Author Topic: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)  (Read 15534 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« on: December 30, 2011, 01:42:10 AM »
So what about an M8 or M20 with some improvements?  I recently acquired both types in 1/35th scale (Italeri) and was pleasantly surprised at the detail provided within.  Unlike the earlier Monogram M8 and M20 kits (1/32nd scale) which are nice but a bit on the clunky side.  The Italeri kits appear to capture all of the fine details but fail on the M2 Browning .05" heavy machine gun which is a problem in almost every Italeri kit I have encountered so far. 

Of course you could build the kit straight out of the box and just add the markings of your own choosing but I would like to take it to another level by adding an M151 Remote Weapons Station from AFV Club (Stryker accessory set) or maybe sacrifice one of the 25mm Bushmaster remote weapons stations that was offered in the first issue of the Tamiya HMMWV kit.  I like either one and the Bushmaster RWS will certainly take up a lot more space in the vehicle.  With what I have in mind the fighting compartment would need to be fitted with a roof and a couple of access hatches added.  Of course this all depends on which version you are using and keep in mind the M20 does have a raised superstructure/bulkhead surrounding the fighting compartment while the M8 does not so additional height might be required to get clearance for your remote weapons station. 

Here are a couple of images of the M8 and M20 to ponder:

M8 Greyhound on display somewhere in Connecticut (2008) 

(Larger image available for viewing by clicking on this image. Image source: Wikipedia/Minnesota Historical Society)


M20 Armored Utility Vehicle on display at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland

(Larger image available for viewing by clicking on this image. Image source: Wikipedia/Mark Pellegrini)


Wikipedia M8 Greyhound/M20 Scout Car
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 01:44:35 AM by jeffryfontaine »
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 02:20:09 AM »
At first glance, that second picture almost looks to have a ATGW tube mounted.

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Greg
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 02:23:22 AM »
What about fitting something similar to the T34 Calliope rockets to the M8?



Regards,

Greg
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 03:07:39 AM »
At first glance, that second picture almost looks to have a ATGW tube mounted.

It is a rather ragged looking replica of a water-cooled M1919 Browning .30 machine gun.  Not sure if that weapon ever graced a real M20 in real life but museums are known for making up things on the fly with the attitude that accuracy can be ignored. 
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 03:24:37 AM »
At first glance, that second picture almost looks to have a ATGW tube mounted.

It is a rather ragged looking replica of a water-cooled M1919 Browning .30 machine gun.  Not sure if that weapon ever graced a real M20 in real life but museums are known for making up things on the fly with the attitude that accuracy can be ignored.

Yeah, I realised that after looking closely...
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 07:35:42 AM »
I was with Greg at first glance, but then the 'details' came out.

How about a quad .50 turret?  ISTR seeing one somewhere as a photo.  Failing that, a pair of .50s from the Tamiya Pibber might make an interesting deviation.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 08:43:08 AM »
I was with Greg at first glance, but then the 'details' came out.

How about a quad .50 turret?  ISTR seeing one somewhere as a photo.  Failing that, a pair of .50s from the Tamiya Pibber might make an interesting deviation.


There is an image of an air defense vehicle with a four-gun arrangement in an armored turret on the Wikipedia M8 Greyhound/M20 Scout Car page.  While it may actually be a Maxon M45 Machine Gun Mount underneath the armored shell it is difficult to tell. 

The Mk36 mount is the weapons mount that is found at the bow of the 31.0' PBR Mk1 and Mk2 and above the pilot house on the 50.0' PCF Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3.  The Mk36 mount with the twin Browning machine guns would be an ideal match-up with this vehicle.  Reminds me of the reconnaissance vehicle based on the M5 Stuart that was armed with the Mk17 Scarf Ring Mount and a pair of Browning .50s.   
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 08:49:16 AM by jeffryfontaine »
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 08:58:39 AM »
EDIT: Jeffry was faster!

How about a quad .50 turret?  ISTR seeing one somewhere as a photo.


Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.

Here's a Colombian one:


What about fitting something similar to the T34 Calliope rockets to the M8?




