Author Topic: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration  (Read 10795 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« on: September 01, 2012, 09:02:40 AM »
Why when I look at this:



Do I think crop duster...
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 09:15:20 AM »
I do have Avenger kit-bash all planned out.

Can see one pictured as crop duster.  And there are surplus SR-71s for modification into rapid response crop dusters.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 10:26:54 AM by finsrin »

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 10:13:58 AM »
Biplane, like the F3F is to the F4F
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Geoff

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 07:03:14 PM »
Swedish navy in Sea Blue Gloss, but with turrets etc.

Offline upnorth

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2012, 11:17:54 PM »
Rip out all the naval gear, ventral gun and reduce the radio equipment to bare minimum essentials (perhaps to the point where it could get by with a crew of two).

After that; rig the torpedo bay to take conventional bombs, put a couple of 20 mm cannons in each wing, plug in an R-2800 and slap on some SEAC roundels and send her hunting inland.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 02:24:49 AM »
Biplane, like the F3F is to the F4F

 :)
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 03:38:12 AM »
I have plans so build a 1/72 USAAF A-32A Thrush. A peer to the A-25A Shrike.

OD and Grey.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 03:42:02 AM by The Big Gimper »
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 03:57:00 AM »
Rip out all the naval gear, ventral gun and reduce the radio equipment to bare minimum essentials (perhaps to the point where it could get by with a crew of two).

After that; rig the torpedo bay to take conventional bombs, put a couple of 20 mm cannons in each wing, plug in an R-2800 and slap on some SEAC roundels and send her hunting inland.


Well the Avenger did actually carry conventional bombs in real life:



+ see here

Developing the idea further though, what about a Grumman Avenger in Armée de l'Air markings in a scenario where France didn't fall.  Maybe have the Avenger operating in a kind of Fairey Battle tupe function?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2012, 03:57:25 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline jcf

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2012, 11:04:03 AM »
Most of the torpedo bombers of the period also functioned as level bombers.

The R-2800 was proposed for the TBM-3, they went for the 1,900 hp R2600-20 instead.

Two aircraft were converted to the XTBM-5 configuration, a faired ventral step, removal
of the turret and conversion to two-seat configuration with twin-.30s on flexible mount
were among the changes.

Bu No 00550 was modified into a single-seater in July 1942.

The G-56 was a proposal for a developed Avenger with Martin turret and R-2800, one aircraft was
converted to test the turret. The twin-.50s were found to have a lower effective rate of fire than the
single gun turret due to the guns having to interrupted twice as often to clear the tail.



The PZL P.46 Sum has always reminded me of fixed gear, twin-tail Avenger.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/pzl46.html

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Offline sequoiaranger

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Twin-Tailed Avenger?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2012, 11:59:40 PM »
>The PZL P.46 Sum has always reminded me of fixed gear, twin-tail Avenger.<

Hmmmm--maybe the twin-tail arrangement on an Avenger would make the Martin twin-.50 turret feasible!
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration: reengining with V3420 and more
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 01:08:01 AM »



Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 02:04:01 AM »
Biplane, like the F3F is to the F4F
How about more like the XF4F-1 was to the F4F-2?  The original XF4F-1 concept was a biplane, they redid it as a monoplane as the F4F-2.

Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 08:01:08 PM »
Have 4 planned:

A shortened one to become a Bomber-Fighter (XBFF-1  ::) ) in a continuance of the vein started by the BF2C. F4F writ large. Problematic in plastic but I'm persisting dammit!

A General Motors XBT2M-1 single-seater with bubble canopy and R-3350 as an insurance policy for the other BTs. Ironically, I'm also planning a Fisher (General Motors subsidiary) XBTF-1 based on the XP-75 (a R-3350 will fit in the fuselage) and have the company in competition with itself.

A Grumman XF-89 (essentially F-89 bits stuck to an Avenger).

An Avenger fuselage with fore/aft turrets mated to P-61 wings/booms. A failed escort fighter that makes a killing in the attack arena. Using up spare bits. Not thought of a full backstory yet. Maybe Northrop are license-building Avenger fuselages and use one to expedite the P-61??

Usual caveat of they'll be finished in my next life!   :-\

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration: reengining with V3420 and more
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2013, 10:53:19 PM »



Hmm!   How about this one with a slightly longer canopy and Douglas A-26 turrets top & bottom Carlos  ----

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 01:56:15 AM »
Kit, that would be the Avenger's proposed successor, the Douglas XSB2D-1

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2013, 03:08:59 AM »
I knew I got this idea from somewhere CB,   ;D

I think the arrangement would be better on Carlos's profile though, a bit more room I think ----

Offline jcf

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 03:58:23 AM »
 The Douglas XSB2D-1 was intended to replace the SBD Dauntless and the SB2C Helldiver, the
replacement for the TBF Avenger was to be the Grumman Design 70/XTB3F. This project grew
out of a drag and weight reduction program for the TBF and eventually led to the AF-2 Guardian.

There were five preliminary configurations in the Design 70 proposal:
G70, R-2800 with dorsal turret
G70A, R-3350 with dorsal turret
G70B, R-4360 and GE remote-controlled turret
G70D, R-3350 and I-20 turbojet
G70F, R-3350 and Westinghouse 24C turbojet

The new .60 MG was originally proposed for wing armament, this was later changed to 20mm cannon.
The T17 .60 MG project was an unsuccessful program that was based on the original 15mm version of
the German MG151.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 04:22:13 AM »
The original replacement was to have been the Vought XTBU Sea Wolf.



They had to turn that over to Consolidated to be the TBY Sea Wolf and that went about as well as if they had given it to the Japanese and asked them to license build it for the USN.

Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 04:23:56 AM »
Oooo...look at all of that glass...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2013, 04:45:20 AM »
The pilot, radioman, bombardier, gardener, horticulturist, geneticist, dorsal gunner, ventral gunner...

Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2013, 04:48:10 AM »
 ;D  Oh, that would be cool to model:  a cockpit with pilot, gunner and in-between a bunch of plants growing and being watered.  Maybe some tulips:

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2013, 05:12:35 AM »
Erm, my son could think of something else to grow ---  ;D


not that I would condone anything like that of course --       :P

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 05:14:52 AM »
Oh...tomatoes  ;)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Grumman Avenger ideas and inspiration
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2013, 05:59:38 AM »
Whoops!  I got my prototypes all mixed up  :-[  I thought that the SB2D, which evolved into the AD, was supposed to replace all the dive and torpedo bombers but proved unsuccessful so they went back to the drawing boards.

We all call them greenhouses, I'm surprised we haven't see one molded that way before...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 06:01:28 AM by Cliffy B »
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous