Author Topic: Erryplanes by perttime  (Read 41661 times)

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Erryplanes by perttime
« on: April 22, 2013, 05:17:45 PM »
People have been asking me to join - so, here goes.
I started making some airplane mutations in 2012 and many have probably seen them elsewhere. The markings on the drawings may make it pretty obvious what part of the world I'm from.

Where to start? The older stuff ... I'll put in the modern(ish) jets before going back to my alternative WW2.
The first ones are mainly butchered in MS Paint, until I figured out some of the features of Inkscape  :o

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime - F-16XS
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 05:24:56 PM »
In a split Finland - with some of the new countries perhaps no larger than Holland or Belgium - aircraft for defence were built out of whatever parts could be salvaged from other countries retired equipment. In Häme, parts of Euro F-16s were used:



A little later, canards were added for smoother maneuvering:


Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime - F-18XS "Hornette"
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 05:31:27 PM »
In Satakunta, the farm boys bolted their interceptors together out of old Hornet parts.

F-18XS "Hornette" of the Air Bears display team, in "emphasized bar code camo":



Later, the Hornette was developed into the "F-18XSM Super Hornette", with canards and some stealth features:


Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime - Eurostealth
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 05:34:14 PM »
During early 2020s, some air forces around the Baltic were converting to the Eurostealth. Among them was Hemvärnet of the Åland islands.


Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 08:06:11 PM »
A little further south...
MiG-32 of the Serbian Air Force


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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 02:43:44 AM »
Looking good! :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2013, 05:48:15 AM »
Cool.....

Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2013, 01:03:29 PM »
Love the concept ... and the 'shortie' F-16 and Hornette  :)
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2013, 12:53:16 AM »
'shortie' F-16 and Hornette  :)
I like compact aircraft but also think that there might be some practicalities to solve, to make them actually work...


Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2013, 02:04:08 AM »
Back to WW2, then. My FIRST whif picture only requires fairly minor changes to history.

In 1940-1941, a few Soviet designers were working on heavy fighters. One of them was Peter Grushin with his Gr-1. It isn't quite clear to me if it ever flew. The development site in Kharkov, Ukraine, was evacuated out of the way of a German offensive and the aircraft was packed into a train. The train was destroyed in an air raid, and both aircraft and documentation were lost.

What if... the train made it to safety and the Gr-1 turned out to be good?

Certainly, some would be captured and end up in Finnish colors...



(I don't remember which drawing I used for the outline. The colors are borrowed from a Petlyakov PE-2 or PE-3 drawing.)

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2013, 02:15:47 AM »
One more today, before I get into slightly different developments...

In addition to the aircraft becoming operational, this one assumes that a small nation that was run over by the big boys in real life, stays independent.

Istrebitel Tyazholiy Pushechniy (Истребитель Тяжелый Пушечный): Heavy Cannon Fighter. Polikarpov's development had to be evacuated, and there were problems with the engine. So, when the ITP was finally flying, other high performance designs were already in service.

What if it went into production, and Latvia stayed independent and got some captured Polikarpov ITPs?



(The outline must be from a Russian site. Colors are stolen from a profile of a Latvian Gloster Gladiator.)

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 02:19:25 AM »
Damn, that GR-1 looks fast.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2013, 08:21:31 AM »
Like the GR-1 a a lot

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2013, 09:02:49 AM »
A lot of goodlooking airplanes

Offline dy031101

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2013, 10:14:14 AM »
I love Eurostealth and Hornette  ;D
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2013, 11:00:40 AM »
Last ten or so profiles are giving me wanna build in styrene overload - all are tops  :)
F-16XS-C2 looks like pilot crushing G generator.
Bar code camo is new one on me and it works  :)

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2013, 11:32:44 PM »
Damn, that GR-1 looks fast.
I don't know what sort material exists on the real thing - but the few drawings and models I've seen online make it look pretty nice.

Bar code camo is new one on me and it works  :)
It hurts my eyes enough that it is difficult to look at the airplane. So, there must be something to it  ;D

Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2013, 11:52:22 PM »
Nice work....

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2013, 02:47:31 AM »

After German forces were defeated in the Ardennes in summer 1940, things went downhill for Adolf Hitler in a hurry. By the end of 1941, Nazi Germany was no more. All was well in Europe again. Er ... Right? ... Well, not quite ... Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, "Father of Nations", "Brilliant Genius of Humanity", "Gardener of Human Happiness", Stalin, saw some opportunities in the defeat of Nazi Germany. A quick realignment of alliances followed, as it was clear that the Soviet Union was intent on continued expansion. Another war could not reasonably be avoided. With all the resources of western Europe, and some help from USA, it was thought that USSR would soon cease fighting. It turned out not to be quite that easy.

Up North, Finland - with a population of less than 4 million - had been fighting a second war of survival after a short "Interim Peace" against the mighty Soviet Union. Inevitably, some ground had been lost but that started to change in 1942. With new-old friends, the supply of war material was improved.

Valtion Lentokonetehdas (VL) was granted license to build Supermarine's Spitfire. It was already clear that the original Spifire wing was too flexible at high speeds, so VL went right from the start with a new wing design for their Griffon engined Spitfires. First into production was a short winged model with a single-stage supercharged Griffon. Just the thing for fighting off the swarms of IL-2 "agricultural machines".


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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2013, 03:43:59 AM »
 :)

I like the basic scenario too...might need to play with that one if you don't mind.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2013, 11:37:46 PM »
I like the basic scenario too...might need to play with that one if you don't mind.
It isn't totally original... If you do something with it, I'll be interested to see where you take it.
I got the idea from a Science Fiction book where there was a parallel "fake" Earth. There, German defeat in the Ardennes had simply lead to peace.

I had a need for a Northern development where Finland becomes pretty big. While I'm not totally pleased with the outcome, I'll stick with it for the time being. I'll post it now, to get it out of the way:
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

By 1946, it was clear that "The Russians" actually had to be beaten on their own ground. It took some time....

... Most Finns would have been happy to get back the ground that they had lost, although there were those who also wanted the rest of Karelia, to create a Greater Finland (Suursuomi). Going for the Urals was stuff for morale raising songs such as "Uraliin" by Teijo Joutsela ja Humppa-Veikot:
"Uraliin" by Teijo Joutsela ja Humppa-Veikot
As it turned out, all of the Soviet Union needed to be occupied to some degree, and southern Nations were not all that eager to take on the West Siberian Plain. By the end of 1952, USSR was occupied, and much of the North was held by troops consisting of recently recruited indigenous troops under Finnish command.

Once the fighting was over, the next problem was what to do with all the land and the various peoples living on it. With the progress of the war, nations further south had already been organised, or reinstated: Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Slovakia, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. The North had been under Russian rule for centuries but could not really be left that way. Russia needed to have well defined borders but the area had to be much smaller than before, to keep it manageable.

The first step in the north was a no-brainer for most: dump the Karelian areas and the Kola Peninsula into Finland's lap. The rest remained a United Nations protectorate until 1967, when talks among the peoples of the area and in the UN General Assembly resolved in the formation of the Finnish Federation, with its capital in Mikkeli, Finland. The new nation consists of the 6 States of Suomi, Karjala, Sámi, Perm, Yugra, and Mordva. In addition, the Nganasan Protectorate even further North East was assigned to the care of the Federation.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 11:39:37 PM by perttime »

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2013, 01:16:22 AM »
Soon after having put Spitfire Mk.27 into service, The Finnish Air Force and VL came to their senses. They went and redesigned the wing again, along with the landing gear. As the normal and short wings were already in production, it was the long high-altitude wing that was first produced with the new layout with landing gear that retracts in the proper direction.