Greg, was there any mention of where that pic was taken? The scenery looks a lot like many of the villages here in northern Hesse.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 09:00:32 AM by ChernayaAkula »
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 09:32:22 AM »
Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.

Damm! There goes a whiff!

Jeff - I think a Bushmaster would easily fit in place of the 37mm M6; that was a pretty big gun. The turret (and the rest of the vehicle) could use some extra armor but if an M8 can take a quad .50, it could probably handle a couple of Bushmasters.

A smaller turret with an M151 would look good, too. Maybe with a minigun or a Mk 19.

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 09:45:21 AM »
Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.


Damm! There goes a whiff!
<...>


 :-[ Sorry!

How about this, then:
Pretty interesting in and of itself, how about this turret fitted to an M8?


DN-V Búfalo
Mexican-built DN-5 Toro (looking a lot like an LAV-150) with the 75mm turret of an M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage. Apparently very much the only self-propelled artillery in the Mexican Army.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 09:46:33 AM »
Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.


Damm! There goes a whiff!
<...>


 :-[ Sorry!

How about this, then:
Pretty interesting in and of itself, how about this turret fitted to an M8?


DN-V Búfalo
Mexican-built DN-5 Toro (looking a lot like an LAV-150) with the 75mm turret of an M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage. Apparently very much the only self-propelled artillery in the Mexican Army.


Hi Frank,

Hope your "care package" has arrived by now. 

I did consider stuffing the Bushmaster remote weapons station inside of the M8 turret but I liked the additional height provided by the raised bulkhead around the passenger compartment on the M20.  It would give the guys inside under cover some much needed headroom.   Fitting a flat sheet of plastic over the opening would proved the roof or maybe go one further and cut the roof section from the Tamiya Bushmaster HMMWV kit and use that as the roof on the M20.  That way you have all of the turret features without any extra effort. 

Hi Moritz,

That M8 HMC turret on the V-150/XM706 looks darn good.  I just picked up an Italeri LVT(A)4 (75mm howitzer turret) with the idea of attempting to mate that turret to one of the M8 kits. 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 09:48:58 AM by jeffryfontaine »
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 10:42:40 AM »
Those South America folks did a perfect kit bash in 1/1 scale on that M8.
Some where (back of closet?) I have M8 with Sherman turret 76mm kit bash done in 1972-73.

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2013, 08:28:02 PM »
BGen Rockingham's Greyhound converted to a tactical CP in the Korean war. Markings are not accurate... which partially explains why its not finished, I keep hoping to scrape off the wrong #'s and apply some correct ones before flat coating & weathering:



Offline Weaver

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2013, 09:26:08 PM »
Wonder what a Saladin or Scorpion turret would look like on one? Might need a spacer ring to get adequate gun depression over the driver's "hood" on the Scorpion.
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2013, 09:30:14 PM »
Fetching blue civvie one:





It could just be somebody's innovative family saloon, but it also occurred to me that it could be a forgotten movie prop. Image from here, but no answers unfortunately:

http://www.thestreetpeep.com/2010/08/6x6.html

Looks like a cool website BTW.
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2013, 09:48:12 PM »
I'm sure I saw a photo of a police dept M8, maybe without a turret? Possibly LAPD SWAT?

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2013, 02:35:03 AM »
I wonder...half track variant?
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2013, 05:35:25 AM »
Brilliant idea!  :)

No clue whether the half-track bits (from an M2 half-track) and the M8 are to scale, though.



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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2013, 06:11:18 AM »
Why have I never seen a concept like this before?  This is awesome.

Cheers,

Logan

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2013, 06:47:31 AM »
Brilliant idea!  :)

No clue whether the half-track bits (from an M2 half-track) and the M8 are to scale, though.




Close. The M2 and M8 share the same front tire diameter, so I scaled, cut and pasted. I cut out some space between the drive and return roller and voila:



I don't think the small contact area improves traction or reduces ground pressure compared to the original, so maybe that (plus the extra complexity) is why it was never tried.  Looks great, though.

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2013, 07:13:49 AM »
I know there are several big U.S. cities that have and use M8/M20's as SWAT unites. I remember seeing an M20 with an armored roof ,with roof hatch being used. It was a dark blue with SWAT in large white letters on both sides of the body. This was in LA I think and a black.one in Chicago with police on the sides.  Never even heard of a modeler even thinking about making one. I've been toying with doing something like this with my resin Mowag four wheeler but that is as far as it goes.
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2013, 07:32:01 AM »
Quote
I don't think the small contact area improves traction or reduces ground pressure compared to the original, so maybe that (plus the extra complexity) is why it was never tried.

Bah!!! Technicalities!

Great images guys.
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2013, 10:28:18 AM »
I don't think the small contact area improves traction or reduces ground pressure compared to the original, so maybe that (plus the extra complexity) is why it was never tried.  Looks great, though.

It wouldn't be too hard to make, but it would be additional maintenance.  I've heard that the cross-country ride of the M8 Greyhound family was superior to that of the US halftracks, so I doubt that the configuration would have improved mobility, either.

That having been said, I have a special place in my heart for halftracks, so I think this is both practical and fantastic!

Cheers,

Logan

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2013, 10:48:17 AM »
If we stretch the rear by about 2 feet, the original track will have room. Move the turret ring back by the same amount and put in a bigger gun. Now we have an excuse for the halftrack!

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2013, 12:21:26 PM »
I suppose there is no stopping anyone from using a new-construction turret with one of those compact 90mm guns to re-arm the Greyhound?
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2013, 01:56:59 PM »
Grey Hellcat


Offline kerick

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2013, 11:29:24 PM »
The Colombian Army used M8s with TOW launchers.

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2013, 02:30:18 AM »
The Colombian Army used M8s with TOW launchers.

Interesting - any photos?
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2013, 04:50:55 AM »

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2013, 05:16:10 AM »
Now that's tidy: a turret that actually matches the lines of the hull!  :)

EDIT : hang on, that's not a Greyhound! It's the early version of the Brazilian EE-9 Cascaval, which, although it looks Greyhoundish, is actually based on an Engasa truck chassis.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 05:23:02 AM by Weaver »
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2013, 08:02:35 AM »
I've not seen that picture before.  That's great!  I guess that's what they did with the M3A3 turrets when they used the hull for the X1A tank.



Cheers,

Logan

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2013, 01:13:13 AM »
Thought some of you might like these pictures:











Note the M3 Scout Car in the background.  Not bad for a vehicle discarded by its original user in 1943!

Cheers,

Logan

Offline kerick

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2013, 01:21:35 AM »
I thought the White was a HUMMV at first. You just don't see them around anywhere these days.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2015, 11:46:12 PM »
Big Greyhounds




Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2015, 11:48:32 PM »
I like the 2nd one. Where is the turret from?
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2015, 01:08:38 AM »
^^^^
M18 hellcat

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2015, 04:32:43 AM »
Big Greyhounds -- would not thought of that stretch.  Gives me Greyhound build fever. :-*

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2015, 06:59:51 AM »
What are the Columbians using the quad .50s for? I guess my HMMWV with quad .50 wasn't too unrealistic.

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2015, 01:41:16 PM »
What are the Columbians using the quad .50s for? I guess my HMMWV with quad .50 wasn't too unrealistic.

Based on the cleanliness of the vehicles, parading around looking tough and intimidating the general populace.  :icon_fsm:
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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2015, 02:13:07 PM »
What are the Columbians using the quad .50s for? I guess my HMMWV with quad .50 wasn't too unrealistic.

Based on the cleanliness of the vehicles, parading around looking tough and intimidating the general populace.  :icon_fsm:

Uh huh -- bet that is mostly it. :)

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2016, 02:29:05 AM »
M-20 as small IFV
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 02:30:52 AM by ysi_maniac »

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2017, 01:14:58 AM »
Upgunned Greyhound with 75mm or, more plausible, 57mm


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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2017, 01:26:49 AM »
Well, they look cool, however, that turret and gun combination would be way too heavy
for the M-8 chassis and powertrain.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2017, 11:42:52 AM »
Shorter M-20.  ;D


Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2018, 05:03:37 AM »
M20 and Sdkfz234