Author Topic: a Concept Proved ?  (Read 253 times)

Offline raafif

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a Concept Proved ?
« on: August 20, 2026, 07:12:27 AM »
WARNING :- some meddling with History for this story.

1940 – after seven years patrolling the oceans the prototype French submarine ‘Surcouf’ was in dock waiting for the engineers to fix their engines & other items – this was taking a long time.  When the Germans invaded France their advance was unexpectedly fast forcing the Surcouf’s crew to hurriedly re-assemble one engine and depart across the Channel to Britain forthwith.  Despite the efforts of the Royal Navy & dockyards it took much to get her back in shape including changing fuel-pipe fittings to Imperial sizes so she could be refuelled in Britain & later, America.

Once this was done she was to resume patrolling but she didn’t fit into any R.N. operational plans so she resumed solitary patrols.
Eventually needing further expensive repairs to her unusual machinery, she was sent to the Groton, Connecticut boatyards in America who also spent much manpower & materials to fix her.  Her on again / off again service made her an unwelcome drain on the war effort so a plan was hatched to get rid of her.  She was posted to go to French Polynesia as a harbour defence vessel to protect the islands against the Japanese.

However, in 1941, General de Gaulle wanted to capture the islands of St. Pierre & Miquelon off the south coast of Newfoundland as the governor there was known to be a Vichy sympathiser & there was a fear that German U-boats could use it for information, weather reports & possibly some resupplying.
The secret French operation went ahead keeping Britain, America & Canada in ignorance – it was successful, but angered everyone else.

Now needing some more repairs, and definitely unwelcome in Groton, Connecticut, Surcouf was handed off to Canadian authorities.  Lacking the means to carry out the many new repairs required, Canada accepted Surcouf as a harbour defence vessel in Halifax for the rest of the war.

W.W.2 continued into 1943 – pending the long-expected Allied invasion some French people in the north started to think that maybe the Vichy government wasn’t too bad – as the Germans tended to leave policing to local police & militia, the southerners appeared to have more freedoms.  This was encouraged by Spain’s Franco helping the people in Vichy France with food & other supplies.
This situation meant that after the withdrawal of German troops from France in early 1944 to Belgium & Holland but mainly to bolster the Eastern Front, French federal elections resulted in fully three-quarters of the populace voting for a majority Vichy government – Britain was against it all but and wiped their hands of any activity in France sticking to helping Belguim & Holland.

So where does that leave Surcouf ?

Offline apophenia

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Re: a Concept Proved ?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2026, 03:44:50 AM »
... So where does that leave Surcouf ?

Well, of course, we Canadians knew the transferred Surcouf as the HMCS Elcid Barrett. That 'The Barrett' would become a picket boat defending the Bedford Basin was, actually, a wartime cover story. Instead, Surcouf was taken to the Dartmouth Marine Slips where her gun armament was removed. [1]

In lieu of main guns, HMCS Elcid Barrett was fitted with a pressurised compartment forward of the conning tower. With revisions and upgrades done, the revised submarine quietly left Halifax on 03 May 1942. Much of the crew were French sous-mariniers who were seconded to the RCN. In command was Cdr Charles Taschereau Beard. [2] The HMCS Elcid Barrett arrived at Belfast on 17 May and tied up to a jetty on Musgrave Channel.

Outre-mer and Operation Jubilee

In Northern Ireland, HMCS Elcid Barrett began familiarisation exercises with members of the 1er Bataillon, Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal (part of the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division). The FMS had been practicing coastal night assaults in light boats. It was in that capacity, launching from HMCS Elcid Barrett's pressurised hold, that 1er FMS would achieve fame for their Dieppe landings in the early hours of 19 Aug 1942 ...

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[1] Initially, the plan had been to replace the twin French 203 mm /50 Modčle 1929 cannons with BL 8-inch Mark VIII guns. However, none of those British pieces could be spared for the Canadian project.

[2] Beard had come out of retirement to take this command. Note that the wartime RCN operated almost entirely en anglaise - the HMCS Elcid Barrett being the sole exception.
"Well, Tom Thompson came paddling past, I'm pretty sure it was him ..."

Offline raafif

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Re: a Concept Proved ?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2026, 06:55:50 AM »
Well, of course, we Canadians knew the transferred Surcouf as the HMCS Elcid Barrett.
The name Surcouf was kept - renaming boats was & is bad ju-ju.

1950’s - wishing to expand its technology industries, Canada rebuilt Surcouf and fully modernised her with new engines & other equipment.  Surcouf’s two 203mm main guns were kept but the troublesome leaky turret was welded fixed with extra drain holes – the often-jamming gun-barrel tampons were removed needing the breaches to be open to let water drain - a wet turret was considered acceptable due to the unlikeliness of a crash-dive being needed.
Other technologies were at the top of the list too – including advanced German items like the V-2 rocket, several of which were obtained.
Surcouf’s rear airplane hanger was extended and modified to take a V-2 rocket.  A launch platform was attached to the rear deck.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2026, 07:00:35 AM by raafif »

Offline apophenia

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Re: a Concept Proved ?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2026, 08:41:42 AM »
Nice!  :smiley:

The name Surcouf was kept - renaming boats was & is bad ju-ju...

The HMCS Elcid Barrett renaming was an inside joke. I assumed that Surcouf was named after the French privateer Robert Surcouf. From there I lept to the Stan Rogers shanty "Barrett's Privateers"  ;D

____________________________________________

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Offline Frank3k

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Re: a Concept Proved ?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2026, 10:30:11 AM »
I like the V-2 launcher! I have the old Heller Surcouf, somewhere.

Offline raafif

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Re: a Concept Proved ?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:55:22 AM »
Meanwhile, by the late 1950's, with the decline in influence of Spain's Franco, de Gaulle had made great progress in reuniting France & the Vichy were again under threat - but not only from the northern French.
French Canadians showed solidarity with their brethren across the Atlantic - especially a small section of the military.  Canada, being interested in the concept of submarine-borne attack had studied the giant I-400 Japanese submarine in America and its successful attack on the Panama Canal in 1945 by avoiding U.S. surface forces.

A secret plan was formulated to approach Vichy France & launch a V-2 -  followed up with a barrage from the main guns.  Despite the presence of some loyal Vichy in Canada's Military, this plan was kept quiet and Surcouf proceeded to sea in another "test" of a V-2 launch.
Travelling underwater across the Atlantic and into the Mediterranean unnoticed, Surcouf surfaced off the French shore while still dark and quietly readied the V-2 and guns.  The missile was launched at daybreak, its improved guidance mechanism leading it to explode in the intended target, a forest, as a show of strength & warning.
Along with a land invasion from the northern French military, a quick Vichy capitulation followed.

Proving for the second time in history the concept of under-sea-borne attack, so the concept was now back on the table for many of the larger countries like America & Russia that could afford to build these larger submarines leading to designs for Tank-carrying & jet-fighter-launching submarines (like the Boeing AN-1 etc).