In addition to a long wing, some adjustments to the two-stage Griffon superchargers were applied to increase performance at high altitudes. Other designers had tried adding a turbocharger to the system but finding a place for all the necessary tubíng and the charger itself would have necessitated a complete redesign of the fuselage too.

... Near smolensk, 1946


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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2013, 02:28:04 AM »
Sweet!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2013, 02:39:20 AM »
A little later, proper landing gear ended up on short wing Spitfires too. This one is Estonian. It served well protecting convoys in the narrow Gulf of Finland, and keeping Soviet mud-movers away from the troops on the ground.



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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2013, 02:44:29 AM »
I wonder if in this scenario Sweden would get involved?  I am currently reading this book:



One of the most common reasons given by many who joined the SS from the Scandinavian countries (including Sweden) was the Soviet invasion of Finland.  They basically saw Soviet aggression as something that needed to be countered and the Germans were the only option to do this.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2013, 03:07:25 AM »
I wonder if in this scenario Sweden would get involved? 
I have one or two things lined up that mention Sweden being involved... Maybe tomorrow. The dog WANTS to go out NOW  >:(

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 03:25:10 PM »
Now, a break in the Spitfires. I think I should adjust the color schemes on a couple of Seafires...
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

When Squadron Leader G.L.G. Richmond was preparing to test fly the first prototype of the Nuffield-Napier-Heston J5 high speed aircraft, he knew he would have a hot bird in his hands. If all went well, he would soon take the World’s Landplane and Absolute Speed Record from Fritz Wendel and the Messerschmitt Me 209, also known as Me 109R. But it was not to be... There was a war in Europe and Speed Records had ceased to be a priority by the time he got "The Racer" in the air on 12 June 1940.

Wikipedia photo:


The first flight revealed some "issues" but nothing that a little more engineering couldn't fix: the engine was overheating and elevator control was not quite right. Subsequent flights showed improvement, and the second prototype - G-AFOL - turned out even better. The power of the Napier Sabre engine made the little aircraft go fast and climb quickly, and adjustments to the control system had made the plane quite nimble and well behaved. Could this beast be turned into a fighter?

After even more engineering, the first Heston Dragon Mk 1 took to the air, with four 12.7mm machine guns, larger fuel tanks, and a cockpit canopy from a Spitfire. There was not enough space for fuel tanks in súch a compact aircraft to make it a long distance performer but it was a supreme point defence fighter, only rivaled years later by the Grumman Bearcat.

Improvements incorporated into the Heston Dragon Mk 3 included enlarged tail surfaces and ailerons, a bubble canopy, and a more powerful version of the mighty Sabre engine. This one was protecting the Stockholm area against long distance bomber raids in mid 1940s.



... For what really happened to the Napier-Heston Racer, see Wikipedia or a 1943 article on it at Flight Global archives.

Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 07:31:15 PM »
Great Spitfires......

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 10:54:34 PM »
Great Spitfires......
I had great fun with the Spitfire variations. I might still make a somewhat different one  8)
... but there's a few old ones coming soon.

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2013, 10:57:12 PM »
Having put the Dragon point defence interceptor into production, the Heston Aircraft Company started on a design for an all-rounder fighter with more range. To accomplish this, Heston's Chief designer George Cornwall started by stretching the Dragon fuselage to make room for more fuel. Two 20mm guns were fitted on top of the longer nose and two or four 12.7mm machine guns could be installed on the bottom, as on the Dragon. To carry the additional weight, Cornwall designed a larger wing, somewhat influenced by the one used on the heavier Hawker Tempest.

By the time the Basilisk was ready for service, most European countries had gone for various Spitfire marks. However, the resently liberated Norway found the new Basilisk to be ideal for their particular needs. Most Norwegian Heston Basilisks were painted in simple Coastal Camo schemes, designed to disrupt the shape of the aircraft.


Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2013, 12:11:27 AM »
Later, the Dragon was also used by Finland - in a defensive role over southern parts of the country.


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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2013, 03:40:02 AM »
Wow!!!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2013, 04:01:10 PM »
In the north, Naval action was needed initially to capture the nickel and cobalt resources of the Murmansk area, and later to prevent Soviet naval action through the Barents and Kara seas. Those operations were mainly given to to the Western nations of the area: Denmark, Finland, Norway, and Sweden. The Co-Nordic Fleet included an Air Component where Finnish Seafires had primary responsibility for fighter defence. While the first carrier ship was under construction in Sweden, VL navalised a Spitfire MK 27 batch into Seafire 27 standard. As the nations were new to carrier operations, some experiments on color schemes were carried out, including an all blue, and a black & silver one:

 

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  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2013, 04:02:09 PM »

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2013, 12:35:47 AM »
A more subdued two-color scheme was finally adopted for Finnish Seafires. The same scheme remained in use on later models - and other types.


Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2013, 12:38:49 AM »
Since early 1940, volunteer pilots from USA were flowing to Great Britain to join RAF and Fleet Air Arm in the fight against Nazism. It turned out to be a short fight and everybody was preparing to go home when it became obvious that the end of one fight had become the beginning of another one. Most felt that Stalin's policies were not much better than Hitler's - and decided to stay on.

In 1942 British and US leaders determined that they might as well make it official. American squadrons were formed and their aircraft were given United States Army Air Forces and United States Navy markings.

While US forces in the Pacific area used aircraft made in USA, units on the European side mainly kept using "local" hardware.

... Black Sea, 1946


Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2013, 10:20:55 AM »
I'm enjoying the Seafires but your avatar Heston Dragon is a stunner!  :)
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2013, 03:36:30 PM »
I'm enjoying the Seafires but your avatar Heston Dragon is a stunner!  :)
Thanks!
I was a bit worried about touching the "Napier-Heston Racer" because the real-world original is so beautiful - but it turned out better than I expected.
I have a few more developments coming on that theme but - staying with the alternative history chronology - there's a Supermarine prototype next...



Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2013, 03:38:39 PM »
Having seen the Ambrosini, Kyushu, Henschel, Curtiss-Wright, and Miles experiments with fighter aircraft in the "pusher canard" configuration, Supermarine decided to build one of their own. There were challenges - but the configuration had its advantages too. A tricycle landing gear was needed and, for emergencies, Supermarine discarded the American idea of jettisoning the propeller to keep the pilot alive on bailing out, and went for Martin-Baker's new explosive-powered ejection system.

Jeffrey Quill first flew Type 402 in September 1947. The aircraft performed as expected. By then, however, the new German turbine engines were well on their way and were clearly the engines of choice for future fighters.

Stripped of engine, guns and instruments, Type 402 ended its days as a target at a gunnery range in Essex, UK.


