Author Topic: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 38801 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 06, 2012, 06:37:18 PM »
Hi folks,

A thread for your Merkava tank (and variants such as the Namer and Sholef):

Merkava Mk IV:



Namer:



Sholef:



Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:20:51 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 06:47:33 PM »
To begin with, how about a South African Merkava in this sort of colour scheme?


Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:08 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 08:28:47 PM »
I did profiles of a Finnish & ARA Merkava, along with a redraw of a Namer for the USMC in four schemes.

Regards,

John
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:21 AM by GTX_Admin »
Regards,

John

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 11:28:26 PM »
I saw a lot of these when I went on my trip to Israel a few months ago.  Always loved the Merk.

Thanks,

Logan
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:31 AM by GTX_Admin »

Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2012, 01:24:27 AM »
Close Fire Support Vehicle: Sholef with a lower, thicker-armoured turret armed with the AMOS twin-barrelled 120mm mortar. Has a kind of credibility too, since most of the Israeli infantry mortars are/were based on Finnish designs.

AMOS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMOS

AAA Vehicle: Sholef with the heavy AAA turret of your choice. The OTOMATIC turret would be interesting: again, there's a link between Israel and Italy because their 60mm HV gun projects had a common origin.

OTOMATIC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomatic
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:41 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2012, 03:25:19 AM »
I like your thinking.  Now if only someone would release a kit/conversion for either of those in 1/35...



« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:21:51 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 03:34:21 AM »
Actually given the Merkava's heavy armour and Israel's defensive position, I am kind of surprised a Sturmgeschütz or Jagd-Merkava hasn't been looked at...


...another random idea:  What if part of the post War reparations were that Germany had to be equipped with Jewish weapons  (weak, yeah, I know Israel as a modern state able to do so was decades away in '46...but leaving facts aside for now): Bundesheer  Merkavas anyone?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:22:01 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 06:50:56 AM »
I suppose the only issue with that scenario would be that West Germany would be defenceless for quite some time as Israel didn't have indigenously designed combat aircraft or armour initially.

Regards,

John
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:22:13 AM by GTX_Admin »
Regards,

John

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2012, 07:26:18 AM »
I know - one explanation I could think of is that perhaps in the '80s West Germany gets an extremely left wing Govt that adopts an extreme apologist type stance and then starts mandating their armed forces adopt Israeli equipment.  This could result not only in Merkava tanks instead of Leopard IIs but also Lavis instead of Eurofighters etc...
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2012, 08:35:38 AM »
What if you had German and French Merk Mk.1s as part of a swap deal whereby the IAF got Alphajets to replace it's Magisters?

As I understand it, one of the obstacles to Merk exports has been the capacity of Israeli industry to build them (i.e. their domestic requirement uses most of the production capacity), so maybe the Franco-German ones would be licence-built in their countries with their own preference in sub-systems. They'd be looking to upgrade to 120mm at that point (late 1970s) so maybe they'd be the ones to lead development of the 120mm Merk with Israel piggy-backing off that with a choice of GIAT or Rheinmetall guns, SACM or MTU engines etc...

As an alternative, what about a British Merk? The Israelis only started the Merkava project after Britain pulled out of the deal whereby they were co-operating on the design of the Chieftain with the intention of ultimately buying them. What if there was a political reprochment over this at the same time as the Chieftain replacement fell through, say because the fall of the Shah of Iran, who'd placed massive orders for Shir 1s (super Chieftains as eventually supplied to Jordan as Khalids) and Shir 2s (Chally Is basically) took ROE Leeds down completely instead of just hurting it?

This version would see a deal done whereby Britain developed and produced the 120mm Merk with an R30 rifled gun (which Israel then benefitted from) for it's own use, in exchange for Hawks to replace Israel's Magisters. You might then see a Namer-like vehicle developed by Britain in the early 1980s (reportedly, the Army wanted something more like that than the Warrior they got) and a Merk hull with an AS-90 turret in place of the Sholef one used by both Britain and Israel.

The AS-90/Sholef is very doable as a model in 1/72nd scale.....
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 08:39:29 AM by Weaver »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 08:43:41 AM »
I'm liking those ideas. 


In fact, *Off Topic* I plan one day to model a Israeli Cheiftain *End Off Topic*

Regards,

Greg
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 12:28:41 PM »
Wonder whether the Israelis will dig out the Sholef again? Apparently, they have a requirement for a new SPH. Maybe mating Merkava I hulls currently in storage with the turret of the Panzerhaubitze 2000?

Here's a Merkava II hulll with the turret of a Panzerhaubitze 2000 (almost to scale):



A patternmaker for Trumpeter and Hobby Boss announced on Armorama that they intend to do more or less the complete CV90 family in 1/35, including one with the AMOS turret. Since Hobby Boss now announced a CV9040C and CV9040B, I'd reckon it'll be Hobby Boss who release the AMOS version as well.

<...> Bundesheer  Merkavas anyone?

Just Heer.  ;) Bundesheer is the Austrian Army.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 07:59:47 AM »
I know - one explanation I could think of is that perhaps in the '80s West Germany gets an extremely left wing Govt that adopts an extreme apologist type stance and then starts mandating their armed forces adopt Israeli equipment.  This could result not only in Merkava tanks instead of Leopard IIs but also Lavis instead of Eurofighters etc...

