Author Topic: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV  (Read 37841 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« on: March 20, 2012, 06:03:47 AM »
Marder IFV

Wikipedia - Marder IFV

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(Image source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marder1A3.6.jpg)


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TAM (Tank) and VCTP

Wikipedia - TAM (Tank), VCTP, VCA 155, VCTM, VCPC, VCLC, VCA (Med-Evac), and VCRT

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(Image source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TAM_snorkel.JPG

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Puma IFV

Wikipedia - Puma IFV

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(Image source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SPz_Puma_Mobilitätsversuchfahrzeug_VS2.jpg)

PSM (Krauss-Maffei Wegmann - Rheinmetall Landsysteme) - Puma

KMW (Krauss-Maffei Wegmann) - Puma

Army Recognition.com - PUMA Technical Data Sheet and Images

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Links to models of the Marder IFV/TAM Family of Vehicles built by Diethelm Berlage at Track-Link.net (hot-linking images is not allowed):

VCTP with Mine Roller

VCTP, UN in Croatia

VCLC rocket-launcher

VCA 155mm Howitzer

TAM / TH 301 Prototype

VCTM mortar carrier

VCI Marder 1A3

Marder KUKA M12 Project, 1998

TH301/TAM Tractor

The gallery containing all of Diethelm's Models at Track-Link.net

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I recall seeing some drawings in a German modelling magazine many years ago for an Infantry Fire Support Vehicle based on the Marder IFV that was armed with a 57mm auto-loading cannon, 7.62NATO machinegun in a turret that was very low profile. 

Other ideas for the Marder:

Turret from the M42 Duster to create a low-tech air defense vehicle. 
Armored logisitcs vehicle by removing the sides of the troop compartment and making a cargo bed.
Bradley IFV turret instead of the regular turret to make an updated IFV with integral ATGM capability.
 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 06:25:07 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2012, 10:37:37 AM »
<...>
I recall seeing some drawings in a German modelling magazine many years ago for an Infantry Fire Support Vehicle based on the Marder IFV that was armed with a 57mm auto-loading cannon, 7.62NATO machinegun in a turret that was very low profile.  <...>

That was the "Begleitpanzer 57" (escort tank 57). It was also to be equipped with ATGMs.
 Apparently a private venture, they found no customers. I think it's interesting that the concept was (kinda) revived with the Russian BMPT.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 10:46:22 AM »
What's the elevation of the stock ATGM mount?  I'm thinking of the crude way of simply replacing the MILAN launcher with a MANPADS.
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 01:44:56 PM »
<...>I recall seeing some drawings in a German modelling magazine many years ago for an Infantry Fire Support Vehicle based on the Marder IFV that was armed with a 57mm auto-loading cannon, 7.62NATO machinegun in a turret that was very low profile.  <...>
That was the "Begleitpanzer 57" (escort tank 57). It was also to be equipped with ATGMs.
Apparently a private venture, they found no customers. I think it's interesting that the concept was (kinda) revived with the Russian BMPT.

Yes indeed, that was the one.  I recall someone building a model of the thing and was hoping to find images of it on-line but so far no luck. 
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 02:28:06 PM »
Posted these on What-If a couple years back.





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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 02:31:18 PM »
VCTP also from Modell-Fan



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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 07:59:36 PM »
What's the elevation of the stock ATGM mount?  I'm thinking of the crude way of simply replacing the MILAN launcher with a MANPADS.


A good friend of mine was a Marder commander. I'll ask him when I see him the next time. But I don't think there is much in the way of elevation. The ATGM mount on the Marder is just a kind of clamp that fixes the Milan and associated bits by clamping the normal folded-up tripod to the vehicle. There are a couple of really good pics in THIS WALK-AROUND.  I also don't think the Milan launcher proper can elevate that much. With the way the ATGM mount fixed in place on the turret, I don't think there's much lateral movement either. Anything apart outside of 11-1 o'clock and you really have to twist yourself out of the hatch.
I just remember that the SOP for firing the Milan from the vehicle includes swinging the turret to the 11 o'clock position and depressing the 20mm gun all the way.