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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2013, 05:45:59 PM »
Mmmm...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2013, 06:23:56 AM »
Oh, your Type 402 will have the Spitfire purists pulling their hair out! Keep up the good work  ;D
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2013, 04:10:07 PM »
When I posted Type 402 elsewhere, it was noted that it should be quite possible to kitbash it in plastic.
For the picture, most of it came from Seafire 47 tracings. If you want a different engine, a Tempest or Sea Fury can work. The nose could come from an early jet or a DH Hornet. Landing gear might cause some head scratching.

At the moment... I don't have more late '40s or '50s designs. So, keeping things in some sort of chronological order, we'll have a look at what happened to some war time airplanes after they were retired.

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2013, 04:14:47 PM »
Tor Odinsson left the Norwegian Air Force when they stopped flying propeller fighters. He preferred the sound and feel of piston engines. As he left, he purchased his trusty Heston Basilisk, and a few extra Napier Sabre engines just in case.

You can tell that he enjoyed his airplane but by mid 1980s he started feeling that it could be even better. Being a firm believer in lots of cubic centimeters, he started looking for a bigger engine but nothing seemed quite suitable. One day it occurred to him that there was quite a lot of space between the engine and his legs. It wasn't empty space but a few quick measurements confirmed that there was - barely - enough to bolt a second crank case onto the engine.

A period of furious wrenching ensued, interspersed by shopping for new propellers and other parts. The space that the second crank case filled had previously mainly been occupied by the main fuel tank. The reduced range did not bother Tor much. This wasn't, after all, his long range travelling vehicle. It is just perfect for his Thorsday joy rides and the occasional air race.


Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2013, 12:51:52 PM »
Why? Because the Napier Sabre just wasn't complicated enough!  ;D

On the Type 402, a Supermarine Attacker nose and canopy would keep it in the family. For landing gear, maybe a P-39 nose gear?
"Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling ...""

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2013, 05:03:01 PM »
 ???  More is better. Right?   :P
(That may be in character for Tor Odinsson, at least... )

I think Type 402 needs a tall landing gear, to keep the props from hitting the ground when landing.

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2013, 11:44:39 PM »
With the advent of jet engines, propeller fighters were gradually phased out of service. Thousands of Spitfires were recycled but many were also preserved in museums and in the hands of individuals who wanted to own and fly an aircraft powered by a big V12 engine.

To maximize the fun of the retired fighters, people started racing them. Out of the many somewhat informal races, a European air racing series was developed. European pylon race courses are mainly longer than the American ones, and include turns in both directions.

In the forested north of Europe, racing didn't become wide spread until it was realised that it is best to run the major contests during the winter. A big frozen lake is an ideal base for racing, with lots of open space for runways or, in case of a serious Mayday, opportunities to land just about anywhere.

Spitfires, and especially short wing variants, are among favorite aircraft types in the Stock Piston Warbird class.


Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2013, 11:46:20 PM »
In the Open Piston Warbird class of the European Air Racing Series, modifications to the aircraft are allowed - and needed if you take your racing seriously. A Griffon powered Spitfire is a good starting point. A low drag canopy is a standard feature in the Open class. This one also has the engine cooling systems re-located into the rear fuselage. Griffon powered Spitfires tend to be so nose-heavy that weight needs to be added to the rear anyway ... Might as well put something useful in the tail.


Offline Litvyak

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2013, 12:32:05 AM »
Suuri Suomi Uraliin asti! I wonder if Hungary might end up joining that Federation...

Love it - some great stuff here. It's also making me think of actually posting my Alternate Hungary story/ies...
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Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2013, 01:00:45 AM »
Hungary joining the Finnish Federation ?
My imagination cannot make it happen on such short notice... ;D
There's all sorts of other nations in between, and I keep thinking that Nation States should have common borders, and not too many common languages - but that is not always so.

You have stories but haven't posted any yet? ;)

Offline Litvyak

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2013, 01:22:18 AM »
Well, I've posted a bunch of my Alternate Canada and my Dominion of British Columbia stuff, but no, I haven't yet posted anything of my Alternate Hungary project. Maybe soon, though!
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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2013, 03:24:03 AM »
Hmmm...European Air Racing is a interesting scenario on its own... :)
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Offline raafif

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2013, 05:31:46 AM »
how about some schemes like on the real Bf-109 racers ?

NOT a whif -- story on Hyperscale ...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 06:44:16 AM by raafif »

Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2013, 06:51:12 AM »
Hmmm...European Air Racing is a interesting scenario on its own... :)

Indeed. And these schemes are great! What the significance of the hammer on the wing of 'Red 63"? Sponsored by the SKP perhaps?  ;D
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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2013, 06:52:50 AM »
NOT a whif -- story on Hyperscale ...

Can you post link please?
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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2013, 08:23:02 AM »
took a while to find it but ......
                 http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g624racercs_1.htm

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2013, 08:35:51 AM »
 :)
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Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2013, 03:20:29 PM »
how about some schemes like on the real Bf-109 racers ?
...
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g624racercs_1.htm
Thanks for that! It has been a while since I last read a Stenman book. The libraries here have them too.
My color schemes are often limited by what my skill and patience allow....

What the significance of the hammer on the wing of 'Red 63"? Sponsored by the SKP perhaps?  ;D
Not SKP :) In a larger version of the picture, you can see #63 has a name: "Ilmarinen". In Kalevala (a mashup of Finnish mythology), Ilmarinen is one of the main characters: a smith with some god-like features. The hammer is the hammer of Ilmarinen. His main works include the dome of the sky (well done), Sampo (which was so good everybody started fighting over it), and a Bride of Gold (who turned out hard and cold).

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2013, 04:00:48 PM »
A couple of more racers...

Inevitably, many Heston fighters were returned to their roots in civilian hands, and turned into air racers. A typical solution was to rebuild a Heston Dragon with a somewhat tweaked engine, 5 blade propeller, low cockpit canopy, and larger tailheathers from a Heston Basilisk.

This one was built into a racing configuration by a Polish team in 1980s. It was purchased by the Swedish tools, car supplies and leisure products retailer chain Biltema in 2004. It was flown by the Company's Chief Pilot Bertil Gerhardt, until he handed over racing duties to Pär Cederqvist in 2009. At the age of 67, Gerhardt had decided to retire into flying aerobatic displays in Biltema's other aircraft.



In real life:
Bertil Gerhardt died in a landing accident, flying Biltema's Spitfire Mk.XVIII in 2010 http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/late-touchdown-mystifies-spitfire-crash-investigators-356038/
Pär Cederqvist continues flying Biltema's Spitfire Mk.XVI and Cavalier Mustang, and some other interesting aircraft, together with Bertil Gerhardt's son Filip.
Pär Cederqvist & Supermarine Spitfire Jämi Fly In 2011 part 2 www.viihde.foorumi.eu

.

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2013, 04:04:46 PM »
With WW2 warbirds and especially their piston engines becoming old and hard to get, European air racers were facing problems ... or perhaps opportunities.

People didn't really want to convert more historically precious airframes into racers, and pulling apart and rebuilding an old airframe wasn't actually much easier than building a new one using existing jigs and templates, especially if you didn't plan to build it EXACTLY as originally designed.

Finding a solution to the engine problem wasn't hard either. Actually it was right there at the other end of the airport apron. Commuter airliners usually found no difficulties getting spare engines and propellers. Their turboprop engines had a plenty of power and a good power to weight ratio. They were also easy and economical to operate.

