Author Topic: Missiles on gun tanks  (Read 24523 times)

Offline Crbad

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2016, 09:32:32 AM »
I'm curious. Is the ammunition for 105mm tank guns and howitzers interchangeable?  The above information on velocity suggest different chamber pressures. So, I'm guessing... Probably not?
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2016, 10:12:42 AM »
I'm curious. Is the ammunition for 105mm tank guns and howitzers interchangeable?  The above information on velocity suggest different chamber pressures. So, I'm guessing... Probably not?

No, not interchangeable. 

But I see no reason why the 105mm Howitzer HE projectile could not be used in a 105mm Gun (M68/L7) if it were properly mated to the 105mm Gun cartridge.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 10:21:39 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2016, 10:48:44 AM »
I'm curious. Is the ammunition for 105mm tank guns and howitzers interchangeable?  The above information on velocity suggest different chamber pressures. So, I'm guessing... Probably not?

As mentioned by Jeff, the ammunition is not interchangeable.   The 105mm Howitzer round is a "semi-fixed" round - the projectile sits in the cartridge case but is removable, allowing the number of charge bags to be altered to allow the round to be fired to different ranges,  The L7 105mm tank gun round is a fixed round - the projectile is permanently fixed to the cartridge case.  Different L7 rounds have different quantities of propellant in them to allow differing muzzle velocities but the amount of propellant in each round is fixed.   The 105mm Howitzer is an artillery weapon, the L7 105mm tank gun has a heritage which draws from the naval side of artillery development.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2016, 02:37:06 PM »
Actually there is a 120mm demolition round used by M-1s issued to armoured engineering units.

"120mm M908 HE-OR-T Ammunition
Orbital ATK's M908 HE-OR-T, a high-explosive, obstacle-reduction ammunition with tracer, is one of the eight rounds in our line of 120mm conventional tank ammunition, which is the most advanced such ammunition in the world.

All rounds are fully compatible with 120mm smooth-bore weapons on M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams main battle tanks and the Leopard 2 main battle tanks with L44 and L55 smooth-bore cannons. The 120mm training ammunition designs provide low-cost, live-fire training to the tank crew.

The M908 round was developed to destroy obstacles and barriers (concrete, rock, dragon's teeth, etc.) that are set up to stop tanks. The round is a modification of the M830A1 (commonly known as the MPAT) where the front fuze is replaced with a steel nose. This provides penetration into the obstacle before detonation.

The M908 has demonstrated performance better than the 165mm M123A1 HEP."

The full list of ammunition types is here
https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/armament-systems/120mm/

Basically if suitable munitions can be provided for standard calibres this makes things much easier logistically, as well as for training.  This particular round means armoured engineering units can operate almost standard tanks along side their more specialised Breachers and AEVs etc.
105mm-armed MBTs generally carried a decent number of rounds so they could afford some non-anti-tank ones, but the 40-odd rounds carried by 120mm-armed MBTs seems to be at the lower limit of what tacticians consider acceptable. Pre-Iraq, the US Army went through a phase of not issuing the M1 with ANY HE round.
The Indian gun, is IIRC based on the German 120mm gun with the usual "Indian" flavours which of course will make it incompatible with the German gun!   :o

Now those are two tanks that can use a RWS with ATGM- export Arjun and/or Tank EX MBTs re-gunned with 120mm smoothbore gun (either re-engineered Indian gun or outright imported Rheinmetall gun) and Mini-Samson ATGM RWS.

With an internal ammo capacity of just 39 (Arjun) or 32 (Tank EX) rounds for the main gun, two more shots are two more shots even if those are just 4km-range Spike-LR rather than the 8km-range Spike-ER (that would have been more in-line with gun-launched LAHAT)......
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 12:54:28 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2016, 03:02:03 AM »
How did this thread go so long without this classic being shown?



There was also this variant:

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2016, 03:02:37 AM »
Does this count?

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2016, 01:32:59 PM »
How did this thread go so long without this classic being shown?



By virtue of it being an artillery weapon?  ;D

Hum...... I wonder if that is why North Koreans install ATGM launchers on their Chonma-Ho and Pokpung-Ho MBTs.


That is more than likely because of the unacceptable dispersion their main guns suffer from at longer ranges.  ATGWs are usually more accurate above 2,000 metres than most MBT guns, particularly Eastern Bloc ones of the type that the North Koreans have access to.  With the advent of more precise machining and fire control systems and computers on MBTs, the West and eventually the Russians overcame that problem.  Its one of the reasons why the development of the US Shillelagh died in the mid-1970s - the standard 105mm/120mm guns were simply too good.  North Korea has been reliant for a long time on aged milling machines, invariably purchased second-hand from the fUSSR.


Is Iran faring any better for their Zulfiqar MBT project?  Or do they simply have more-open access to OEM Russian 125mm gun than North Korea?

Though I have heard that PRC is exporting new gun barrels as upgrade to early 125mm guns as well......

What about Iran's ability to procure quality 105mm guns to upgrade their T-54s?  And if they want to go with the "intimidation" route, they can put Kornet missile launchers on those upgraded T-54s, North-Korean-style, too......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2016, 11:56:41 AM »
In AMX-13 equipped with SS-11, who fires and aims missiles, commander or gunner?

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2016, 11:57:32 AM »
Does this count?




It is cool, indeed!!!!

Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #99 on: February 01, 2016, 10:56:50 AM »
In AMX-13 equipped with SS-11, who fires and aims missiles, commander or gunner?

Not entirely sure, but if I am to venture a guess, I would say the gunner (at least primarily) since most modifications of this nature would involve a missile guidance unit that is fixed to the turret's frontal arc rather than being capable of all-around coverage.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 11:12:45 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2016, 12:36:17 PM »
Is Iran faring any better for their Zulfiqar MBT project?  Or do they simply have more-open access to OEM Russian 125mm gun than North Korea?

No idea.  Iran has been very secretive about its defence industries since the Revolution in 1979.   AIUI, the Zulfigar MBT has gone through a couple of designs and in the last 5-10 years their ability to source new machinery has been rather limited by both finances and politics.

Quote
Though I have heard that PRC is exporting new gun barrels as upgrade to early 125mm guns as well......

What about Iran's ability to procure quality 105mm guns to upgrade their T-54s?  And if they want to go with the "intimidation" route, they can put Kornet missile launchers on those upgraded T-54s, North-Korean-style, too......

*SIGH* I don't think the Iranians want to intimidate anybody, they're just rather touchy about how they perceive the rest of the world perceiving them.   The Chinese would be a good source but like anything the Chinese produce you would need a carefully worded contract and on hand quality control people to ensure the quality control was up to scratch at production.

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #101 on: August 02, 2016, 09:14:38 AM »
Does anyone know of a 1/35 (or 1/48) kit of the FV 1620 Humber "Hornet"?


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Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #102 on: June 19, 2017, 12:56:23 AM »
I was wondering if anyone tried to put a single TOW launcher onto a tank turret in a manner similar to that of a pintle-mounted machinegun and ended up finding a setup as part of the background story of the M2 Bradley.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 01:02:23 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #103 on: April 09, 2018, 12:53:59 AM »
Object 614A- T-54 with a triple Malyutka missile launcher, which elevates when in use, at the back of the turret.

Source page HERE (Russian Only!).
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline SebastianP

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #104 on: April 09, 2018, 01:18:42 AM »
These images might help:









Paint this black and the missiles orange and put a great big red Cobra logo on it, and it'll look just like one of the vehicles from the GI Joe toyline...