Author Topic: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 20884 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 06, 2012, 06:37:18 PM »
Hi folks,

A thread for your Merkava tank (and variants such as the Namer and Sholef):

Merkava Mk IV:



Namer:



Sholef:



Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:20:51 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 06:47:33 PM »
To begin with, how about a South African Merkava in this sort of colour scheme?


Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:08 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 08:28:47 PM »
I did profiles of a Finnish & ARA Merkava, along with a redraw of a Namer for the USMC in four schemes.

Regards,

John
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:21 AM by GTX_Admin »
Regards,

John

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 11:28:26 PM »
I saw a lot of these when I went on my trip to Israel a few months ago.  Always loved the Merk.

Thanks,

Logan
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:31 AM by GTX_Admin »

Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2012, 01:24:27 AM »
Close Fire Support Vehicle: Sholef with a lower, thicker-armoured turret armed with the AMOS twin-barrelled 120mm mortar. Has a kind of credibility too, since most of the Israeli infantry mortars are/were based on Finnish designs.

AMOS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMOS

AAA Vehicle: Sholef with the heavy AAA turret of your choice. The OTOMATIC turret would be interesting: again, there's a link between Israel and Italy because their 60mm HV gun projects had a common origin.

OTOMATIC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomatic
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:41 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2012, 03:25:19 AM »
I like your thinking.  Now if only someone would release a kit/conversion for either of those in 1/35...



« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:51 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 03:34:21 AM »
Actually given the Merkava's heavy armour and Israel's defensive position, I am kind of surprised a Sturmgeschütz or Jagd-Merkava hasn't been looked at...


...another random idea:  What if part of the post War reparations were that Germany had to be equipped with Jewish weapons  (weak, yeah, I know Israel as a modern state able to do so was decades away in '46...but leaving facts aside for now): Bundesheer  Merkavas anyone?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:22:01 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 06:50:56 AM »
I suppose the only issue with that scenario would be that West Germany would be defenceless for quite some time as Israel didn't have indigenously designed combat aircraft or armour initially.

Regards,

John
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:22:13 AM by GTX_Admin »
Regards,

John

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2012, 07:26:18 AM »
I know - one explanation I could think of is that perhaps in the '80s West Germany gets an extremely left wing Govt that adopts an extreme apologist type stance and then starts mandating their armed forces adopt Israeli equipment.  This could result not only in Merkava tanks instead of Leopard IIs but also Lavis instead of Eurofighters etc...
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2012, 08:35:38 AM »
What if you had German and French Merk Mk.1s as part of a swap deal whereby the IAF got Alphajets to replace it's Magisters?

As I understand it, one of the obstacles to Merk exports has been the capacity of Israeli industry to build them (i.e. their domestic requirement uses most of the production capacity), so maybe the Franco-German ones would be licence-built in their countries with their own preference in sub-systems. They'd be looking to upgrade to 120mm at that point (late 1970s) so maybe they'd be the ones to lead development of the 120mm Merk with Israel piggy-backing off that with a choice of GIAT or Rheinmetall guns, SACM or MTU engines etc...

As an alternative, what about a British Merk? The Israelis only started the Merkava project after Britain pulled out of the deal whereby they were co-operating on the design of the Chieftain with the intention of ultimately buying them. What if there was a political reprochment over this at the same time as the Chieftain replacement fell through, say because the fall of the Shah of Iran, who'd placed massive orders for Shir 1s (super Chieftains as eventually supplied to Jordan as Khalids) and Shir 2s (Chally Is basically) took ROE Leeds down completely instead of just hurting it?

This version would see a deal done whereby Britain developed and produced the 120mm Merk with an R30 rifled gun (which Israel then benefitted from) for it's own use, in exchange for Hawks to replace Israel's Magisters. You might then see a Namer-like vehicle developed by Britain in the early 1980s (reportedly, the Army wanted something more like that than the Warrior they got) and a Merk hull with an AS-90 turret in place of the Sholef one used by both Britain and Israel.

The AS-90/Sholef is very doable as a model in 1/72nd scale.....
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 08:39:29 AM by Weaver »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 08:43:41 AM »
I'm liking those ideas. 