In 1989, the European Air Racing Federation made the decision to allow turboprop engines in the Open class, starting in the 1991 Race Season. The rules were adjusted to keep the old piston engined racers competitive but, since then, almost all new racers have used turbines for power.

Race 39 - "Puukko" - is a good example of the new generation of Open racers. Most of the airframe is built in modified Heston fighter jigs. The radiator "dog house" has been eliminated but the turboprop exhaust takes advantage of the radiator air exit of the original Heston design.


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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2013, 04:16:05 PM »
Wicked!  I have a kit of the Heston Racer here somewhere too.... ;)
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Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2013, 10:59:05 PM »
Back to Governmental vehicles...

With a bigger nation come bigger possibilities - and bigger problems. Finland, now Suomi the State, had been forged into unity during the war but to a large extent the other States were just awakening to not being under "Russian rule". Most people liked the new stability, combined with more freedom. Then there were those who wanted something different: groups with strong identities, and perhaps their own histories. The Ural Cossac uprising of 1981 was an extreme example, and nobody was prepared for it. The uprising spread to large areas of the Mordva and Yugra republics, and the northern parts of neighbouring Kazakhstan before it was put down. Now, there was an urgency to be more prepared anywhere in the Federation, to keep similar blood baths from happening again.

Having seen the efficiency of US Homeland Security Piper PA-48 Enforcers, in discouraging and countering insurgents in USA, the Finnish Federal Government commissioned the Government-owned defence and aerospace company Patria to search for similar solutions. They asked for an aircraft that could precisely attack trouble spots, and was economical enough to be fielded in large numbers. As a result of the studies, Patria acquired the rights for series production of the Heston line of military aircraft. For the task at hand, they designed and produced a modernized version of the Heston Basilisk, the Patria LX-115, with some modern materials and a turboprop engine. In later production runs, the LX-115 was upgraded with glass cockpit, sensors for all weather operation, missile integration and counter-measures.

In line with naming other domestically produced military vehicles, the nickname of the new COIN aircraft is a description worked into an abreviation: Lepakko, or "Bat". LEPAKKO comes from "LEntokone, PAtria, Kapinan Kukistaja": "Aircraft, PAtria, Counter-Rebellion"... and, as there are not that many ways to end a proper Finnish word, an "O" was added for good measure.


Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2013, 02:54:18 PM »
The Finnish Federation Border Guard is a military organisation with limited police authority. In addition to border control, its duties include assisting other authorities in whatever emergencies may arise. With the long borders and vast wilderness areas, the Border Guard saw a need for more aircraft to cover all the land and water that they were responsible for. Preferably, it should be something that could see well, and deal with any minor issues right there and then. When the Lepakko was selected for service with the Army, the Border Guard enquired about modifications for their particular needs. The needs were relatively easy to fulfill: another set of optoelectronic sensors, and more internal fuel which the aircraft can carry without problems while only light weapons loads are used. Initially, 60 more aircraft, with designation "Patria LX-117", were added to Patria's to-do list.

Typically, "Leppas" operate as outriders for larger Border Guard patrol aircraft like Dornier Do-228 or SAAB 340. The aircraft are networked, so that any aircraft in the patrol can see what everybody else is seeing. Border Guard "Leppas" usually carry a light mix of air-to-ground and air-to-air missiles on wing pylons, in addition to the 20 mm guns at wing roots. Additional fuel or a recce pod is sometimes carried on the center line. The aircraft retain wing stations for more stores but they are mainly considered a precaution, in case the Border Guard ever needs to integrate with war-fighting forces for large scale action.

Leppa? That's LEntokone, Patria, PArtio, or "Aircraft, Patria, Patrol". Also, a fitting (nick)name for a bat in Finnish children's books.

In 2012, this particular Patria LX-117 "Leppa" was operating from the Omsk-Severnyj Airbase in the southern part of Yugra, not far from the Kazakhstani border.




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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2013, 05:48:59 AM »
That's one sleek looking machine there, perttime!

Nice work!

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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2013, 05:51:29 AM »
Woah!   (eyes big in admiration)
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2013, 02:21:34 AM »
I'm glad you like it!
Installing a sufficiently powerful turboprop seemed like a good idea.
The color scheme on the latest one is my best effort to apply the Real-World Rajavartiolaitos colors to this design.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2013, 09:45:37 AM »
Love those sickle prop blades too  :-*
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Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2013, 01:42:43 PM »
The props are my approximation based on some ATR-72 commuter airliner photos.

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime - Heston Adder prototype
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2013, 11:05:23 PM »
(note: this post is a duplicate of my Beyond '46 GB post)

On 12 May 1944, the British Air Ministry requested proposals for single seat fighters, powered with a single Rolls-Royce Derwent turbojet. To save time, Heston Aircraft's chief designer George Cornwall based his new design on the successful Basilisk piston-engined fighter (itself developed from the Heston Dragon interceptor).

The piston engine was removed and the jet engine mounted underneath the forward fuselage so that its exhaust exited underneath the middle of the fuselage. The aircraft's nose was recontoured to allow for the engine placement, the armament of four 20 mm guns, and an additional fuel tank. In the tail, the ducting for the radiator of the piston-engined Heston fighters was removed, allowing a slimmer tail cross section. No changes were made to the wings other than the elimination of the air intakes, and reshaping of the front spar to clear the engine. The vertical stabilizer was redesigned to keep its bottom end out of the blast of the engine, and its top part was correspondingly enlarged. To protect the fuselage, a steel heatshield was added to its bottom.

Taxi tests began in November 1944, but the heatshield proved to be too short and the heat from the engine exhaust scorched the surface of the rear fuselage as well as the rubber tire of the tailwheel. Modifications to rectify the problems took until January 1945. The first prototype was ready for flight testing on 11 February, followed by a second one in April.

The tests revealed a number of problems: the engine exhaust damaged the surface of the airfield, the cockpit sometimes filled with smoke from oil that had dripped onto the engine, and the aircraft was short-ranged. However, the aircraft now named "Adder" proved to be easy to fly, and with a top speed of 848 km/h - or 527 mph - it was significantly faster than any propeller driven aircraft. The reshaped nose of the "Adder" also gave the pilot an improved view forward, compared with single-engined propeller fighters.

In July 1945, the Air Ministry ordered 150 Heston Type 9 "Adder" Mk. I fighters which were to be used both operationally and for converting pilots to flying jet aircraft. Only 36 production aircraft were completed to Mk.1 standard, the subsequent ones being upgraded to Mk. II.


Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime - Heston Adder Mk.II
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2013, 02:27:35 PM »
Another part for Beyond '46...

Before Adder Mk.I became operational, it was decided that something should - and could - be done about its shortcomings. Heatshielded fuselage bottom and an all-metal tailwheel were adequate to keep the fighter from scorching itself when running the engine on the ground. That only left the problem of setting fire to grass airstrips and melting the tarmac ones. A tricycle landing gear was the obvious solution, and Heston engineers quickly designed a retractable nosewheel, and mainwheels with an altered geometry that put them behind the aircraft's center of gravity. These changes were first tested on the second Adder prototype - and then rushed into production aircraft that were not yet too far finished on the production line. An additional benefit was improved forward visibility during taxiing.