If you want to have the MANPADS power-operated from within the vehicle, I suppose the best bet is to fix a Stinger or two to the external MG3 mount on the turret.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 08:02:07 PM »
Moritz, did the Heer end up doing away with that external remote MG3 at the rear of the vehicle in the later variants?  That might be a place to put a RWS with a MANPADS attached.

Regards,

John
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 08:56:41 PM »
You can get a fairly good analogue of the VCTP in 1/72nd by just cross-kitting a Luchs Turret onto a Marder hull - Revell have done both vehicles.

Stalled project for a British Army fire-support version:


« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 08:59:07 PM by Weaver »
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 09:18:13 PM »
^ Neat!  :)

Moritz, did the Heer end up doing away with that external remote MG3 at the rear of the vehicle in the later variants?  <...>

Yup. They dropped that when they converted them to Marder 1A2 standard.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 11:09:52 PM »
Posted these on What-If a couple years back.

Thanks for sharing once again Jon.  Much appreciated. 
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 06:56:23 AM »
Posted these on What-If a couple years back.

a couple years back ?  Gee time flies when you're having fun , I thought it was only last year some time !

Now that marder with the Beer kegs at the back gives me ideas  8)

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 04:32:47 PM »
How about a dedicated SPAAG Marder?
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2012, 01:20:29 AM »
^ Here you go, Greg!  :)

One version with an M163 turret and one with the turret of an CV9040 AAV:



I find the one with the CV9040 turret especially nice to look at.

So much for the easily kitbashable (is that a word? If not, it should be!) options. I suppose you could also whif a Roland turret to incorporate some guns (instead of the SAM).
Or how about a Wildcat turret?

Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2012, 02:17:02 AM »
 :) :) :)
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 10:14:52 PM »
Would the Marder hull be capable of accommodating the 105mm gun turret from the M1128 Stryker Mobile Gun System?   
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 10:32:13 PM »
I don't see why not.  The Argentinians developed the TAM tank off the basic design and it's related to the Leopard 1 either way.

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John
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2012, 03:58:34 AM »
Jeffry: the experimental Thyssen/Henschel VTS-1 was a Marder hull with a 105mm RWS.
http://www.military-vehicle-photos.com/picture/number1762.asp

John: the Argies didn't really develop the TAM. 'Tanque Argentino Mediano' is just the Ejército Argentino's name for the licenced Thyssen-Henschel TH 301. </JMN mode>
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2012, 04:07:30 AM »
Jeffry: the experimental Thyssen/Henschel VTS-1 was a Marder hull with a 105mm RWS.
http://www.military-vehicle-photos.com/picture/number1762.asp


Thanks for providing the link/image.  That configuration certainly looks interesting with the elevated main gun.  The MGS turret would be a bit wider but still a possibility to make it fit in the confines of the hull. 
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2012, 04:08:34 AM »
Marder as a tank destroyer With fixed 120mm gun?
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2012, 04:16:34 AM »
Marder as a tank destroyer With fixed 120mm gun?
 

Gun forward and engine to the rear?  That could work but there are better and certainly much sturdier platforms for such a concept. 

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Hopefully I can find the right parts to eventually modify one of my Marder kits to create a mortar track. 
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2012, 06:24:24 AM »
John: the Argies didn't really develop the TAM. 'Tanque Argentino Mediano' is just the Ejército Argentino's name for the licenced Thyssen-Henschel TH 301. </JMN mode>

Whilst I'm aware that the original TAM was designed by Thyssen-Henschel, the TAM was produced in Argentina in seven variants I believe.  The TH-301 was a development of the original TAM design (initially designated TAM-4) differing in powerpack, fire control & other details.  With this in mind, one would suggest that the TH-301 is, in fact, a development of the TAM.

