Author Topic: Trains of all sorts ...  (Read 10458 times)

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2017, 06:16:14 AM »
this must be the first example of a missile fired from a train?,now being considered again i believe?




cheers Don


So is this German, or a Soviet adoption/concept of deploying a V-2?

M.A.D

Offline jcf

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2020, 06:50:57 AM »
I'll merge the Armoured Train thread into this one later.

ATSF experimental concept from the late '60s - early '70s, the coaxial train.
Deck only 24" above the top of the rail, individually powered 16" modular wheel
assemblies on 4' centres. I'll post the rest of the details later.



“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline apophenia

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2020, 09:11:31 AM »
Low-profile and all-powered wheels - very cool  :smiley:
"... blac to gebeddan; bleda gedreosaþ, wynna gewitaþ, wera geswicaþ"

Offline jcf

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2020, 09:39:55 AM »
The full text of the article after OCR and cleanup:

"Eighteenth century mine waggons slowly evolved into 1970's freight cars.
Like dinosaurs, these cars have become too big, too heavy and too clumsy.
But are such units the only practical way to move freight along a railroad?
Santa Fe researchers pondered this. The result of their pondering and
experimentation is a 12-flanged-wheel centipede known as the 'coaxial train',
which now exists as a 1/8-scale model in the R&D laboratory at Topeka, Kan.
It is predicated on the realization that U.S. railroads will be forced to make do
with conventional - if improved - track, and on presently existing routes.

Says Railway Age: 'The Santa Fe design had to provide:
-A lowered center of gravity,
-Minimum wind resistance,
-An alternative to standard, rigid axles, to cut down on rail and wheelwear
 on curves,
-Improved weight distribution,
-Modular construction, to permit maintenance to make quick repairs/parts
 replacements,
-A smoother ride, through elimination of slack action,
-Power distribution evenly throughout the train, for smooth acceleration,
-A redesigned braking system.'


The coaxial train would have a diesel powered electric generator car at the head
end, whose power would be distributed to small motors on each individual wheel
in the train. The design does not incorporate such traditional devices as brake shoes,
couplers, draft gear, slack adjusters or (in the normal sense) truck side frames and
bolsters.

Coaxial trains would be built to predetermined lengths. Each train would have one
continuous center sill, which would flex around curves and still have ample strength
to support very heavy loads. Santa Fe points out that the feasibilityof the laterally-flexible
center sill has been proved in operation of welded-rail trains, in which 1440-foot rail
strings bend around curves and create no derailment problems.

The main deck of the coaxial train would be just 24 inches above top of rail.
The designers have packed a lot of hardware into that two-foot space. First, there
are the modular wheel assemblies, using wheel approximately 16 inches in diameter.
Assemblies are spaced about four feet apart. A wheel deck, fastened to the flexible
center beam, is provided for each opposing pair of wheels. No axles are used and
each wheel has its own knee-action, enabling it to stay right with the rail, no matter
how rough or curving the track. Between the wheel deck and the main deck are plastic
cushioning tubes which run longitudinally on each side of the train. These tough,
liquid-filled tubes would effectively distribute any bump on one side to all other wheels
on that side. Above the wheel decks is the main deck. This can be varied in length, but
in a prototype, it would probably be designed to handle a 40-foot container. Support
between the wheel decks and the main deck is "provided by rollers, spaced four to
each wheel deck. The main deck is fastened to the flexible center beam at only two
points, approximately one-fourth of the deck length in from each end. This two point
fastening and the angling of the support rollers toward the two points would permit the
deck to 'float' around curves.

Top speed? ATSF says 'over 100 mph.' And braking 'would be fully dynamic, with
uniform brake application, through either electrical or hydraulic systems.' Although this
Santa Re idea is supposed to be primarily concerned with container traffic, a similiar
concept might be able to carry enormous loads of bulk traffic at high speeds and still
be easy on equipment, track and costs."


Cheers  :thumbsup:
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2020, 06:44:52 AM »
Thanks for the OCR/cleanup, Jon  :smiley:

One review of the coaxial train concept said that it failed in its economics. I'm guessing that this economic assessment didn't take into account potential savings based on reduced rail/bed wear (better weight distribution, more uniform braking, etc.) or happier customers (lower decks = potentially quicker load handling, smoother ride = less cargo jostling/damage, high speed = faster delivery, etc.).

As the article says: "high speeds and still ... easy on equipment, track and costs."

No mention of regenerative braking, I note, but I bet that would have come later  :smiley:
"... blac to gebeddan; bleda gedreosaþ, wynna gewitaþ, wera geswicaþ"

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2020, 01:37:45 PM »
I like your thinking.  Maybe have good Air defence systems on board...maybe something like the Pantsir-S1 (see below) on one "module" or even a VLS SAM system?



Love this, really!!!


Yes, I think the Pantsir would be an ideal duel-purpose weapons system for an combat train - effective in both air defence and suppression of ground assault!!

M.A.D

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2020, 04:10:26 AM »
Something to deal with those pesky armoured trains:  Soviet ZhDT-3 rail torpedo:



https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2017/03/02/soviet-zhdt-3-rail-torpedo/
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2020, 10:05:12 AM »
Just a bit of mixed whiffery, here - the Southern Pacific Railroad had a number of cab-forward 4-8-8-2 articulated steam locomotive for going through their long tunnels and snow sheds without impairing the crew.  These engines had flat or, on later ones, slightly rounded fronts.  The Pennsylvania Railroad learned from an accident involving a box-cab P-5a electric locomotive that this is not a good thing; the accident lead to a re-design, "Modified P-5a", that greatly influenced the design of the GG-1 locomotives.  My thought is what if the SP worked with the builder of these "AC series" articulated locomotives to add a streamlined front end that added some "crush depth"?  I could see the builder, Baldwin, using the contours of their diesel-electric locomotives, especially their distinctive "shark nose" ones, to accomplish this.

I could see the result in two color schemes, one the standard steam locomotive scheme for the SP, the other the color scheme used for their Coast Daylight passenger trains between San Francisco and LA.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2020, 11:06:59 PM »
If one should happen to have a spare set of jet engine nacelles from a B-36, you'd have to scratchbuild the modified Budd RDC, but here is

More about it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-497_Black_Beetle.  Pictures of it in action show quite the "rooster tail" of dust behind it.

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2020, 05:26:06 PM »
On the subject of trains, which I by my own admission know next to nothing about, I'm wondering if the Germans ever considered designing and manufacturing variants of their locomotives and rolling stock to suit the gauge of Russian railway network? Or would it have been feasible to have a multi-gague bogy [I think that's what the coin railway wheels 😬] arrangement... Compared to the time, effort and resources to replace Russian railway to suit German locomotives and rolling stock has always baffled me. After all it wasn't like the German's never new that they weren't going to invade Russia.....


MAD

Offline ChalkLine

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2021, 04:35:19 PM »
Here's a Balkan's War train.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Trains of all sorts ...
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2021, 02:02:03 AM »
Interesting.  Are there any more details?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.