The range of the Adder was adequate for training and point defence purposes but more would have been better for allround fighter performance. The use of tip tanks had already been demonstrated by the US P-80 fighter, and others, and it was decided to make them available on Adder Mk.II. However, it was felt that in many circumstances the additional weight of the tanks would decrease aircraft performance. The solution was to deliver them with both conventional and tank wing tips. Tips tanks could then be fitted - or removed - in operational units, as needed.

Denmark had been looking for a fighter aircraft to replace their Spitfire Mk.IX fighters that were becoming outdated by 1945. In discussions with the British Air Ministry in September 1946, it was discovered that the RAF was willing to let go part of their Adder fighters and focus on the Gloster Meteor. The Royal Danish Air Force received the news with enthusiasm and sent over instructor pilots for conversion to the type. The first eight of 60 Danish Heston Adder Mk.II aircraft landed at Kastrup airport on 21 February 1947, and a conversion course for operational pilots from Eskadrille 725 was started the next day. Danish Adders protected the small country and its surrounding sea areas until 1952 when they were replaced with SAAB 29 aircraft. In that time, they were used to shoot down 164 Soviet aircraft, for the loss of 18 Adders.


Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2013, 10:09:11 AM »
Love your Adder! The Danish example looks especially nice (and it's amazing how much the tip tanks change its appearance).  :)
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Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2013, 01:52:53 PM »
I think I'll do one more Adder... My eye seems to prefer the taildragger version and there's still some small rarely mentioned European countries on my list....  8)

Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2013, 08:14:43 AM »
Agreed on Adder aesthetics. The guys who repaired the tarmac asphalt might have a different viewpoint  ;)
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Offline raafif

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2013, 09:39:59 AM »
tricycle-gear one for the FAA ?? :P

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2013, 02:59:07 PM »
Agreed on Adder aesthetics. The guys who repaired the tarmac asphalt might have a different viewpoint  ;)
.... or the guys who had to put out the fires on grass strips...

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2013, 07:25:07 PM »
When Lithuania was liberated from six years of Soviet occupation in 1946, most of its Air Force pilots had been serving in Western, mainly British and French, forces. An own Air Force was seen as a necessity for the liberated nation, from both the practical point of view and for building national spirit. For some time Lithuania coped with older fighter models like Spitfire Mk.V and  Avia B.135.

Technology had developed rapidly and the older aircraft did not have the speed and firepower of only a few years later models. The latest fighter aircraft were not easy to get in a time of war, though, and funds were short. In 1948, British Air Ministry informed their Lithuanian counterparts that they would be willing to donate a number of Heston Adder Mk.I jet fighters. With the taildragger landing gear, the Mk.I was hard on airfields but the Lithuanians decided that they would cope.

28 Adders were flown to Kaunas airfield between 17 and 29 October 1948, and Lithuanian fighter pilots and mechanics were soon converted to operating jet fighters. In addition, 15 sets of wing tip tanks were acquired to extend the range of at least some of the aircraft. Inspired by the Norwegian "coastal camo", Lithuania's Air Force decided to paint their aircraft in a two-tone shape-disrupting camouflage scheme.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 07:31:35 PM by perttime »

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2013, 06:22:43 PM »
Another one (two actually) for the Beyond '46 GB:

Even in late 1940s, Heston Adder was not quite up to the speeds of the latest jet fighters like Gloster Meteor, MiG-9, and Yak-23. It was quite capable of intercepting any bomber, though, and there was absolutely nothing wrong with the concentrated firepower of its 4 20 mm Hispano guns. As Soviet night bombing raids of Western cities had become a concern, RAF rotated most of their remaining Adders through a conversion to Mk. III nigh fighters. The conversion mainly consisted of installing a Telefunken radar system and painting the aircraft black. The "color" scheme prompted a new - first unofficial - name for the night fighter: the "Blackadder".

« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:02:21 AM by perttime »

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #76 on: June 23, 2013, 06:23:10 PM »
As Armstrong Whitworth got up to speed producing the night fighter version of the Meteor in 1950, RAF's Blackadders were offered to allies who did not yet have radar equipped night fighters. 18 of them went to Ireland where the Air Corps mainly stationed them at the Casement Aerodrome (Aeradróm Mhic Easmainn), not too far from Dublin. The Casement Aerodrome had, and has, generally more favorable weather conditions than Dublin Airport, allowing better availability of interceptors.


Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #77 on: June 24, 2013, 11:22:10 AM »
Blackadder ... heh, heh  :)  Easy to imagine those night fightes upgrades later with wingtip radar pods.
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Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #78 on: June 24, 2013, 02:10:58 PM »
Easy to imagine those night fighters upgrades later with wingtip radar pods.
Now it has the German late WW2 style "TV antennas" for radar

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime - Macchi M.39T
« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2013, 12:57:58 AM »
Macchi M.39T: Gordon Bennett Trophy racer, 1926
Posting my The Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda GB entry here too.



The Gordon Bennett Trophy could have been running through the 1920s and '30s, with rules paralleling the Schneider Trophy rules - but for landplanes. Italy should certainly have participated, and let Mario Castoldi base the landplane racers on his Schneider Trophy designs. For 1926, the Italian Gordon Bennett Trophy entry would have been Macchi M.39T.
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Macchi M.39T (T for Terra) was a single-seat landplane of mixed metal and wooden construction. The wooden wings were wire-braced, with two thirds of the upper surfaces used as low drag surface radiators. The pilot sat in an open cockpit parallel with the trailing edge of the wing. The cockpit's windscreen and "turtledeck" were somewhat raised for better visibility, compared with the seaplane version. Being lower weight than the seaplane, the M.39T was given a shorter wing span.

Macchi built two types of M.39T: two trainer aircraft and three racers. The trainer version had a 447-kilowatt (600-horsepower) Fiat AS.2 liquid-cooled V12 engine, while the racing version had a 597-kilowatt (800-horsepower) Fiat A.S.2.

On 17 October 1926, the three M.39T racers took part in the 1926 Gordon Bennett Trophy contest at RAE Farnborough, Hampshire, England. Major de Bernardi, took first place with an average speed of 426.7 kilometres per hour (265.1 mph), setting a new world speed record. Three days later, on 20 October 1926, de Bernardi achieved a new world speed record of 442.6 kilometres per hour (275.0 mph) over a 3 kilometres (1.9 mi) course at Farnborough.

A larger version of the picture can be found at DeviantArt: http://perttime.deviantart.com/art/Macchi-M39T-side-views-400392307?ga_submit_new=10%253A1379247143
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 10:23:01 PM by perttime »

Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2013, 07:09:53 PM »
Great work on that Macchi!

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2013, 11:03:13 PM »
Thanks!
I believe the idea is good. If I come up with some further developments, I will try to do better in the areas that I'm not quite happy with...

Offline apophenia

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2013, 07:00:16 AM »
I like it! Great concept  :)
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #83 on: September 21, 2013, 11:48:13 PM »
Dear perttime, I thought I had seen all your airplanes elsewhere, but I have checked your collection here and discovered many marvels, thanks! Wow :-* :-*
PS. What is the meaning of "erryplanes"? I know the erythromycin antibiotic but that seems different ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2013, 12:40:37 AM »
My favourite may be your Spitfire R, that I remember was a derivative of the 3-engined Twin-Spitfire R (December 1945 design)...