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2012, 08:12:07 AM »
the Stryker MGS turret wil "just" fit the Marder chassis !

I'm currently doing (an updated) Abrams version which was built.  Teledyne had 1/35th models of it on Abrams, Leopard1, Centurion -- the Centurion one was later built by Jordan.

The AFV Club MGS kit has a few issues re a wrong part number & several very fragile bits.

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2012, 04:46:56 PM »
Marder as a tank destroyer With fixed 120mm gun?
 

Gun forward and engine to the rear?  That could work but there are better and certainly much sturdier platforms for such a concept. 

Bah!  Practicality is optional around here ;)
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2012, 12:19:05 PM »
Marder as a tank destroyer With fixed 120mm gun?

That sounds very much like the Swedish UDES 11 concept.

In the other hemisphere, TAP was to be a tank derivative on the stretched VCA Palmaria hull.
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2012, 10:08:55 AM »
I rather like the look of the recent Rheinmetall IFV upgrade but there's not much of the original Marder left recognizable except the wheels and track. So, what's a modeller to do?

How about putting wheels underneath the remaining Marder upper hull?
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2012, 01:32:00 PM »
 :)
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2012, 08:10:48 AM »
Picking up the Marder SPAAG theme again, here's a model Diethelm Berlage (mentioned earlier in this thread) built of an actually proposed Marder SPAAG. Of course, it wasn't adopted.



On the left is a Marder in Barracuda netting and the thing without turret on the right is a gunnery range "referee tank".
I took the pic at the 6th DPMV Konvent (see more pics HERE).
Too bad we only dropped by Diethelm's display when he was already packing up, so I only got this pic. The Begleitpanzer he built was already stashed in the car. Chatted with him for a couple of minutes , though. Really nice guy.  :) Said he built forty(!) Marders so far.  :icon_surprised:

EDIT: Just found an actual pic of the Marder SPAAG!  :icon_surprised:

« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 08:14:55 AM by ChernayaAkula »
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Moritz

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2012, 08:14:33 AM »
In the other hemisphere, TAP was to be a tank derivative on the stretched VCA Palmaria hull.

Is it a real (as in on paper) proposal?  :icon_music:
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2012, 08:22:04 AM »
^ I think so. I think there's a pic of it in THIS BOOK. I'm not sure, though, and I don't remember whether it was just a drawing or a pic of a mock-up.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2012, 06:00:40 AM »
I wonder if the turret from the M24 Chaffee would fit onto the Marder? Or maybe the Sd.Kfz 234/2 Puma turret? This giveth me some ideas. :o
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2012, 10:23:43 AM »
Is it a real (as in on paper) proposal?  :icon_music:

Yes, a real project but no prototype (or mock-up AFAIK). The final variation had an up-armoured turret much like the Leopard 2A5. A rough translation:

"TAP (Tanque Argentino Pesado)

In the middle of the '80s, TAMSE began development of a TAM successor of the TAM for the '90s, the Tanque Argentino Pesado (Heavy Argentine Tank). TAP would incorporate 65% TAM components but would be better protected, have improved electronics, and a 120mm Reinmetall L/44 gun. TAP would have a lengthened chassis (with seven roadwheels instead of six) and a more powerful, domestically-produced engine if possible.

TAP would weigh in the order of the 51.5 tons. Despite the economic problems of the '80s, the TAP project advanced well. Unfortunately for TAMSE, the Exército Argentino showed no interest in TAP. TAMSE looked abroad for clients and Iran was interested (along with TAM and VCTP) but export permission was not granted. With no expectations of production, TAMSE then abandoned the TAP project."

Re: that Dragon SPAAG, does anyone know for certain what 30mm guns TAMSE was proposing?

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2012, 10:55:36 AM »
Actually its configuration sounds rather like that of the Merkava...