Or maybe Merkava turrets on Leopard II hulls?
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 03:18:29 AM »
Maybe a PLA version?  Similar schemes to these maybe:


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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 05:09:14 AM »
Actually given the Merkava's heavy armour and Israel's defensive position, I am kind of surprised a Sturmgeschütz or Jagd-Merkava hasn't been looked at...


Playing with this idea a bit more, how about a Strv-103 styled Tank Destroyer based upon the Namer?  Stick a honking big gun out the front.  Alternatively, go for the Raketenjagdpanzer style approach and do an Anti-tank Namer armed with Rafael Spike missiles...
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2012, 02:45:10 PM »
Problem with both a Sturmgeschutz and/or an S-tank style hull gun on the Merkava is the location of the engine.  It precludes a low, hull mounted gun and then you lose most of the point of having one, which is a substantially lower silhouette over a normal, turreted MBT.  The best you could hope for would be rather like a Ferdinand/Elephant style Panzerjaeger - a fixed casement at the rear of the hull where the gun compartment would be.  In order to take advantage of reverse hulldown positions it would also have to be as high or even higher than a conventional turret (or have an open or "cleft" compartment).   So, its just as easy to go with a conventional turret.

Another matter is of course that such tank-destroyers/assault guns are essentially the result of a defensive mind-set.  Something the Israeli Armoured Corps could never be accused of, particularly since the 1967 war!

However, there is another option which the Israelis haven't really explored yet with the Merkava.  A modular system with easily transferred hull modules.  One as an MBT, one as a HAPC, another as an SPG, etc.   Built all on the same assembly line, you get economies of scale and so cheaper production costs.  For the army, it gets versatility.  You need more HAPCs?  Simply swap out some of your MBTs for HAPC modules.  More MBTs?  Swap out some of your HAPC modules and so on and so on.

Offline raafif

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 09:23:00 AM »
HAPC based on obsolete Merk.Mk.1.


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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 04:15:13 PM »
Now put a VLS in that and things get interesting.
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 08:12:12 PM »
Playing with this idea a bit more, how about a Strv-103 styled Tank Destroyer based upon the Namer?  Stick a honking big gun out the front.  Alternatively, go for the Raketenjagdpanzer style approach and do an Anti-tank Namer armed with Rafael Spike missiles...

What about something like the Archer 17 Pounder with the gun pointing in the opposite direction to forward motoring. Because the Merkava has the engine and driver in the front the gun would not have to be mounted above the engine but rather out the back door. So you have a very low vehicle which is ideal for ambush and rapid escape.

The Namer S-Tank would work because its hull is much higher than a Merkava providing enough clearance over the engine. But rather than a tank destroyer maybe this could be an urban demolition vehicle like the Sturmtiger. The ordnance could be the short barrel 203mm from the M115 howitzer and the early M110 SP howitzers. The 90 kg (200 lbs) HE shell could penetrate 1m of concrete fired 50 feet away or 1.5m at point blank (9 feet). But there would have to be some train and elevation for the ordnance because the Namer hull could not be pointed with the same accuracy as the S-Tank for a fixed gun.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 06:42:21 AM »
One of the concepts behind the original Merkava design was to have a turret with minimum frontal area to reduce sillouette when firing from a hull-down position. How about updating that, using modern technology, by having a tank hunter with an externally-mounted, remote controlled gun?

The Merk is ideal for this because it has that bit of extra space in the back of the hull. In the tankhunter, the commander and gunner sit right at the back of the hull, side-by-side, just inside the rear door. The turret "basket" area then consists of an armoured drum containing a T-72-style "carousel" magazine, but with four layers (2 x projectile, 2 x charge), with an auto-loader feeding rounds to an overhead gun that would look a bit like the Stryker MGS weapon. The gunner and commander's primary vision would be TV cameras, fixed and rotating respectively, on top of the gun mount, but they'd also have direct vision periscopes in the hull roof for all-round vision and emergency backup.



« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:48:37 AM by Weaver »
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 07:46:36 PM »
Cool ideas guys.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 02:02:15 AM »
^^^^^
Yes, absolutely cool!

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2012, 04:29:01 AM »
US Merkavas and derivatives anyone - Namer: Israeli Leopard Coming to the USA
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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2013, 03:52:49 PM »
One of the concepts behind the original Merkava design was to have a turret with minimum frontal area to reduce sillouette when firing from a hull-down position. How about updating that, using modern technology, by having a tank hunter with an externally-mounted, remote controlled gun?

The Merk is ideal for this because it has that bit of extra space in the back of the hull. In the tankhunter, the commander and gunner sit right at the back of the hull, side-by-side, just inside the rear door. The turret "basket" area then consists of an armoured drum containing a T-72-style "carousel" magazine, but with four layers (2 x projectile, 2 x charge), with an auto-loader feeding rounds to an overhead gun that would look a bit like the Stryker MGS weapon. The gunner and commander's primary vision would be TV cameras, fixed and rotating respectively, on top of the gun mount, but they'd also have direct vision periscopes in the hull roof for all-round vision and emergency backup.



Short video clip showing what may be the Merkave V on YouTube:

MERKAVA MARK 5
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Merkava Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2013, 08:49:12 PM »
Cheers  Jeff: I expect my royalty cheque's in the post then....... ;)
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