Author Topic: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 30735 times)

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #100 on: July 14, 2018, 11:18:59 PM »
Oh that's cool!
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #101 on: August 21, 2018, 09:08:51 PM »
Found on FB.

From the owner of Lonewulf Models, Adrian: "first of the Cold War Models, the Hawker P.1124 target drone from 1957, this sizeable drone fits the Hunter F.6 and should look pretty spectacular. This is a test casting and I will be fitting it to the Revell Hunter. Does anyone have info on colours applied to target vehicles in this period, I was thinking orange body and yellow wings."





And

"I am tempted with the Delta Wing Hunter but since the Revell Hunter is a pain to get hold of it would mean basing on the Plastyk or Mistercraft Hunters which I have not looked at yet as to their quality."



I asked him to look at the Revell Hunter as well. How many of you would buy this if it was available? I'm down for two.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #102 on: August 22, 2018, 01:12:41 AM »
Yeah, I'd go for at least two.  That would go so good with a radar nose...

Offline apophenia

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2018, 07:03:30 AM »
Does anyone have info on colours applied to target vehicles in this period, I was thinking orange body and yellow wings."

RAF Jindivik target drones were all-over orange if that helps. Meteor drone conversions had a scheme similar to what you describe - yellow wings with a fuselage (and engine nacelles) divided vertically - orange below, yellow above.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 07:05:14 AM by apophenia »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2018, 01:12:59 AM »
Is there an after-market product for the gun bay/package on the Hawker Hunter?  48th scale of course. 
The Flightpath detailing set has a lot of things, but not that .  :(  I don't know about any of the other detailing sets.  That the Flgihtpath set doesn't is surprising because they do make a set for that package in 1/72.

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #105 on: August 25, 2018, 03:20:53 AM »
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.

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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #106 on: August 27, 2018, 10:29:53 PM »
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.
Yeahhhh, but if you do that, you forever give up any chance of a radar in the nose. Kinda limits the capabilities of a late 50s early 60s fighter, no?

Paul

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #107 on: August 30, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
All it had a was a small ranging radar, put the dish in a teardrop housing under the nose.  ;D



 ;) ;D
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #108 on: August 30, 2018, 06:36:39 PM »
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.
Yeahhhh, but if you do that, you forever give up any chance of a radar in the nose. Kinda limits the capabilities of a late 50s early 60s fighter, no?

Paul

Well there was this one. a probe could go in there too I think.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #109 on: August 31, 2018, 09:10:44 AM »
All it had a was a small ranging radar, put the dish in a teardrop housing under the nose.  ;D
No, I realise that, and a podded radar or nose like the Sabre Dog would be OK for the existing radar, but I'd imagine that an updated Hunter in the 60s would absolutely need a bigger radar to manage the Sparrows or Firestreak missiles it would have been armed with.

Paul

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #110 on: August 31, 2018, 09:53:44 AM »
Wouldn’t an updated Hunter with those missiles be a pointless exercise and bit of polishing
a turd when compared to what else was around in period?
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2018, 12:29:07 PM »
Wouldn’t an updated Hunter with those missiles be a pointless exercise and bit of polishing
a turd when compared to what else was around in period?
Depends on the full extent of the upgrades.  A combination of proposals could produce a suitable lightweight contender.

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #112 on: August 31, 2018, 02:24:17 PM »
By the time you got done, there wouldn't be much Hunter left.  ;D

A lightweight contender for what? The whole LWF notion ended up going
nowhere as the reality was they had to grow/get heavier to be able to be actually
useful in RW combat.

The Hunter is gorgeous and all, but the only reason it soldiered on so long was
because of ministerial and corporate incompetence in getting it into service,
and even more screwed up, developing a replacement.
 :icon_zombie:
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2018, 06:33:33 PM »
By the time 1960's roll around, "upgrading" Hunter for the UK (or any other customer, really) is only meaningful for ground attack as was done IRL, or unless something is preventing the nation from acquiring modern fighters (but then again, where would the upgrades come from?). If it's internal politics that's preventing the purchase, well, upgrading Hunter with a radar nose, entirely new avionics, afterburner, strenghtening the wings, etc. will soon end up costing more than a new fighter would even if psychologically it would be easier to accept upgrades instead of new purchases (even the Swiss who had this problem did not upgrade them for air-to-air).

Before someone brings up the Vietnam War, MiG-17 was viable only because of unrealistic rules of engagement and faulty tactics on the US side, and contrary to the belief, most planes were not shot down after a dogfight but were surprised and never knew they were being attacked until they started getting missile/gun hits. After the US returned to the North in 1972 with relaxed RoE and better training, it was pretty much proven that subsonics don't stand much chance against supersonics because the latter can dictate when and how combat is engaged (ie. only when they're holding the advantage).

Beyond visual range missile truck is not very realistic either if it has to deal with enemy fighters, which is why the US Navy abandoned the F6D Missileer concept already in the 1950's (and subsonic interceptor in the age of supersonic bombers makes the concept even less realistic).