... "ambutank" TAP?  >:D
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2012, 01:52:50 AM »
I wonder if the turret from the M24 Chaffee would fit onto the Marder? Or maybe the Sd.Kfz 234/2 Puma turret? This giveth me some ideas. :o

Fitting the turret from the M24 Chaffee or maybe the turret from the Scimitar or Scorpion to create something more contemporary.  Or how about a Scorpion turret fitted with the 75mm gun from the M24 Chaffee?  All that needs to be done is to cut a hole large enough for the turret to fit and that should not be an issue. 

Now for something I just found this morning over on the Track-Link forums that was built by Diethelm Berlage based on a concept for a Canadian Marder called the CCV (Close Combat Vehicle).  Diethelm kitbashed a Marder with the Delco 25mm turret from the LAV/MOWAG Piranha to create his CCV which you can view at this link at the Track-Link forums: CCV Marten (Marder)

Track-Link will not allow hot-linking images so you have to go there to see the finished model. 

More of Diethelm's work can be seen at this link to his models in the Track-Link gallery
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 02:03:16 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2012, 06:51:18 AM »
Great to see it built! And Herr Berlage was right, the original retouched on CASR was based on an Argentinian VCTP hull.
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2014, 02:21:01 PM »
I rather like the look of the recent Rheinmetall IFV upgrade but there's not much of the original Marder left recognizable except the wheels and track. So, what's a modeller to do?

How about putting wheels underneath the remaining Marder upper hull?

The wheeled Marder looks great, at first I thought it was a Boxer with a Marder Turret, which raises an idea or two.

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2014, 04:43:00 AM »
How about a Marder as a dedicated anti-tank/anti personal vehicle with a turret akin to the Terminator BMPT?

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2014, 09:00:27 AM »
Firefighting versions in use by a German company:

AIRMATIC RED DIVISION Löschpanzer Scenario - bushfire fighting




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Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2014, 02:05:23 AM »
Is it a real (as in on paper) proposal?  :icon_music:

Yes, a real project but no prototype (or mock-up AFAIK). The final variation had an up-armoured turret much like the Leopard 2A5.

I am really inclined to wonder if it's to merely be a turret patterned after that of the Leopard 2 or it is to precisely be a licence-built Leopard 2 turret......
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2015, 10:29:28 PM »
Hello,
after show my Marder-collection here in the "physical models" now I show some project. First the argentinian Tam-tank. Some years long they will modernisation the TAM. Perhaps old turrets from german Leo 2 on longer TAM or chassis from the VCA. I check it with my models some years ago.








Sometimes it was the idea to put old Merkava-turreds on the TAM.






But the real is only a short-modernisation. The new tank called "TAM2c" (second generation). Oh yes, some parts look israeli. I will build this tank later.
But now I will finished these Marder-projects:

Marder APC "Marder evolution vehicle family":




And a test vehicle with a early lance-turret. It is the same system like in the PUMA


I hope, you like this,
Didi from germany

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2015, 04:19:34 AM »
Any plans t do some of the TAM developments, such as the VCLC:

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Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2015, 12:11:26 AM »
Any plans t do some of the TAM developments,


Plans? You mean my plan? You don´t see them:



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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2015, 04:42:35 AM »
Great stuff, Didi! I love the Lance turret conversion. Any idea of a name/designation for the RWS version?
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2015, 04:52:23 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2015, 04:45:18 PM »
Any idea of a name/designation for the RWS version?

You mean the weapon station on the APC? First I need it from Revell´s Boxer. Than I see, in real it is the "M151 Protector", and it is a seperate kit from AFV-club for their strykers.

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2015, 10:59:51 AM »
Diethelm: I meant the Marder variant that the M151 was mounted on ... but photos from EuroSatory 2012 clearly show 'MARDER APC' marked on the side of the vehicle ;)

So, with the OTO-turreted Marder MBT, this makes Rheinmetall's Marder Evolution Vehicle Family?
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2015, 04:22:46 PM »
How I know, the family contains 3 versions. The APC, MBT and the CCV. The CCV was only shown on the IDEX 2011(?). 
These Marders are not new tanks, only old tanks from stock and modernises. They are old A3 versions, not A5.
MBT


APC


CCV



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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2015, 06:17:47 AM »
Some cool Puma images:




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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2015, 09:37:03 PM »



All you need to do is run that one through a red filter (I don't have photoshop) & you've got yourself a Mars-scape! ;)
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2015, 08:31:40 AM »
Those are some great pictures of the Puma in motion. I really like the looks of it.

