Author Topic: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 69745 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2012, 05:47:47 PM »
Folks,

I want to keep this discussion civil.  Please keep that in mind in your responses.  Please also try to avoid simply throwing unsupported opinions.  If you don't like the F-35 then fine, just say so - just as I personally don't like the TSR.2 then I also don't expect others to like the F-35.

Most importantly though, focus on providing whiff ideas.  Ben has the right idea in this regard.

Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline simmie

  • In need of an Avatar...or one will be chosen for h
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2012, 07:09:11 PM »
When I started this thread I expected the usual Rafale V Typhoon V Hornet thing.

But nobody has  passed comment on the HAL Tejas as an option!!!

The Indian Navy ve4rsin is in flight test, it could be supplied as knockdowns assembled by Bae Systems at warton.  The cockpit and weapon systems would be lifted straight off the Typhoon to simplify the technian training and provide some economies of scale in the spares purchase.

Just putting it out there for discussion.
Growing old is mandatory

Growing up is optional

Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2012, 08:22:32 PM »
OK, this could be interesting.

Typhoon cannot be navalised without several billion appearing out of essentially nowhere.

Tejas is at least a generation behind everything else. It has nearly a whole development programme to go.

Rafale has political strings attached (Dassault).

JSF at this rate will enter service when all our (UK) current naval exchange pilots have retired (or died of old age). Tongue only slightly in cheek.

We could have Super Hornet today with AESA, JHMCS, advanced cockpit, a plethora of targeting pods, Growler, the list goes on. Just like I was explaining the Saudi F-15 buy to a friend the other day: Legacy platform, kickass avionics.

I don't pretend to know what's best for the US, Australia et al but I know which option I'd prefer for the UK. Get SH now. Buy JSF when it's mature (that ain't yet).

All IMVHO.

Whiffy option: Taranis successor.



« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 08:25:30 PM by Empty Handed »

Offline taiidantomcat

  • Plastic Origamist...and not too shabby with the painting either!
  • Global Moderator
  • Stylishly late...because he was reading comics
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2012, 11:09:05 PM »




Stealthy Gripen!

There are few things to keep in mind with Legacy platforms:

1. In order to succeed the JSF has to fail. Legacy planes can't win on merit by themselves, they can only win "by default" if the JSF fails. They are not comparable.

2. They will need a huge amount of avionics upgrades. IT will increase their cost, and their weight. They will need all the sensors and datalinks and other gizmos to do what the JSF would have done. This means whatever legacy platform you were looking at will have to have significant upgrades.

3. Lack of stealth. I guess to conquer this you have to redesign the aircraft (again super expensive) but maybe you can at least do some "small changes" that reduce RCS a little.

4. Technology marches on. The F-22 isn't for sale. And if the F-35 was causing you sticker shock the F-22 will make you go blind! In the mean time Russia and China are developing fifth gen aircraft. so whatever legacy machine you upgrade and spend all that money on is still behind the competition in only about ten years. Legacy aircraft are still only going to be place holders until the "JSF II" can be developed.

So whatever Hornet, Typhoon, HAL, You are looking at is going to be in serious need of a new variant as it is to "hold the line" for a small time until the next fifth gen platform is up.

I am saying all this not to be rude but to kinda get the creative juices flowing. Think about the parameters above and see what you can come up with. I think the E/F/A-18Z could look interesting  8)

"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Stargazer2006

  • Guest
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2012, 11:14:55 PM »
Absolute beauty!!! *respect*

Offline taiidantomcat

  • Plastic Origamist...and not too shabby with the painting either!
  • Global Moderator
  • Stylishly late...because he was reading comics
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2012, 11:19:12 PM »
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Stargazer2006

  • Guest
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 11:32:56 PM »
I've always loved the MV-36 project... I've got several pics on my HD but don't know who did it. Do you know who created it? Was it someone from one of the forums?

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2012, 02:07:01 AM »
Quote
HAL Tejas as an option

First up I will say that I don't like the Tejas - for multiple reasons - yuck!!!! 

Now that's that's out of the way, does anyone actually have a line drawing that could be used for profiles?  I know there isn't a kit available, which does surprise me.

Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2012, 02:09:43 AM »
The MV-36 looks like a ageing middle aged F-22 -i.e. it has developed a serious paunch and added a lot of weight, picked up a few tricks along the way and also changed drastically from the original plan... :D
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2012, 02:40:22 AM »
My only acceptable replacement for a F-35:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
    • SketchUp 3D Warehouse - My Digital Models
Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2012, 03:35:35 AM »
With an aircraft that will be used by more than one service it is often difficult to discern who is driving what vehicle.  My own solution to the problem would be to add external stores pylons that would be peculiar to that branch of service.  In the case of land based air forces using the stores pylons from the F-16 Yard Dart along with the wing mounted fuel tanks that are most often seen on that aircraft.  The same approach would be applied for the carrier based aircraft such as those to be used by the Royal Navy, US Marine Corps, and US Navy where the stores pylons and fuel tanks from the F-18 Hornet/Super Hornet would be used. 

With that mediocre Panda JSF kit you really need to do something other than straight out of the box.  Even the later release with the weapons bays leaves much to be desired.  Of course I will also be adding wing tip mounted missile launch rails :^)
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2012, 04:08:56 AM »
Quote
Thursday, January 12, 2012
Marines Take Delivery of F-35B STOVL

The first two Lockheed Martin production model F-35B short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft were delivered to the U.S. Marine Corps on Wednesday, the company announced. The two jets are now assigned to the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing's Marine Fighter/Attack Training Squadron 501 residing with the host 33d Fighter Wing at Eglin Air Force Base (AFB) in Florida.

The aircraft, known as BF-6 and BF-8, flew separately arriving at 3:13 p.m. and 4:39 p.m. CST, respectively, after their approximate 90 minute ferry flights from Fort Worth, Texas. U.S. Marine Corps Maj. Joseph Bachmann piloted BF-6 while U.S. Marine Corps Lt. Col. Matt Taylor flew BF-8. Both fighters will be used for pilot and maintainer training at the new F-35 Integrated Training Center.

“Today marks the beginning of a new era of advanced capabilities for the U.S. Marine Corps,” said Larry Lawson, Lockheed Martin’s F-35 program executive vice president and general manager. “The F-35B’s versatility, as demonstrated onboard the USS WASP last fall, will revolutionize our nation’s expeditionary combat power in all threat environments by allowing operations from major bases, damaged airstrips, remote locations and a wide range of air-capable ships. This aircraft will give our warfighters the ability to accomplish their mission, wherever and whenever duty calls.”

In October, F-35Bs conducted their first set of ship trials, known as Developmental Test 1, 20 miles off the coast of Wallops Island, Va. During the 19-day testing period, BF-2 and BF-4 conducted 72 vertical landings and short takeoffs, accomplishing all of its test milestones during the mission. For the year, F-35Bs accomplished 333 System Development and Demonstration test flights and 268 vertical landings.
BF-6 and BF-8 are the first two F-35 deliveries to the Department of Defense in 2012 and the seventh and eighth F-35 aircraft delivered to Eglin AFB since July 2011. Previously, six U.S. Air Force F-35A conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) jets were delivered to the base.




Source
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Paul Wagner

  • Newly Joined - Welcome me!
    • Stoccata School of Defence
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2012, 05:59:19 AM »
does anyone actually have a line drawing that could be used for profiles?  I know there isn't a kit available, which does surprise me.


A quick google image search throws up a few

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Tejas_3_view.gif

http://www.aviationfans.com/images/flca_vl.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/TKXOh695jII/AAAAAAAALT8/GVwA37bPjcc/s1600/lca20tejas20topgunchenar4-726756.jpg

Interesting plane. Aesthetically, at least, I do like it - looks like the love child of a Mirage 2000 and and Avro Arrow! Should be pretty zippy!

Paul


Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2012, 07:00:19 AM »
I'm sure it will be some kind of Flying Frito.
That's what replaced the Farley Fruitbat back in the future.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2012, 09:12:36 AM »
Quote
HAL Tejas as an option

First up I will say that I don't like the Tejas - for multiple reasons - yuck!!!!

Tejas was like, you know, MiG-21/F-5 of the 21st Century (it has none of the Fishbed's aesthetic shortcomings, I'll give 'em that; and IAF could have put the danged thing in service as soon as the flight envelop issues are taken care of and still benefit from the improvement over their MiG-21).  It does fleet air defence and some surface strike with a couple of anti-ship missiles or (unless the Tejas has some really good iron bomb delivery aid, more likely of the precision kind) bombs.  Perfect for a defensive navy like that of India but hardly half of what the Americans want to do with their carrier jets.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?