In fact, *Off Topic* I plan one day to model a Israeli Cheiftain *End Off Topic*

Regards,

Greg
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 12:28:41 PM »
Wonder whether the Israelis will dig out the Sholef again? Apparently, they have a requirement for a new SPH. Maybe mating Merkava I hulls currently in storage with the turret of the Panzerhaubitze 2000?

Here's a Merkava II hulll with the turret of a Panzerhaubitze 2000 (almost to scale):



A patternmaker for Trumpeter and Hobby Boss announced on Armorama that they intend to do more or less the complete CV90 family in 1/35, including one with the AMOS turret. Since Hobby Boss now announced a CV9040C and CV9040B, I'd reckon it'll be Hobby Boss who release the AMOS version as well.

<...> Bundesheer  Merkavas anyone?

Just Heer.  ;) Bundesheer is the Austrian Army.
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 07:59:47 AM »
I know - one explanation I could think of is that perhaps in the '80s West Germany gets an extremely left wing Govt that adopts an extreme apologist type stance and then starts mandating their armed forces adopt Israeli equipment.  This could result not only in Merkava tanks instead of Leopard IIs but also Lavis instead of Eurofighters etc...

Or maybe Merkava turrets on Leopard II hulls?
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 03:18:29 AM »
Maybe a PLA version?  Similar schemes to these maybe:


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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 05:09:14 AM »
Actually given the Merkava's heavy armour and Israel's defensive position, I am kind of surprised a Sturmgeschütz or Jagd-Merkava hasn't been looked at...


Playing with this idea a bit more, how about a Strv-103 styled Tank Destroyer based upon the Namer?  Stick a honking big gun out the front.  Alternatively, go for the Raketenjagdpanzer style approach and do an Anti-tank Namer armed with Rafael Spike missiles...
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2012, 02:45:10 PM »
Problem with both a Sturmgeschutz and/or an S-tank style hull gun on the Merkava is the location of the engine.  It precludes a low, hull mounted gun and then you lose most of the point of having one, which is a substantially lower silhouette over a normal, turreted MBT.  The best you could hope for would be rather like a Ferdinand/Elephant style Panzerjaeger - a fixed casement at the rear of the hull where the gun compartment would be.  In order to take advantage of reverse hulldown positions it would also have to be as high or even higher than a conventional turret (or have an open or "cleft" compartment).   So, its just as easy to go with a conventional turret.

Another matter is of course that such tank-destroyers/assault guns are essentially the result of a defensive mind-set.  Something the Israeli Armoured Corps could never be accused of, particularly since the 1967 war!

However, there is another option which the Israelis haven't really explored yet with the Merkava.  A modular system with easily transferred hull modules.  One as an MBT, one as a HAPC, another as an SPG, etc.   Built all on the same assembly line, you get economies of scale and so cheaper production costs.  For the army, it gets versatility.  You need more HAPCs?  Simply swap out some of your MBTs for HAPC modules.  More MBTs?  Swap out some of your HAPC modules and so on and so on.

Offline raafif

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 09:23:00 AM »
HAPC based on obsolete Merk.Mk.1.


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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 04:15:13 PM »
Now put a VLS in that and things get interesting.
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 08:12:12 PM »
Playing with this idea a bit more, how about a Strv-103 styled Tank Destroyer based upon the Namer?  Stick a honking big gun out the front.  Alternatively, go for the Raketenjagdpanzer style approach and do an Anti-tank Namer armed with Rafael Spike missiles...

What about something like the Archer 17 Pounder with the gun pointing in the opposite direction to forward motoring. Because the Merkava has the engine and driver in the front the gun would not have to be mounted above the engine but rather out the back door. So you have a very low vehicle which is ideal for ambush and rapid escape.

The Namer S-Tank would work because its hull is much higher than a Merkava providing enough clearance over the engine. But rather than a tank destroyer maybe this could be an urban demolition vehicle like the Sturmtiger. The ordnance could be the short barrel 203mm from the M115 howitzer and the early M110 SP howitzers. The 90 kg (200 lbs) HE shell could penetrate 1m of concrete fired 50 feet away or 1.5m at point blank (9 feet). But there would have to be some train and elevation for the ordnance because the Namer hull could not be pointed with the same accuracy as the S-Tank for a fixed gun.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 06:42:21 AM »
One of the concepts behind the original Merkava design was to have a turret with minimum frontal area to reduce sillouette when firing from a hull-down position. How about updating that, using modern technology, by having a tank hunter with an externally-mounted, remote controlled gun?