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2015, 09:42:16 AM »
All you need to do is run that one through a red filter (I don't have photoshop) & you've got yourself a Mars-scape! ;)


How's this?

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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2015, 10:57:08 AM »
Pretty good! :D :)
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2015, 02:18:43 AM »
Part of the German contingent in the Mars Wars...
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2015, 06:42:11 AM »
The CCV was only shown on the IDEX 2011(?).

If the Lance RC turret (on the Marder Evolution CCV) gets replaced by the manned Lance turret, would the passenger capacity be affected?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2015, 12:46:38 AM »
I know nothing exact about the tower. I don´t know whether it contains technology or is only one dummy. However, it is the same system like with the Puma. I have finished some Marder last weeks. See more at "physical models".






Didi

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2015, 12:33:48 AM »
New photos in "physical models". The indonesian TNI have Marder A3 since september 2013.


Didi

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2015, 04:00:14 PM »
Hello Friends,
I search in south-american community and found photos from another new TAM. I show you. It looks like a "baby- merkava".









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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2015, 03:48:18 AM »
Nice find.  Any details on the nature of the upgrade?
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Offline dy031101

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How simplified is VCTP compared to Marder?
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2015, 10:01:58 AM »
Another question: the Argentine VCTP is said to be a simplified version of the Marder; I know that VCTP does not have Marder's ATGM launcher, but is there anything else that the contemporary Marder has but VCTP doesn't?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: How simplified is VCTP compared to Marder?
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2015, 11:58:01 AM »
Another question: the Argentine VCTP is said to be a simplified version of the Marder; I know that VCTP does not have Marder's ATGM launcher, but is there anything else that the contemporary Marder has but VCTP doesn't?


I'd suggest that it had no night vision equipment, cheaper radios, no datalink equipment.


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Re: How simplified is VCTP compared to Marder?
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2015, 03:56:11 AM »
[no datalink equipment.


What datalink does the Marder have?
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2015, 04:53:17 PM »
I'm kinda thinking- since Tanque Argentino Pesado uses a stretched TAM chassis and apparently a Leopard 2 turret, and Vickers combined their MBT Mk.4 turret with Leopard 2 chassis to create the Vickers MBT Mk.7..... perhaps the TAP chassis can also be adopted to take the turret from Vickers MBT Mk.4 or even Challenger 2?

I know- need to overcome politics first.......
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 09:46:01 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2015, 09:41:55 AM »
This picture got me thinking......

I am currently thinking up a fictional military force that uses Marder 1A5 armed with LANCE turret and later Puma as their definitive IFV but requires an interim Marder 1 variant pending the availability of LANCE turret.

Inspired by Marderman's Marten...... does anyone know if the LAV-25 turret would have that availability advantage, and if such an advantage can translate to the LAV-30 turret (because it can share ammunition with the LANCE Turret) as it is designed and manufactured by the same company?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 10:00:25 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2016, 12:22:04 PM »
The variant armed with AMX-13 turret that Marderman was talking about?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2016, 02:16:49 AM »
Interesting...that might need to be built.
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2016, 10:48:11 AM »
... does anyone know if the LAV-25 turret would have that availability advantage, and if such an advantage can translate to the LAV-30 turret (because it can share ammunition with the LANCE Turret) as it is designed and manufactured by the same company?

If you're asking when the Delco turret for the LAV-25 was first available, it was around 1983.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2016, 08:27:04 PM »
The FL turret looks nicer on that than on anything I have ever seen it fitted to.