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2013, 01:23:34 AM »
"Erryplane" is just a twisted way to spell "aeroplane", as far as I know. It looks a little childish to me. I'm not sure if it would be a natural way to spell "aeroplane" in some English dialect.

The Twin-Spitfire R looks like it has enough engines  :icon_surprised: I'm not sure if it has enough propellers to absorb all the power, though ;D
Getting it balanced must have been a challenge. What if the starboard fuselage were shorter, instead of longer, and the third engine mounted right above the wing?   :-\

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #86 on: September 22, 2013, 01:50:49 AM »
Thanks for the erryplane explanation!
Thanks also for correcting the Twin-Spitfire R design, but I fear my skills in Photoshoping (with my old Corel PhotoPaint6) are not high enough to succed, for the exhaust pipes transition to red instead of white. I may try though, I will see.
Thanks again! :D

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #87 on: September 22, 2013, 11:22:56 AM »
I fear my skills in Photoshoping (with my old Corel PhotoPaint6) are not high enough to succed, for the exhaust pipes transition to red instead of white. I may try though,

You see what I mean?:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2013, 11:35:04 AM »
The Twin-Spitfire R looks like it has enough engines  :icon_surprised: I'm not sure if it has enough propellers to absorb all the power, though ;D
You were right, this seems "better"... ;D

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #89 on: September 22, 2013, 03:53:17 PM »
That should be enough propellers too ;D
Now it probably needs new landing gear, too, but that can be handled...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #90 on: September 22, 2013, 11:52:44 PM »
Getting it balanced must have been a challenge.

Sorry, it was not wise to have 3 engines on 2 axis. Wisdom command a 4th engine, somehow!:

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2013, 12:54:59 AM »
Getting it balanced must have been a challenge.

Sorry, it was not wise to have 3 engines on 2 axis. Wisdom command a 4th engine, somehow!:



That's 25 blades.  :o. I don't think I have many spare blades in the stash.
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #92 on: September 23, 2013, 01:01:16 AM »
Love the Macchi M.39T.  ANy chnace of seeing a Macchi M.72T?  Though I suspect you'll have fun putting in radiator surface lost by removing the floats.

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #93 on: September 23, 2013, 01:24:08 AM »
That's 25 blades.
I count 28...
ANy chnace of seeing a Macchi M.72T?
Sorry, I'm not planning to do a Macchi M.72T. Its long straight nose doesn't really appeal to me. I suspect it would have to have conventional radiators too (or cover the whole thing with surface radiators  :o )

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2013, 01:32:34 AM »
That's 25 blades.
I count 28...
ANy chnace of seeing a Macchi M.72T?
Sorry, I'm not planning to do a Macchi M.72T. Its long straight nose doesn't really appeal to me. I suspect it would have to have conventional radiators too (or cover the whole thing with surface radiators  :o )

4x4 = 16
3x3 = 9
25?
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2013, 02:00:02 AM »
4x4 = 16
3x3 = 9
25?
7x4=28
... that is assuming that Tophe's ...er... Zwillingfire uses the same kind of props that my contraprop Spitfires and Seafires do http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2970.msg45377#msg45377

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #96 on: September 24, 2013, 12:07:22 AM »
I have no expertise of my own about blades, I just copied and pasted your marvelous pictures. Thanks again!
I prepare an answer about landing gears, I will see if I can.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #97 on: September 24, 2013, 02:32:15 AM »
Now it probably needs new landing gear, too, but that can be handled...
On 1945 December 31st was presented the Supermarine/Delanne/Blohm-Voss Tandem-Twin-Spitfire, with 4 main landing gears:

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #98 on: September 24, 2013, 02:35:11 AM »
Just the day before had been presented the Supermarine/Fauvel/Horten Twin-Spitfire-Flying-Wing:

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2013, 03:04:15 AM »
Hmmmm there's only so much space for fuel there, so it isn't a longe range airplane.
... but what I really wonder is: Where did they put all the radiators?  ;D

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #100 on: September 25, 2013, 06:40:05 PM »
The pilot had big ears acting as radiators... ;)

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2013, 10:24:48 PM »
I've been drawing 1 pixel lines over some GIFs found at http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/he112.html



(more sizes at He112-V6_lines and I have an SVG file, too)

I think I should try to think of a simple color scheme.

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #102 on: September 29, 2013, 04:09:21 AM »
How about some civilian sports schemes - assume either WWII did not occur or perhaps that the 112V6 was turned into a racer?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #103 on: September 29, 2013, 04:41:40 PM »
Civilian scheme sounds like an idea. I haven't figured out a way these could have gone into mass production as fighters either.

Either V6 didn't crash beyond repair in Spain - or Heinkel built another one just like it...

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #104 on: September 29, 2013, 05:02:34 PM »
Will there be a version with enclosed canopy? What is the date of this He-112 looking rather old-style?

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #105 on: September 29, 2013, 06:00:52 PM »
Will there be a version with enclosed canopy? What is the date of this He-112 looking rather old-style?
An enclosed canopy is a real possibility. I found one drawing where "V3" has one.

History from Wikipedia:

"The first prototype, He 112 V1, was completed on 1 September 1935. The last of the prototype A-0 series was V8, which was completed in October 1936."
"Heinkel continued building the A-0 as production line models. The naming changed, adding a production number to the end of the name, so the next six examples were known as He 112 A-01 through A-06. All of these included the 210C engine and were essentially identical to V6, with the exception of the radiator. - - - A-05 and A-06, were completed in March 1937"
(ahhh, now I see that there were others much like V6)

Then came the B series, which looks very different:
"In October 1936, the RLM changed the orders for the zero series 112s, instructing Heinkel to complete any A-0s already under construction and then switch the remaining aircraft to an updated design. This gave Heinkel a chance to improve the He 112, which they did by completely redesigning it into an almost entirely new aircraft called the He 112B. It is at this point that it became a modern design that could compete head-to-head with the Bf 109.

The He 112B had a completely redesigned and cut-down rear fuselage, a new vertical stabilizer and rudder, and a completely enclosed cockpit with a bubble-style canopy.
"

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #106 on: September 29, 2013, 06:17:30 PM »
Thanks for this part of History.
Are you going to invent the missing links? (like B without bubble-canopy or A with bubble-canopy)?
Thanks anyway.

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime: MiG-32 of the Scottish Air Force
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2013, 02:39:31 AM »


A quick one: mainly just new colors for my earlier Serbian one.

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2013, 08:30:22 AM »
Good, I have seen that you started a topic in the Scottish Independance group. We may comment there also. :)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #109 on: October 18, 2013, 12:19:26 PM »
I have checked the Web with Google, to know if this MiG-32 came from your mind only or was an advanced design to which you put simply fantasy colours. And the answer seems to be: you are the designer, congratulations! While the same code MiG-32 has already been used for a MiG-25 imaginary derivative at
http://xenonauts.wikia.com/wiki/Mig-32_Foxtrot_Interceptor
Thanks anyway!

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #110 on: October 18, 2013, 02:06:41 PM »
And the answer seems to be: you are the designer, congratulations!
I used parts from other people's designs.
I think I've explained it somewhere else, when I made the Serbian one, but not on BTS:

The top view, including panel lines, is traced from a speculative piece of PAK-FA artwork, from before Sukhoi T-50 went public. Then I adjusted it for a single engine and smaller overall size. Nose side view is traced from a speculative MiG light (or medium?) fighter drawing found at paralay.com, and stretched a bit. ... And then I connected the parts...