The Merk is ideal for this because it has that bit of extra space in the back of the hull. In the tankhunter, the commander and gunner sit right at the back of the hull, side-by-side, just inside the rear door. The turret "basket" area then consists of an armoured drum containing a T-72-style "carousel" magazine, but with four layers (2 x projectile, 2 x charge), with an auto-loader feeding rounds to an overhead gun that would look a bit like the Stryker MGS weapon. The gunner and commander's primary vision would be TV cameras, fixed and rotating respectively, on top of the gun mount, but they'd also have direct vision periscopes in the hull roof for all-round vision and emergency backup.



« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:48:37 AM by Weaver »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 07:46:36 PM »
Cool ideas guys.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 02:02:15 AM »
^^^^^
Yes, absolutely cool!

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2012, 04:29:01 AM »
US Merkavas and derivatives anyone - Namer: Israeli Leopard Coming to the USA
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2013, 03:52:49 PM »
One of the concepts behind the original Merkava design was to have a turret with minimum frontal area to reduce sillouette when firing from a hull-down position. How about updating that, using modern technology, by having a tank hunter with an externally-mounted, remote controlled gun?

The Merk is ideal for this because it has that bit of extra space in the back of the hull. In the tankhunter, the commander and gunner sit right at the back of the hull, side-by-side, just inside the rear door. The turret "basket" area then consists of an armoured drum containing a T-72-style "carousel" magazine, but with four layers (2 x projectile, 2 x charge), with an auto-loader feeding rounds to an overhead gun that would look a bit like the Stryker MGS weapon. The gunner and commander's primary vision would be TV cameras, fixed and rotating respectively, on top of the gun mount, but they'd also have direct vision periscopes in the hull roof for all-round vision and emergency backup.



Short video clip showing what may be the Merkave V on YouTube:

MERKAVA MARK 5
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2013, 08:49:12 PM »
Cheers  Jeff: I expect my royalty cheque's in the post then....... ;)
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2013, 02:21:03 AM »


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Offline Gingie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2013, 05:30:47 AM »
on that video, they show the gun having some kind of recoil buffer/recuperator action going...reminded me of SP Arty.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2013, 03:53:55 AM »
Merkava prototype with M48 turret:



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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2013, 05:48:18 PM »
Interesting.
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2013, 05:09:34 PM »
Maybe a PLA version?  Similar schemes to these maybe:





Not a bad idea! That is the PLA using the Merk as the basis for their Army modernisation. After all for a good part of a decade the Israeli's were willing to be 'French', in that they were prepared to sell anything and everything to the PRC. That was until like the French, Israel was used, abused and discarded once the PRC had squeezed all the goodness (technology and knowhow) out of them!

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2014, 02:40:21 PM »

Sholef - Merkava based self propelled gun


Namer IFV

« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:05:33 AM by Rickshaw »

Offline Gingie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2014, 07:39:40 AM »

Offline arkon

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2014, 10:35:45 AM »
anti aircraft- vls in rear "troop bay" and 30mm Vulcan :) in turret or the old standby twin 20/30mm gepard style turret :icon_sleep:.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2014, 11:19:37 AM »
Would like to see a US Namer with M-1 road wheels, idlers, sprockets and tracks, basically Namer hull and M-1 automotive components for commonality with US Army fleets.  With the extra space in the Namer the GT could be part of a hybrid electric drive including an APU and battery pack.


Offline Gingie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2014, 09:13:44 PM »
the old standby twin 20/30mm gepard style turret :icon_sleep:.


There's one on here!