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2016, 11:08:48 PM »
I'm fairly sure Marderman has already built a Marder with the FL turret. Or at least has got one in-progress. Just not sure whether he's already posted pics of them here.

EDIT: Teaser!

« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 11:25:23 PM by ChernayaAkula »
Cheers,
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2016, 04:27:37 PM »
Hello,
Yes, I don´t show this tank here. But you can see him in my  Marder, Marder, Marder-thread in "physical models". Now I do it here:




And this is the real vehicle:


And this can be a modern FL-turret:




And another project on Marder:


And I found this variant. I think, it was a polish mortar-turret. The photo was from the MSPO 2013.


But now I work about this vehicle:









greetings,
Didi


Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2016, 11:35:06 PM »
... does anyone know if the LAV-25 turret would have that availability advantage, and if such an advantage can translate to the LAV-30 turret (because it can share ammunition with the LANCE Turret) as it is designed and manufactured by the same company?

If you're asking when the Delco turret for the LAV-25 was first available, it was around 1983.

I'm thinking more about the production capacity and ability to fulfill urgent orders of Delco v.s. those of Rheinmetall from mid-1990s onward.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 02:02:18 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline apophenia

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2016, 01:52:32 PM »
Delco: Probably the Marines would get dibs for their LAV-25 orders. Apparently spares supplies weren't very impressive early on either.

Didi: Are you going to build that Marder with the Israeli 60 mm HVMS turret?
BTW, the Polish vehicle mounts the MSK-HSW Rak 120mm breech auto-loading mortar (also seen on the 8x8 Rosomak).
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2016, 08:06:20 PM »
Marder with HVMS? From Verlinden there No.370 a HVMS turret. But that is something different. I wait, maybe there are times the turret in plastic. Lately, many Israeli armour come.
The mortar? Yes, I have seen photos on the polish Rosomak. The kit come from IBG. I hope other versions will come later.

But at the moment I'm concentrating on this vehicle:



Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2016, 08:17:57 PM »
Hello,
my Resin-conversion is finished:










Didi

Offline LemonJello

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2016, 08:47:26 PM »
Nice!

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #74 on: February 12, 2016, 02:53:37 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #75 on: February 12, 2016, 07:06:46 AM »
1:35
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2016, 08:11:12 PM »
On the "Eurosatory" in Paris a new "Marder" was shown. The name is "LYNX".
http://dtrmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Lynx-IFV-Special-Supplement.pdf

Didi

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2016, 03:02:46 AM »
Thanks for posting the link to the pdf brochure Didi.  That is almost what I had imagined the Marder to look like with the Puma turret. 
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #78 on: October 20, 2016, 03:11:16 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2016, 05:37:58 PM »
I have a photos in my archive from the same Marder.

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2016, 05:47:38 PM »
Last Weekend I have a drive with a Marder in the "Fursten-forest", here in Germany. I have drive the A3. The other one ist a A2 with a A3-turret. It was an old driver-school-verhicle, they give him the A3-turret.


















And now some videos:








Didi

« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 03:27:22 PM by Marderman »

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2016, 10:18:27 PM »
Cool! 8)
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2016, 02:02:25 AM »
 :)
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2016, 04:37:07 AM »
Random cool picture:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2016, 10:36:19 AM »




Marder 2 Prototype


Marder VTS-1 - Tank Destroyer


Hypothetical Marder 35 Mm Ifv
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 03:38:01 PM by Rickshaw »

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2016, 03:10:26 PM »
Hey Rickshaw,
One picture is wrong: Is is not Marder 2 Prototype. It is a "update" for the Marder 1A3 with a Kuka 30mm turret. It was testet in swiss 1998.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 03:13:32 PM by Marderman »

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2016, 03:43:06 PM »
Thanks, now fixed.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2016, 03:57:50 PM »

Begleitpanzer 35 with HOT ATGW



DF 105 Combat Tank



begleitpanzer 57 with TOW ATGW


Marder I with heightened roof and 35mm gun turret.


