarettes.   I am sure they could redesign their autoloader quite easily to what ever shape the customer wanted.  I personally like the German 75mm loader pictured up above on the Hs129.  Circular but not annular as such.
Pretty sure you're right about Mollins.

As to a pod ammo system, I could see a "snail" drum of ammo coiling in towards the centre of the pod with a central operating rod driven by recoil that as the gun returns to battery pushes the next round from the end of the snail and offers it into the breech before being fired, ejecting the casing under recoil and then cycling the ammo feed system again. Could be relatively simple. I think? The German system rotates the ammo drum, but a fixed ammo snail would be simpler and allow more rounds. Might need something like a MG belt link or spacers in the snail rails, mind, to keep the rounds aligned in the snail.
In the extreme, perhaps something like the snail magazines used, IIRC, by Calico in the US on some carbines.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2019, 11:13:51 PM »
In the extreme, perhaps something like the snail magazines used, IIRC, by Calico in the US on some carbines.

Whoa! had to go look at that Evan  :smiley:  Do you think that system could have worked with a big shell then ?  Certainly is along the lines of what I was thinking off.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2019, 02:53:24 AM »
The General Electric GAU-13 30mm Gatling Gun/Cannon pod utilized a helical ammunition magazine that wrapped around the Gatling gun within the pod. 
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2019, 04:04:42 AM »
Thanks Jeff, and IIRC the gun pod for the F-35 also has some sort of spiral magazine.

But what about the SUU-23, it's supposed to be able to have 1200 rounds, what sort of magazine does that have.

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Re: Aircraft Weapons Systems (Gun Pods, Rockets, etc.)
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2019, 04:15:16 AM »
But what about the SUU-23, it's supposed to be able to have 1200 rounds, what sort of magazine does that have.





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