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2068.0


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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2014, 03:48:01 AM »
I sure hope that Meng Models follows their latest efforts with a decent model of the Namer APC/IFV.  There is no way I am paying three figures for a resin Namer!
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2014, 04:30:16 AM »
I'd expect Hobbyboss to do one soon, they already have the Namer ARV:


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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2014, 05:13:44 AM »
I'd expect Hobbyboss to do one soon, they already have the Namer ARV:



Either one at this point would be most welcome.  :)
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2014, 09:35:43 PM »

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2014, 03:44:22 AM »
 :)

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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2015, 10:11:35 AM »
Here is a thought for some of the older Merkavas. Replace the turret with a purpose built tank support one similar to the Russian BMP-T. Either two 30 - 35 mm autocannons or a single 75 mm autocannon. Some Spike missile launchers. A Sampson remote weapon system or two. Crew of say 5 plus a 6 person dismount section. Use the LIC heavy duty side skirts and add other modular armor to the body. Possibly upgrade the engine and transmission as well.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2015, 10:31:17 AM »
A Merkava load carrier with modular interchangeable rear compartments, perhaps also including VLS Spike ER version.

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2015, 02:35:14 AM »
Here is a thought for some of the older Merkavas. Replace the turret with a purpose built tank support one similar to the Russian BMP-T. Either two 30 - 35 mm autocannons or a single 75 mm autocannon. Some Spike missile launchers. A Sampson remote weapon system or two. Crew of say 5 plus a 6 person dismount section. Use the LIC heavy duty side skirts and add other modular armor to the body. Possibly upgrade the engine and transmission as well.

I like your idea.

In the real world, there is the Merkava LIC ("Low intensity conflict"), which has mods for counter-insurgency, urban style warfare though nothing as significant as you suggest.

Personally, I would use the Namer as the basis for a Merkava BMP-T.
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2015, 08:41:20 AM »
Here is a thought for some of the older Merkavas. Replace the turret with a purpose built tank support one similar to the Russian BMP-T. Either two 30 - 35 mm autocannons or a single 75 mm autocannon. Some Spike missile launchers. A Sampson remote weapon system or two. Crew of say 5 plus a 6 person dismount section. Use the LIC heavy duty side skirts and add other modular armor to the body. Possibly upgrade the engine and transmission as well.

I like your idea.

In the real world, there is the Merkava LIC ("Low intensity conflict"), which has mods for counter-insurgency, urban style warfare though nothing as significant as you suggest.

Personally, I would use the Namer as the basis for a Merkava BMP-T.

New production Namers? I was reason I was thinking older Merks was the fact that Israel tends to keep rebuilding AFVs as needed. Take older Merk I and IIs, add items from the LIC package, cameras, etc with newer drivetrain.

If only someone made a Namer in 1/35 that wasn't well over $100. I am tempted to use the Merkava ARV for one though.

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2015, 03:01:05 AM »

If only someone made a Namer in 1/35 that wasn't well over $100. I am tempted to use the Merkava ARV for one though.


One could use the Hobby Boss Merkava ARV (which last time I looked were below $100) as a starting point:



Maybe add something such as a Master-X 1/35 RCWS 30 Turret:



or a Live Resin 1/35 Remote Controlled Weapon Station For MRAPs and M1 Abram:



to it.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 03:03:00 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2015, 07:40:09 AM »
I am looking at the Master-X kit for a turret-less Bradley.

The Live Resin kit is being considered for something.  Just not sure what yet. 

Offline Steve Blazo

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2015, 01:05:14 PM »
Another Merkava hovertank from long ago

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I have no fear, because I am the meanest mother*ucker in the whole valley.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2015, 02:53:11 AM »
^^^^^
A classic!

Offline newtonk

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2015, 03:42:01 PM »
Gents,

first time poster here, and I thought I'd bring this to your attention, a new IDF APC, as seen at http://tankandafvnews.com/.

Reading the article, there is also mention of an 8x8 vehicle with the same hull; this may be of interest to some here.

Kylie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2015, 03:49:48 PM »
Welcome to Beyond The Sprues Kylie, I recognize your name from the forums at Missing-Lynx.  Hopefully you will find us a bit more relaxed here at BTS ;)
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2015, 04:17:22 PM »
To follow up on Jeff.  Yes,,, Welcome.
Suggest you browse thru prior years 3D & 2D postings.  Lotsa cool, fun, talented stuff there.
Do that occasionally myself.  The old gray cells can't retain all the inspiration and enjoyment to be found.
Bill

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2015, 02:23:50 AM »
Gents,

first time poster here, and I thought I'd bring this to your attention, a new IDF APC, as seen at http://tankandafvnews.com/.

Reading the article, there is also mention of an 8x8 vehicle with the same hull; this may be of interest to some here.

Kylie


Welcome aboard Kylie.

Thanks for the link - I must admit that I am at a loss to understand what this new APC offers over the Namer etc.  Maybe simply cost (i.e. rebuild over new build)?
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2015, 02:32:04 AM »
Namer with RCWS30 (I believe):

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2015, 04:18:09 AM »
Namer with RCWS30 (I believe):



that vehicle's an Achzarit, Greg ... here's the Namer APC (based on Merk4).


These "new" Merk-2-based vehicles won't be used as APCs but for command & battlefield-ambulances.


I suspect the actual ambulance vehicles will get "cube" armour packages like the Nakpadons.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 05:28:39 AM by raafif »

Offline newtonk

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2015, 12:01:06 PM »
well gents, it is a pleasure to be here; and yes, I'm a missing-lynx old boy, in that I was lurking there for a long time before joining up here.

I may just go looking for those old Merkava 2 and 3 threads, and bring myself up to date with whats going on, seeing as how I've a kit of the 2 laying around doing nothing.

And I'll be sure to post anything new I find here.

Best,

Kylie

oh, that profile of a Namer with 30mm RCWS is not the same as the Hobbyboss ARV kit. The production Namer has sloped sides... I've other views of that vehicle which I will post here.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2015, 02:45:28 PM »


With Vickers MBT Mk.7 turret.
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2015, 02:20:02 AM »
Hmmm...maybe swap Turrets between Challenger II and Merkava...
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2015, 02:45:24 AM »
Hmmm...maybe swap Turrets between Challenger II and Merkava...

I've come across some interesting assertions about Merkava here.

Is Merkava's AC located in the hull or in the turret?

Also, which gun is more suitable for extended long-range operations?  L30A1 or Rheinmetall 120mm?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 02:47:22 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2015, 03:26:34 AM »
Hmmm...maybe swap Turrets between Challenger II and Merkava...

I've come across some interesting assertions about Merkava here.


Interesting site - the 60mm mortar looks like it came from a German WWII S-mine launcher
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2015, 10:26:08 AM »
Hmmm...maybe swap Turrets between Challenger II and Merkava...

I've come across some interesting assertions about Merkava here.


Interesting site - the 60mm mortar looks like it came from a German WWII S-mine launcher

The British had a 2in mortar which the Americans adopted in the roof of most of their tanks from about 1941 onwards, Greg.   It fired APers and Smoke.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2015, 07:21:17 PM »
Hmmm...maybe swap Turrets between Challenger II and Merkava...

I've come across some interesting assertions about Merkava here.

Is Merkava's AC located in the hull or in the turret?

Also, which gun is more suitable for extended long-range operations?  L30A1 or Rheinmetall 120mm?

As far as I know, the Merk's AC/NBC pack is located in the back of the hull on one side of the door. It can be taken out to make more passenger space if needed, as can the ammo rack on the other side.

The L30A1's two-part ammo, consisting of two short cylinders, shoe-horns more easily into the awkward spaces inside an MBT than the long cylinders of the Rheinmetall's one-piece ammo, so theoretically, that should mean more ammo with an L30. Challengers carry 52 rounds whereas most 120mm-armed tanks carry about 40. How that works out in practice for an individual tank design is tougher to call since no tank has had both guns fitted to allow a comparison. I know they studied fitting the smoothbore to the Chally, but I don't know what the consrquences for ammo capacity were.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2015, 07:15:17 AM »
the old standby twin 20/30mm gepard style turret :icon_sleep:.


There's one on here!

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2068.0




Never understood why Israeli Army has never adapted such an effective SPAAG system like this!!

M.A.D

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2015, 07:43:38 AM »
Probably because they never really had the need to do so.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2015, 10:11:57 AM »
Beautiful model!!!

Offline Gingie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2015, 10:35:55 PM »
Probably because they never really had the need to do so.

Quite right - though they never had the need becasue they had other systems, not because they had forgone AD altogether like some countries. OTOMH, they have or had M-163 (20mm VSHORAD + Stinger), M-727 (HAWK), Patriot, Arrow, Iron Dome...