Marder 2

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2016, 10:40:15 AM »
Turret for the hypothetical Marder with 35mm gun:


Offline dy031101

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2016, 02:27:43 PM »
Begleitpanzer 35 with HOT ATGW

Question- the model seems to have retained the passengers' gun ports.  Is the Begleitpanzer 35 still an infantry fighting vehicle, or would the 35mm cannon have reduced this AFV's troop capacity to just a couple of scouts?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 01:16:08 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #90 on: October 27, 2016, 04:13:10 PM »
I've just realised that in all this time I haven't put up any pictures of my only Marder build, which happens to be my avatar, & is more Sci Fi than Whif but, well, you know ... it's still based on a Marder 1A2.

It's an old build & not that well finished, so I'm thinking of stripping it down & using it with my new Marder 1A2 to build a composite, larger vehicle & giving it a better paint job & weathering.

Here it is:

















"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #91 on: October 28, 2016, 01:03:03 AM »
It is a very cool vehicle. Civilized Marder.  With ABC decontaminate in the rear.

Offline Steve Blazo

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #92 on: October 28, 2016, 02:47:56 AM »
A very old build of a Marder as Hover APC


And a liitle off subject, a Luchs A/C with Leo turret as a Hovertank

As I walk through the valley of death,
I have no fear, because I am the meanest mother*ucker in the whole valley.
- Gen. George S. Patton

Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #93 on: October 28, 2016, 03:34:45 AM »
Love that  Luchs/Leo hovertank ... especially the chain-slung add-on armour  :-*
Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

Offline Gingie

  • The LAV sausage-maker…goes nice with a home made beer I understand
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2016, 12:37:28 AM »
Steve - how did you make the rubber skirt / bladder thingy on the Marder

Offline Steve Blazo

  • The man likes white plastic...weird.
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #95 on: October 31, 2016, 08:27:14 PM »
It’s Crayola Model Magic. It’s easy to work with, and you do not need to heat. Roll on a clean flat surface. A little water on your finger and you can hide most seems. It does shrink when it drys, could cause cracks at corners. I let it dry and flat coat before painting.  The other pictured model has it as a skirt too, just covered it with wet tissue paper to cover the cracks.


As I walk through the valley of death,
I have no fear, because I am the meanest mother*ucker in the whole valley.
- Gen. George S. Patton

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #96 on: November 03, 2016, 06:41:08 PM »
A "new" Marder, on indodefence this days. It is the "Hitfact"-turret from the centauro.





I check it with a model:




Now I´m waiting for more photos. The Rear?

Didi

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #97 on: November 03, 2016, 10:29:32 PM »
Cool! looks good! 8) :)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #98 on: November 04, 2016, 02:58:24 AM »

Now I´m waiting for more photos. The Rear?


If only you had told me a day earlier - I have a team at IndoDefence.  I might have been able to ask one of them to take a bunch of photos for you.  Let me check if there is still a chance for today.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #99 on: November 04, 2016, 03:02:00 AM »
Another view of the VTZ-1:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #100 on: November 04, 2016, 03:05:02 AM »





All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #101 on: November 04, 2016, 03:22:22 PM »
Yesterday I found some pictures from the "Indodefence"- Marder:


« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 05:54:32 PM by Marderman »

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #102 on: November 04, 2016, 10:37:34 PM »
The one on the right in the lower pictures looks to be in an Australian (style) camouflage scheme! ???
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 11:22:25 PM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #103 on: November 04, 2016, 11:15:32 PM »
The one on the right in the lower pictuures looks to be in an Australian (style) camouflage scheme! ???

I don't even think it looks like a Marder although IIRC Indonesia seems to have an indigenous tracked AFV in development?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #104 on: November 07, 2016, 03:12:28 PM »

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #105 on: November 07, 2016, 03:13:53 PM »
The one on the right in the lower pictuures looks to be in an Australian (style) camouflage scheme! ???

