Author Topic: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 25794 times)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2013, 08:28:49 AM »
AV-8A, stationed in Alaska, large drop tanks and Americanized Sea Eagles.   Or Greece.  Or Turkey.
I doubt you could do both the large drop tanks and the Americanized Sea Eagles, both are heavy stores which need the inboard pylon on each wing.  The outboard pylons don't have near the load capacity of the inboard ones.  I could see one tank and one missile.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2013, 08:32:33 AM »
Why did the first generation Harrier use fairly small auxiliary fuel tanks?  Weight restrictions?  Mission profile?   
 
Would fitment of somewhat enlarged tanks be reasonable?
If memory serves me correctly, mostly overall weight restrictions.  The larger fuel tanks were used on occasion for ferry missions where nothing was carried on the outboard hardpoints.  The Harrier's forte was BAI and it wouldn't need external tankage for that.  External tanks would primarily be for ferry operations when you'd also have strakes beneath the fuselage rather than gunpods.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2013, 08:34:57 AM »
Thanks.
BAI?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2013, 08:54:01 AM »
Thanks.
BAI?
BAI = Battlefield Air Interdiction - Close Support that crosses over the line of battle.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2013, 08:01:43 PM »
Advanced BAI, even. Initially they were to operate damned near in the mud with the infantry (dispersed at clearings not far behind the artillery), partially due to their short combat radius & partially because they were supposed to supply "immediate" support to the infantry.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2013, 12:41:45 AM »
AV-8A, overall satin olive drab and fluorescent red-orange outer flying surfaces.  U.S. Army.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 01:26:54 AM by Daryl J. »
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2013, 09:46:18 AM »
Ok...another question if I may:

Would the AV-8A need visible upgrades to drop smart bombs?   

Reason for the question:   The Army keeps their Harriers through the first Iraq conflict.   
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Offline Scooterman

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2013, 10:06:08 AM »
Not really.  Any aircraft could carry a LGB, but would need somebody else, either in another aircraft or on the ground, to laze the target if the aircraft didn't have it's own capibility.  Your timeframe could work, say if the Harrier had used a Pave Spike pod on the C/L and LGBs on the inboards.  A lot of work to do that though in a AV-8A.  Granted the Corps today fly LITENING pods and LGBs on Harrier IIs but the workload between an A model and B are very different.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2013, 10:20:06 AM »
Ok...another question if I may:

Would the AV-8A need visible upgrades to drop smart bombs?   

Reason for the question:   The Army keeps their Harriers through the first Iraq conflict.




Nope, just need one of these guys around and you're golden  :)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2013, 10:54:00 AM »
Well, I'm not sure of the equipment volume requirements, but I keep thinking of a Harrier GR.3 nose with the LRMTS replaced by a suitable designator's guts.  Add in the LIDs from the R/L AV-8C and you'd have a nice combo.

I could see such a Harrier variant in a nice two- or three-tone desert scheme over Irag in Desert Storm; especially since there've been AV-8A's in such temporary schemes for war games.

As another approach, since the US Army also evaluated the Northrop F-5, a F-5E in Army markings with the radar nose replaced by the short recce nose with the cameras replaced by the optics from a designator pod and one of the cannon replaced by the guts of the pod, the barrel opening now serving as a cooling air scoop for the electronics.  This could make a nice team display of an attack Harrier and it's Fast-FAC F-5E designator, both in Asia Minor schemes for southwest asian conflicts.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 11:30:43 AM by elmayerle »

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2013, 12:45:21 PM »
Quote
As another approach, since the US Army also evaluated the Northrop F-5, a F-5E in Army markings with the radar nose replaced by the short recce nose with the cameras replaced by the optics from a designator pod and one of the cannon replaced by the guts of the pod, the barrel opening now serving as a cooling air scoop for the electronics.  This could make a nice team display of an attack Harrier and it's Fast-FAC F-5E designator, both in Asia Minor schemes for southwest asian conflicts.

Such as the nose found in the AFV Club RF-5E?   Or are there a variety of noses?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:   Perused the Stash Storage Department and found a Monogram F-5E.   There is a short recce nose right in the kit.     :icon_music: :icon_music: :icon_music:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And thanks to each for the RW information. :)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 02:19:49 AM by Daryl J. »
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2013, 12:12:24 AM »
Ok...another question if I may:

Would the AV-8A need visible upgrades to drop smart bombs?   

Reason for the question:   The Army keeps their Harriers through the first Iraq conflict.


If you look carefully at this Marine Corp AV-8B+ you'll see it has a GBU-31 JDAM on the inner pylon,  I thought this was a guided bomb ---

I tried to get a good photo of it but people just kept getting in the way.

 

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2013, 02:21:09 AM »
Note the painted cold nozzles and open front landing gear doors.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2013, 03:13:18 AM »
Daryl's question was about an AV-8A, i.e. 1st generation. However I think the answer's still the same: carrying an LGB and dropping it is a bit of switchology and wiring. RAF GR.3s dropped Paveways during the Falklands war on targets illuminated by FACs on the ground, so it must be possible for a 1st gen aircraft.

As to re-packing the guts of a designaotr pod into the nose of a GR.3, I think that's on too. If you look at a contemporary TIALD pod, it isn't huge. You might have to fatten/stretch/reprofile the nose extension a little, but you're going to have to do that anyway to accomodate the sensor head. You'd probably also have to lose the side-facing F.95 camera, but again, probably a worthwhile trade-off. If the mose ended up longer and heavier enough to cause a problem, you could always fit the extended tail fin from the 2-seater to compensate.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Harrier/Harrier II (AV-8...) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2013, 03:15:32 AM »
Personally, I'm waiting for the new Airfix GR.1/GR.3 kits because I want to do a series of models along the lines that the US Army, British Army and Royal Marines all won the 1960s arguments about CAS and ended up with their own Harriers with their own equipment fits.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
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