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2013, 04:38:05 PM »
definately could be tempted to model that, a nice lunchtime project in the office  8)

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #112 on: October 19, 2013, 02:01:24 PM »
That head-on view reminds me of certain alternate TSSAM studies for a V-tail instead of a ventral vertical surface in addition to the two horizontal surfaces.

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #113 on: November 06, 2013, 01:23:25 AM »
ANy chnace of seeing a Macchi M.72T?

Sorry, I'm not planning to do a Macchi M.72T. Its long straight nose doesn't really appeal to me. I suspect it would have to have conventional radiators too (or cover the whole thing with surface radiators  :o )
A land Macchi 72 has been built as a model: http://www.airwar1946.nl/index.htm then click on what-if models then Macchi MC-172 Lancia. Perttime, are you still not interested? (a single-engined short-nose version is possible too)

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #114 on: November 06, 2013, 02:39:20 AM »
A land Macchi 72 has been built as a model: http://www.airwar1946.nl/index.htm then click on what-if models then Macchi MC-172 Lancia. Perttime, are you still not interested? (a single-engined short-nose version is possible too)
The 72 has such straight lines. I prefer the curves of the earlier Macchis. I'm pretty sure I'll get back to the M.39 but now I have a Heinkel or two that I should develop a bit.

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #115 on: December 22, 2013, 01:02:34 AM »
Heinkel He 112 A, Schweizer Luftwaffe, 1944



In October 1933, Hermann Göring sent out a letter requesting aircraft companies to consider the design of a "high speed courier aircraft". In May 1934, this was made official and the Technisches Amt sent out a request for a single-seat "sports aircraft". The specification was first sent to the most experienced fighter designers, Heinkel, Arado, and Focke-Wulf, and later to newcomer Bayerische Flugzeugwerke.

Heinkel's He 112 was constructed entirely of metal, using a two-spar wing and a monocoque fuselage with flush-head rivets. The landing gear retracted outward from the low point of the wing's gull-bend, which resulted in a fairly wide 9 m (30 ft) track, giving the aircraft excellent ground handling. Its only features from an older era were its open cockpit and fuselage spine behind the headrest, which were included to provide excellent vision and make the biplane-trained pilots feel more comfortable.

The first prototype, He 112 V1, started in the head-to-head contest when it arrived at Travemünde on 8 February 1936. Right away, the Focke-Wulf Fw 159 and Arado Ar 80 proved to be lacking in performance, and plagued with problems, and were eliminated from serious consideration. At this point, the He 112 was the favorite over the "unknown" Bf 109, but opinions changed when the Bf 109 V2, with a new engine, arrived on 21 March. The He 112 had better turn performance due to its larger wing, but the Bf 109 was faster at all altitudes and had considerably better agility and aerobatic abilities. We know what Germany chose.

.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

In 1930 Switzerland had decided to establish an effective air force. This was the start of a massive armament programme that would consume more than a billion francs over the next ten years. In large part, the money was used to acquire modern aircraft. The Swiss had followed the German fighter contest with great interest. Seeing how eager Ernst Heinkel was to get into fighter production, they secured a favorable contract for 12 He 112A fighters and a license for producing 30 more domestically.

Within a year of entering service the 12 new aircraft were already outdated and the domestic production was canceled. Instead, Switzerland followed up by ordering Messerschmitt Bf 109, Macchi MC.202 and Morane-Saulnier D03800 fighters, and relegating the He 112A to service as an advanced trainer. An enclosed cockpit was added to some of the Swiss Heinkels.

In 1944, red and white bands were added to Swiss aircraft to stop accidental attacks by straying Allied aircraft.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 03:22:36 AM by perttime »

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #116 on: December 22, 2013, 04:16:49 AM »
Damn!  That looks great!!!  I think I have a kit of that in the stash too…just found a paint scheme for it! :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #117 on: December 22, 2013, 04:55:35 PM »
I hadn't done anything Swiss before - and then I saw pictures of red and white Bf 109s...

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #118 on: December 23, 2013, 06:40:28 PM »
As everybody who knows anything about reindeer knows, reindeer must stop for a "short break" every 10 kilometers or so. That is fine when stopping at every house for delivering presents. When you'd rather not keep stopping all the time, it is good to have some other means of transportation. S. Claus found this one while traveling in Italy in late 1920s or early 1930s. At that time, it was equipped as a floatplane. For the winters, S. Claus installs the ski landing gear that he had built in his workshop.

Macchi M.39 Santa Claus Special



I made a Macchi M.39T (landplane racer) some time ago, and was looking for other uses for the M.39. Then the obvious idea hit me a couple of days ago: put skis on it. Maybe a pilot too  ;D

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #119 on: December 23, 2013, 07:37:38 PM »
Funny, thanks! Have a merry Christmas, too...

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #120 on: December 25, 2013, 01:36:01 AM »
Thank you Tophe! I had fun making this one  :D

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #121 on: October 06, 2014, 01:53:50 AM »
It has been a while since I made any drawings - but I made this today - for the Anything But Military GB. Based on some drawings found on the interwebs:

DFS Stummel-Habicht replica



What-if somebody built a replica of the airplane that was used to train pilots for the German Me 163 rocket planes. Actually a few somebody's have in Germany - but they have gone for the "regular" version with the 13.60 m (44 ft 7 in) wing. The Stumpy Habicht that was built with 6 and 8 meter wings. This one was built with the 8 meter wing - in a garage in Tampere, Finland - and can be found occupying the towplane pilots at the Teisko airfield (EFTS) during times when the serious pilots are not satisfied with thermal activity.

A larger version can be found on Deviantart: http://perttime.deviantart.com/art/Stummel-Habicht-profile-486560122

I think I will do top and front views, when I get around to it...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #122 on: October 06, 2014, 09:36:53 AM »
I made this today - for the Anything But Military GB
Great! :-* And just in time!

I think I will do top and front views, when I get around to it...
Dear perttime, if you ever do so, please consider the addition of a Zwilling version... ;)

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #123 on: October 06, 2014, 02:11:46 PM »
Hi Tophe! The Habicht is a great looking airplane, and I've head the pleasure to see a real one (with normal wings) at local airshows.
I think I will do a modification to a future version: the skid landing gear is sort of cool, but it requires a jettisonable dolly for launching and ground handling. I've seen pictures of a real one that has a fixed wheel behind a short skid.

I'm pretty sure I will leave Zwillings to you. You are the specialist  ;D

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #124 on: October 07, 2014, 12:59:13 AM »
I'm pretty sure I will leave Zwillings to you. You are the specialist  ;D
All right, I will do it (when the top and/or front view will be available) ;)

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #125 on: October 07, 2014, 01:33:09 AM »
It might take some time. I'm slow. Today, I was thinking that I might do a Zwilling after all, just because I have not made one before. I have my pictures in a format that lets me do that kind of things easily.

Do you have any suggestions for nationality and a good registration code?

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #126 on: October 07, 2014, 01:48:42 AM »
Cool artwork, hmm, for a 'zwilling' how bout a Valtion operated example being used to test airfoil sections on the centre joining wing with black paint and wool tufts, scheme could be similar with possibly a more formal registration style, how about OH-VLT ?