I don't even think it looks like a Marder although IIRC Indonesia seems to have an indigenous tracked AFV in development?



Kaplan-20

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #106 on: November 07, 2016, 07:47:43 PM »
Hello,
the last days I have some work with this "new" Marder:







Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #107 on: November 08, 2016, 04:07:36 AM »
Kaplan-20

Good find Rickshaw  :)  I assume that this Kaplan-20 is intended as a replacement for FNSS'  Bradley-based ACV-19 IFV family.
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Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2016, 01:56:21 PM »
Kaplan-20

Good find Rickshaw  :)  I assume that this Kaplan-20 is intended as a replacement for FNSS'  Bradley-based ACV-19 IFV family.

I understood the ACV-19 IFV was developed from the M113 based  ACV-15, not the M2/M3 Bradley.

Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2016, 04:56:23 AM »
I understood the ACV-19 IFV was developed from the M113 based  ACV-15, not the M2/M3 Bradley.

I bow to your superior knowledge -- I'd never heard of FNSS' Kaplan (or the Otocar Tuplar) until the other day.

Still, the Kaplan-20 track system is certainly a dead ringer for the Bradley's - mid road wheel gap and all!
Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #110 on: December 13, 2016, 04:21:36 PM »
Hello,
Yesterday I can read that Jordan got the first Marder from Germany. They are supposed to get about 50 tanks. Old Marder A3 from german stocks. In the internet I found these photos:








Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #111 on: December 15, 2016, 08:36:37 AM »
Thanks for that Didi. The Jordanians have done weird and wonderful stuff to their second-hand Scorpions. I look forward to seeing what they can come up with for the Marder  :)
Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

Offline Marderman

  • Guess what he builds lots of...
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #112 on: December 22, 2016, 05:42:05 PM »
I find another photo.


« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 03:38:34 PM by Marderman »

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #114 on: December 24, 2016, 07:17:54 PM »
Packing repacking and I found a started Marder with a LAV 25 turret in the box with the bits.

Offline Gingie

  • The LAV sausage-maker…goes nice with a home made beer I understand
  • Has been to Tatooine...
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #115 on: December 26, 2016, 03:00:10 AM »
Packing repacking and I found a started Marder with a LAV 25 turret in the box with the bits.

I love it when that happens. Sounds like you have a Canadian HIAV in the making :-)

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #116 on: December 26, 2016, 05:32:06 PM »
That suggests I have a LAV 25 with a marder Turret somewhere too.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #117 on: January 03, 2017, 12:40:18 PM »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2017, 05:05:02 AM »
Packing repacking and I found a started Marder with a LAV 25 turret in the box with the bits.


Have you seen Didi's version? http://www.track-link.com/gallery/8487/6

And then there's this: Missing-Lynx > Discussion Groups > Constructive Comments Canadian Marder (future Weapons) built by Chris Jerrett






***fixed html link - jjf :)


« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 06:22:16 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #119 on: May 06, 2017, 04:31:51 AM »
Different sort of camouflage...or add on armour:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #120 on: May 06, 2017, 11:06:49 AM »
Good Cam but bad armour.   Going to be a hell of a lot of big splinters flying around if they get hit with anything.   The crew and passengers are going to have to be all inside when that happens. 

Offline Marderman

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Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #121 on: June 18, 2018, 03:31:26 PM »
Eurosatory 2018. After the Lynx KF31 in 2016 now a new vehicle based on Marder, the Lynx KF 41.
https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/de/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/vehicle_systems/armoured_tracked_vehicles/lynx/index.php

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: Marder IFV, TAM, and Puma IFV
« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2018, 01:26:50 PM »
I'm kinda thinking- since Tanque Argentino Pesado uses a stretched TAM chassis and apparently a Leopard 2 turret.......


Inspired by the advent of the EMBT demonstrator...... maybe a TAP that uses the Leclerc turret instead of the Leopard 2 one?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 01:28:30 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?