Author Topic: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 23569 times)

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #105 on: August 25, 2018, 03:20:53 AM »
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.

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Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #106 on: August 27, 2018, 10:29:53 PM »
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.
Yeahhhh, but if you do that, you forever give up any chance of a radar in the nose. Kinda limits the capabilities of a late 50s early 60s fighter, no?

Paul

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #107 on: August 30, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
All it had a was a small ranging radar, put the dish in a teardrop housing under the nose.  ;D



 ;) ;D
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
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Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #108 on: August 30, 2018, 06:36:39 PM »
Probe in the nose like the Meatbox.
Yeahhhh, but if you do that, you forever give up any chance of a radar in the nose. Kinda limits the capabilities of a late 50s early 60s fighter, no?

Paul

Well there was this one. a probe could go in there too I think.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #109 on: August 31, 2018, 09:10:44 AM »
All it had a was a small ranging radar, put the dish in a teardrop housing under the nose.  ;D
No, I realise that, and a podded radar or nose like the Sabre Dog would be OK for the existing radar, but I'd imagine that an updated Hunter in the 60s would absolutely need a bigger radar to manage the Sparrows or Firestreak missiles it would have been armed with.

Paul

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #110 on: August 31, 2018, 09:53:44 AM »
Wouldn’t an updated Hunter with those missiles be a pointless exercise and bit of polishing
a turd when compared to what else was around in period?
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2018, 12:29:07 PM »
Wouldn’t an updated Hunter with those missiles be a pointless exercise and bit of polishing
a turd when compared to what else was around in period?
Depends on the full extent of the upgrades.  A combination of proposals could produce a suitable lightweight contender.

Offline jcf

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #112 on: August 31, 2018, 02:24:17 PM »
By the time you got done, there wouldn't be much Hunter left.  ;D

A lightweight contender for what? The whole LWF notion ended up going
nowhere as the reality was they had to grow/get heavier to be able to be actually
useful in RW combat.

The Hunter is gorgeous and all, but the only reason it soldiered on so long was
because of ministerial and corporate incompetence in getting it into service,
and even more screwed up, developing a replacement.
 :icon_zombie:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2018, 06:33:33 PM »
By the time 1960's roll around, "upgrading" Hunter for the UK (or any other customer, really) is only meaningful for ground attack as was done IRL, or unless something is preventing the nation from acquiring modern fighters (but then again, where would the upgrades come from?). If it's internal politics that's preventing the purchase, well, upgrading Hunter with a radar nose, entirely new avionics, afterburner, strenghtening the wings, etc. will soon end up costing more than a new fighter would even if psychologically it would be easier to accept upgrades instead of new purchases (even the Swiss who had this problem did not upgrade them for air-to-air).

Before someone brings up the Vietnam War, MiG-17 was viable only because of unrealistic rules of engagement and faulty tactics on the US side, and contrary to the belief, most planes were not shot down after a dogfight but were surprised and never knew they were being attacked until they started getting missile/gun hits. After the US returned to the North in 1972 with relaxed RoE and better training, it was pretty much proven that subsonics don't stand much chance against supersonics because the latter can dictate when and how combat is engaged (ie. only when they're holding the advantage).

Beyond visual range missile truck is not very realistic either if it has to deal with enemy fighters, which is why the US Navy abandoned the F6D Missileer concept already in the 1950's (and subsonic interceptor in the age of supersonic bombers makes the concept even less realistic).

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2018, 04:24:52 AM »
I think the real world cases of the Swiss and Singaporean Hunters provide fair examples of what was realistic with the upgrade front with sidewinders and some protective sensors.




that said, the P.1099 would also provide an interesting option here at least as far as the radar nose but it looks odd in my view.




If one wanted to go right out there, the P.1100 might be an option too:


« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 04:31:29 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2018, 04:28:42 AM »
Hmmm...mention of the MiG-17 makes me wonder about some USN operated Hawker Hunters in aggressor markings instead of the A-4 Skyhawks:

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #116 on: September 02, 2018, 06:05:36 AM »

that said, the P.1099 would also provide an interesting option here at least as far as the radar nose but it looks odd in my view.




If one wanted to go right out there, the P.1100 might be an option too:




The P.1100 is sweet.

If you go to this page, https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=14398, there a nice scratch build of the P.1083 version.

Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #117 on: September 03, 2018, 09:44:29 PM »
I can't recall where but I did read that the P1099 was proposed as and upgrade path for a big chunk of the RAF Hunter fleet as well as export models.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #118 on: September 08, 2018, 10:48:52 AM »
Just a modeling thought, use the exhaust end of a Draken as a starting point for modeling a Hunter with afterburner?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #119 on: September 08, 2018, 06:45:28 PM »
Evan, try a Grppen ---- some time ago I matched up a Revell Grippen fuselage half with a Revell Hunter fuselage half  ---- you'd be surprised at how close they are.

Personally I'm not too surprised, I read that BAE 'loaned' a lot of their staff to SAAB.  Another example I've seen at the airport which could reflect that, just look at a SAAB 340 --- it looks a lot like a Jetstream 41 (tail plane is in a different position though)