Cheers, joe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #127 on: October 07, 2014, 03:17:14 AM »
I was thinking that the Zwilling might not be Finnish, but haven't decided yet.
For Finnish gliders the registration system requires numbers. I just realised that I didn't get the number quite right: a homebuilt glider or motorised glider should have 3 or 4 numbers and "X". Like: OH-1234X

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #128 on: October 07, 2014, 05:10:56 PM »
Maybe do it as Czech or Russian...after all they did have the twin-Blanik:


« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 05:12:41 PM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline tsrjoe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #129 on: October 07, 2014, 08:15:31 PM »
id forgotten the 'twin Blanik' Greg, cool, a cheap and accessible research aircraft indeed, the centre being ideal for eg. universities to play around with wing sections etc. :)

re. Finnish glider registrations, id forgotten the current examples all sport a numerical prefix as you mentioned, i'm not sure when the changeover happened (sometime in the 1960's I think as prior examples carried registrations similar to normal aircraft?)

iv just been looking at my 'big boys book of Finnish registrations (aka. The Complete Civil Aircraft registers of Finland since 1926 by Eino Ritaranta & Tuomo Makinen) it seems all post war gliders in Finland were also allocated a 'P-' number in sequential form which became the number as later seen on the gliders themselves, eg. P-1 (aka. H-1) in 1947 being allocated to a Harakka 1, with DFS. Weihe, P-133 (aka. OH-WAB becoming OH-133) through to P-852 (aka. OH-852) a Janus CT

yip a true nerd, lol, cheers, Joe  8)



Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #130 on: October 19, 2014, 01:20:31 AM »
DFS Stummel-Habicht replica - after overhaul



The DFS Habicht (German: "Hawk") was designed in 1936 by Hans Jacobs as an unlimited aerobatic sailplane, with support provided by the Deutsche-Forschungsanstalt für Segelflug. Four planes were made available for the Olympic Games of 1936, where the evolutions of the Habicht over and literally inside the Olympic stadium enthralled spectators.

Modified versions of the Habicht, dubbed the Stummel-Habicht ("Stumpy Hawk") were used to train pilots to land the Messerschmitt Me 163 rocket-powered fighter. The Me 163 was designed to use its entire load of fuel to reach combat altitude and then return to the ground as a glider. The landing speed of around 200 km/h (125 mph) posed a special challenge for pilots. Trainees therefore began on a Stummel-Habicht on which the original Habicht's 13.6-metre (44 ft 7 in) gull wings had been replaced with straight wings of 8-metre (26 ft 3 in) span, and then progressed to another version with a 6-metre (19 ft 8 in) span.

After a long research to recover the design documentation, Josef Kurz and other members of the Oldtimer Segelflugclub Wasserkuppe built an all-new Habicht. And a few more German replicas followed.

Between 2001 and 2007, another replica was built in Finland - but this one also got a pair of 8 meter Stummel-Habicht wings. During a 2012 overhaul, its landing gear was changed from a full length skid to a single wheel behind a short skid. This significantly simplified ground handling and reduced crew workload, as there was no more need to fetch the jettisoned take-off  wheels, and put the airplane back on wheels after landing.

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #131 on: December 24, 2014, 07:10:50 PM »


S. Claus preparing for take-off near Korvatunturi.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 02:28:20 AM by perttime »

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #132 on: December 25, 2014, 02:52:41 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #133 on: August 29, 2015, 10:53:22 PM »
Macchi M.49 fighter in Finnish service



Macchi M.49 was a monoplane fighter, designed and built by the Italian aircraft company Macchi Aeronautica in 1927–30. Its design was based on the Macchi M.39T racing landplane. It used the 600-horsepower version of the Fiat AS.2 engine, and a conventional radiator was used instead of the raceplane's more vulnerable surface cooling system. Armament consisted of two fixed forward-firing 7.7 mm (0.303 in) machine guns. To improve visibility, the fairing in front of the cockpit was made lower than on the racers.

The Finnish Aviation Force had acquired 20 Gourdou-Leseurre GL-21 fighters in 1923.  A domestic successor, IVL D.26 "Haukka", was in the works but it would not be put into production without a comparison to other types. In November 1926, a Gloster Gamecock was ordered from Great Britain. As news of the new Macchi landplane fighter were heard, enquiries were also sent to Italy.

Test flights were carried out from May to July 1927. The Macchi monoplane was superior to the biplane contenders in speed and climb rate, visibility from the cockpit was good, and weaponry was up to current standards. The Macchi's range was shorter than what the biplanes could offer but was deemed adequate for a defensive aircraft. Three complete aircraft and a licence to build further 15 were bought. The 15 licence built aircraft were completed at Valtion lentokonetehdas between December 1929 and May 1930.

Finnish Macchi M.49 fighters were operated by the Maalentoeskaaderi (Landplane Squadron), later No. 24 Squadron, from 1930 to early 1939 when the type was relegated to training duties. That period with No. 24 Squadron was essential for honing Finnish fighter tactics under the leadership of Richard Lorenz, Gustaf Magnusson and Kustaa Sihvo.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 02:19:39 AM by perttime »

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2015, 05:15:59 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #135 on: December 25, 2015, 03:20:28 AM »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #136 on: December 28, 2015, 03:25:22 AM »
Thanks for these beautiful greetings... :)

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #137 on: August 14, 2016, 05:07:30 AM »
Macchi M.39T OH-AAB, as flown by Finnish Air Force officer and athlete Väinö Bremer, at the Copenhagen - Lund - Helsingborg - Copenhagen Air Race in July 1928. The contest route was half over Denmark and half over Sweden. Foggy weather over Helsingborg made navigation difficult, and Bremer missed the turning point, losing enough time to leave him in third place.



Bremer had purchased the aircraft from Italy shortly after Major de Bernardi won the 1926 Gordon Bennett Trophy with an almost identical Macchi racer.

For more details on de Bernardi's Macchi, see: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2970.msg52990#msg52990

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #138 on: August 14, 2016, 12:37:29 PM »
Good profile! Is this race coming from History books or from your imagination? (both ways would be nice)...

Offline perttime

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #139 on: August 14, 2016, 04:53:09 PM »
The 1928 race came from my imagination - or at least I don't know if such a race ever existed in real life. I just decided to see if there was a suitable area near Copenhagen, and found the triangle of nearby cities, across the straits.

edit:
I forgot to mention that the Macchi color scheme is inspired by the Junkers A 50 Junior that Väinö Bremer used for his Helsinki - Cape Town - Helsinki flight, and his partial round the world flight.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 10:31:44 PM by perttime »

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #140 on: August 17, 2016, 04:03:49 AM »
The 1928 race came from my imagination - or at least I don't know if such a race ever existed in real life. I just decided to see if there was a suitable area near Copenhagen, and found the triangle of nearby cities, across the straits.

Great concept! And there's plenty more potential 1920s-1930s fodder (hint, hint)  ;)
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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #141 on: December 24, 2016, 07:21:28 PM »

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #142 on: December 24, 2019, 07:14:36 PM »

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Re: Erryplanes by perttime
« Reply #143 on: December 24, 2019, 09:36:33 PM »
 8)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."