I could totally see an ADATS turret on a Merkava. The Merk has the space in the back for the crew, and Canada and Israel have a cosy defence industrial relationship.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2015, 12:30:27 AM »
There is a local pre Christmas sale on certain Tamiya 1/35 kits, including their Merkava.  There is also an M-2 Bradley, what I am contemplating is using the Bradley turret and interior on the Merkava hull to create something like the original concept of converted Mk1 Merkavas.  There is also a Chieftain and I hope an Abrams, this could be fun.

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2015, 03:21:05 AM »
I am contemplating is using the Bradley turret and interior on the Merkava hull to create something like the original concept of converted Mk1 Merkavas. 

I like!
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2015, 09:04:54 AM »
School holidays now so a bit hard to just go out and buy them.....may need to do some sneaking on the weekend.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2016, 08:36:34 PM »
Seeing the FL-10 turret on the Marder / TAM hull made me think it would look good on a Merkava hull which made me think that maybe an IFV could have been on the cards from day one and it could have been fitted with turrets from surplus AMX13s.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2016, 12:41:26 PM »
Seeing the FL-10 turret on the Marder / TAM hull made me think it would look good on a Merkava hull which made me think that maybe an IFV could have been on the cards from day one and it could have been fitted with turrets from surplus AMX13s.

Was going to bring up issues of having to reload the two six-shot magazines from outside the vehicle, but then again, it seems to me that same thing holds true for ATGM launchers......

FL-20 might be better though- that thing looks like it has a co-axial autocannon, so it might not have to automatically resort to the main gun for anything a 7.62mm MG can't handle.

And I couldn't help to wonder (wonder, because I have an awful sense of scale) if the AMX-13 turret would have a bigger profile than remote weapon stations.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2017, 03:17:29 AM »
New Namer with turret:

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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2017, 06:49:02 AM »
That looks really nice. It would appear to be a Bushmaster cannon based on the barrel. I wounder if the cover on the left front of the turret is for Spike missiles? Of real interest to me are the six tubes on the right side of the turret face.

Now if only someone would make a reasonably priced Namer in 1/35th!

New Namer with turret:



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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2017, 03:42:41 AM »
Another view plus some details:





clockwise
1. commander's sight
2. dual missile launcher
3. trophy lucher
4. trophy radar
5. 60 mm mortar
6. guner sight
7. dual feed 400 bullet canon 30 - 40 mm
8. smoke grenades
9. parallel machine gun 7.62 mm 700 bullets
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 03:47:13 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2017, 08:51:20 AM »
When? Oh, when, will they ever bring out a (decent) styrene Namer? ??? ??? :icon_crap:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Gingie

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2017, 10:16:06 AM »
When? Oh, when, will they ever bring out a (decent) styrene Namer? ??? ??? :icon_crap:

How different is the Namer APC from the ARV variant by Hobbyboss?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2017, 11:07:21 AM »
The ARV prototypes (it never went into production) are based on the Namer prototypes, which were based on the Merkava III, the Namer production vehicles are based on the Merkava IV.

What I've read indicates that there are some differences in hull shape & size, & it uses a different engine but I don't know how visible these might be, especially compared to the late-model Merkava IIID's.
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2018, 02:20:50 AM »
Merkava prototype with M48 turret:






Side profile:

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2018, 04:54:05 AM »
^ Merkava hull with M48 turret.  How about an M48 with a Merkava turret? 

Really would like to see a 1:35th scale Namer some time soon...
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2018, 08:39:04 AM »
Really would like to see a 1:35th scale Namer some time soon...

You & me, both, Brother!
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2018, 02:47:29 PM »
^ Merkava hull with M48 turret.  How about an M48 with a Merkava turret? 

Really would like to see a 1:35th scale Namer some time soon...


Almost what you say: M60 and Merkava (same scale)


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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: February 27, 2018, 01:38:06 AM »
Really would like to see a 1:35th scale Namer some time soon...

You & me, both, Brother!