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2018, 04:24:52 AM »
I think the real world cases of the Swiss and Singaporean Hunters provide fair examples of what was realistic with the upgrade front with sidewinders and some protective sensors.




that said, the P.1099 would also provide an interesting option here at least as far as the radar nose but it looks odd in my view.




If one wanted to go right out there, the P.1100 might be an option too:


« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 04:31:29 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2018, 04:28:42 AM »
Hmmm...mention of the MiG-17 makes me wonder about some USN operated Hawker Hunters in aggressor markings instead of the A-4 Skyhawks:

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #116 on: September 02, 2018, 06:05:36 AM »

that said, the P.1099 would also provide an interesting option here at least as far as the radar nose but it looks odd in my view.




If one wanted to go right out there, the P.1100 might be an option too:




The P.1100 is sweet.

If you go to this page, https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=14398, there a nice scratch build of the P.1083 version.

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #117 on: September 03, 2018, 09:44:29 PM »
I can't recall where but I did read that the P1099 was proposed as and upgrade path for a big chunk of the RAF Hunter fleet as well as export models.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #118 on: September 08, 2018, 10:48:52 AM »
Just a modeling thought, use the exhaust end of a Draken as a starting point for modeling a Hunter with afterburner?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #119 on: September 08, 2018, 06:45:28 PM »
Evan, try a Grppen ---- some time ago I matched up a Revell Grippen fuselage half with a Revell Hunter fuselage half  ---- you'd be surprised at how close they are.

Personally I'm not too surprised, I read that BAE 'loaned' a lot of their staff to SAAB.  Another example I've seen at the airport which could reflect that, just look at a SAAB 340 --- it looks a lot like a Jetstream 41 (tail plane is in a different position though)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #120 on: September 09, 2018, 02:34:25 AM »
I was thinking of the Draken more because, especially if I use bits from Revell's early-model Draken, it gives me a place to locate the braking parachute even with the afterburner.  Now, a Hunter upgraded and re-engine with a RM12 or F404/F414 could be very interesting.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #121 on: July 26, 2019, 10:32:26 PM »
Been thinking a bit on the Hunter and its possibilities and an idea struck me, how about the UK supplies Hawks (as in land based P1040 / Sea Hawks) as well as productionised P.1052 and P.1081, Hunters, and productionised P.1083 and P.1099 (and hybrids there of) and then maybe Lightnings to Israel instead of France supplying successive Mysteres, Super Mystere and Mirages etc.  Israel contributes requirements that are incorporated into the base versions as well as upgrades before things are brought to a halt by sanctions post Six Day War.  Israel then goes it alone developing their own production version of an enhanced Hunter (and Lightning) as the Kfir……..


Normally I would have Australia doing all this but the simple truth is good international relations and a stable economic / strategic environment means there often isn't the justification of such developments.

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #122 on: July 27, 2019, 03:32:25 AM »
Some inspiration:





Some other possible schemes:

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2019, 12:19:54 AM »
Very nice, I missed these somehow.

Just had an idea to justify development of several generations of Hawker fighters post war. This relates to the revelation the Sir John Collins was advised that HMAS Melbourne would not be able to operate new aircraft, such as the Scimitar, when they became available, with his response apparently being to coverup this fact to prevent the government cancelling Melbourne and disposing of Sydney.

How about instead of this he goes direct to Hawkers, having recalled that the P.1081, a swept wing evolution of the Seahawk, had been offered to the RAAF, and enquiring how difficult it would be to bring the type into production for the RAN.  Hawkers were able to do this due to the high level of commonality with the Seahawk, and further more were able to offer a navalised Hunter for delivery after 1958, with a transonic, mildly supersonic, radar equipped version following in 1960.  The entire thing was sold to the Australian Government as a RN FAA program and to the British government as a RAN FAA program, each government placing orders for aircraft on the assumption the other had taken all the risks.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2019, 10:06:36 AM »
Very nice, I missed these somehow.

Just had an idea to justify development of several generations of Hawker fighters post war. This relates to the revelation the Sir John Collins was advised that HMAS Melbourne would not be able to operate new aircraft, such as the Scimitar, when they became available, with his response apparently being to coverup this fact to prevent the government cancelling Melbourne and disposing of Sydney.

How about instead of this he goes direct to Hawkers, having recalled that the P.1081, a swept wing evolution of the Seahawk, had been offered to the RAAF, and enquiring how difficult it would be to bring the type into production for the RAN.  Hawkers were able to do this due to the high level of commonality with the Seahawk, and further more were able to offer a navalised Hunter for delivery after 1958, with a transonic, mildly supersonic, radar equipped version following in 1960.  The entire thing was sold to the Australian Government as a RN FAA program and to the British government as a RAN FAA program, each government placing orders for aircraft on the assumption the other had taken all the risks.

Goodness, gracious!  Service chiefs lying to bureaucrats and politicians?   Whatever next?  ;)