I thought Legend Productions released both a conversion and a full kit?
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2018, 04:29:30 AM »
I suppose it will happen just as soon as Greg purchases the resin kit of the Namer.  Come on Greg!  You can do it!  :)
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2018, 01:19:42 AM »
I suppose it will happen just as soon as Greg purchases the resin kit of the Namer.  Come on Greg!  You can do it!  :)

Go away!!!
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2018, 11:13:10 AM »
Almost what you say: M60 and Merkava (same scale)

Now if the Merkava hull has enough clearance around the turret ring for the Sabra II/III turret armour package or vice-versa......
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 02:08:20 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2018, 03:47:23 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Burncycle

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: July 09, 2018, 11:52:14 PM »
the old standby twin 20/30mm gepard style turret :icon_sleep:.


There's one on here!

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2068.0




YES!  :-*

I've been playing around with a what if "Merkava Multi-Mission Effects Vehicle" -- and it looks almost exactly like that (albiet with some short ranged SAM missiles as well).   

Equipped with 2x 35mm Millennium cannons with AHEAD ammunition and 4x short ranged SAM missiles, the premise is that in conventional conflict it will provide group air defense, but in low intensity conflict it serves as a C-RAM for FOB defense for anything that gets through Iron Dome.  The 3d search radar doubles as a counter-battery radar and can share predicted origin data to the artillery FDC for rapid counter-battery fire, and the engagement radar doubles as a ground surveillance radar with SAR capabilities to queue a FLIR onto an area of interest for further identification, again for FOB defense.

Other ideas I've been kicking around...

-Merkava V: Upgraded Merkava with commanders M230LF RWS  mounted on the turret, distributed aperture EO for "see through hull" type situational awareness,  select vehicles have a 5th crewman jump-seat in the "tunnel" with a couple of small unmanned aircraft that can be operated under armor (similar in size to DJI Mavic with  stabilized 4K day camera interchangable with stabilized FLIR Boson 640 for night)  30 min flight times.

-Namer 40 CTA: Namer equipped with non-deck penetrating RWS with splinter protection (similar to the RWS in the previous post).  40mm CTA / Spike-LR.

-Merkava SPG (A re-imagined Sholef, as described earlier in this thread by others).  This would have to be almost a complete redesign rather than simply slapping the PzH-2000 turret onto a Merkava hull, but it would use the same components as the Merkava IV / Namer for commonality of parts.  Much lighter (~50 t vs 70 t) since you don't need all that extra armor for the role.

-Merkava SPH-TUSK:  This is a short-barreled 155mm (similar to original M109 short-barrel) on a heavily armored Merkava IV Chassis.    This will be expected to travel with the Merkava and Namer and so it's similarly protected, and it's short barrel helps in military operations in urban terrain where it's used for obstacle reduction / direct fire, but it also fills the role of short ranged indirect fire support for heavy mechanized forces (similar role as 120mm mortar, which it overmatches in range by several KM despite it's short barrel).  Secondary armament includes an RWS

-Namer Command and Namer Ambulance:  Similar to the Namer, but with an even higher roof for additional internal room (RWS)

-Merkava SPG Resupply Vehicle:  Same role and function as the ammo resupply variant for the PzH2000, but based on Merkava components.

-Namer FiST: Forward Observer variant, equipped with additional radios, mast mounted EO package that can be elevated, RWS, and Spike NLOS missiles (25km range), as well as small unmanned aircraft (Hybrid Electric Quad / 2 hour Endurance)

-Namer Heavy Recovery (with RWS)

-Namer Assault Breacher:  Mine Plow, Excavator arm, Mine Clearing Line Charges, RWS

-Merkava IV Scissor Bridge

Trophy APS and M230LF RWS / Spike-LR / Directional UAV countermeasures and VIRSS Smoke Dischargers across the board for anything expected to fight.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2018, 04:32:56 AM »
Merkave Assault Breacher vehicle.  Maybe take the M1 Abrams Breacher superstructure and mate that to the Merkava hull?  Dozer blades and mine plows for everyone! :)
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2018, 10:54:36 AM »
Merkave Assault Breacher vehicle.  Maybe take the M1 Abrams Breacher superstructure and mate that to the Merkava hull?  Dozer blades and mine plows for everyone! :)

You've done it again! Now I've got to hide another purchase from SWMBO! :o
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."