Author Topic: A Civilized BV222  (Read 14892 times)

Offline Madhatter

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A Civilized BV222
« on: November 25, 2014, 09:51:48 AM »
hi guys

Well, after having trouble finding inspiration on what to build next, I posted the question to you all
It seems that a civil version of the BV-222 was the most popular choice, and I like the idea too. So that's what I'm doing now
I've decided to add cabin lighting and detail and also I will motorize all 6 props. It will be displayed in flight as well. If I find the right figures, I'll even add some passengers.

So where am I up to - not far, but in my defense, I did have to find the right way to motorize it. Upon looking through my drawer of stuff, I found just what I was looking for - 6 miniature motors that fit - as it turns out - just beautifully between the leading edge of the wing and the engine cowling.
I'm using telescoping brass tube as a prop shaft to maximize strength.





The wings have a plastic strip covering the bottom of the gun mounting on the wings acting as a plug and a small ball of Milliput was used to fill it in. It has since been sanded and re-scribed since taking these pics. The camera battery went flat so I haven't been able to update them since



I've decided to make the interior look "opulent" by going for a plush red velvet kind of color  Wine Red in this case. I am right now casting (a very first for me) some more of the upstairs chairs to go in the passenger compartment. The chairs themselves actually look pretty comfy and are ideal for the interior. Once the warm white SMD's do their thing, the whole space will look quite relaxed. The colors are appropriate for that time period



I am still on the look out for the right scheme. I like the combination of white and bare metal. So it would be black on the bottom, white in the middle and bare metal up top - or the other way around with white on the top and bare metal in the middle. Or just plain white or BM?...with a stripe running through the middle?  :-\
Any ideas would be welcomed
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2014, 10:12:55 AM »
LOVE the idea!!!!

As for colors, the white, bare metal and black scheme sounds just fine.  Black for the bottom of the floats and hull and white for the upper surfaces to help reflect heat.  In other words if you viewed it from above, the whole fuselage should be a solid white shape so the color would carry down the sides a bit.  Add some black panels for engine exhaust, wing walks, and anti-glare panels for the cockpit.

PLEASE continue  :)
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2014, 10:51:08 AM »
The white in top might help in mitigating heat absorption during day time flights in the warmer parts of the planet like Africa, the Caribbean, South America, or, Australia :)

The red interior reminds me of the wood paneling that was popular at one time with rich red-brown colored wood being one of the more popular types. 
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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2014, 01:52:47 AM »
The white in top might help in mitigating heat absorption during day time flights in the warmer parts of the planet like Africa, the Caribbean, South America, or, Australia :)

The red interior reminds me of the wood paneling that was popular at one time with rich red-brown colored wood being one of the more popular types.


I agree.  Maybe do something similar to this Latécočre 631:



Maybe do it in something like Aerolíneas Argentinas markings flying the Germany-Buenos Aires route or Luft Hansa doing similar?
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2014, 06:51:16 AM »
This is a great idea and it looks like you're off to an excellent start!

Hard to argue with Mr GTX's suggestion. Seems an absolute natural!

Brian da Basher

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2014, 07:38:52 AM »
I do like that Aerolíneas Argentinas scheme. I have been having troubles locating a colour image of a 1940's Lufthansa aircraft that doesn't have a friggin swaz sticker on the tail. Has anyone got a colour image of a normal - non-Nzai plane from the late 40's?
If I can't find a decent image, I may well go with the Aerolíneas Argentinas version - although I would be hard pressed to find a plausable back story for it
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2014, 07:53:37 AM »
I did a google search for Lufthansa DC-3, assuming it would bracket WWII:

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=310519

Also, the first Lufthansa plane:



« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 08:00:24 AM by Frank3k »

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2014, 08:18:01 AM »
thanks Frank

The plane in the link is from 1963 according to the site. Was Lufthansa around in the 1940's? I can only surmise they were but from all the images I have, the Nazi symbol is on the tails. I guess that after the war ended and the Nazi's were defeated that they then removed the sawz sticker and replaced it with a logo of some kind.
That one in the below image - that can't be their very first plane is it?? An American DC9?! I would have thought they have their  own aircraft to use before buying a yank tank. Mind you, my aviation history leaves a lot to be desired....
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 09:21:04 AM »
The current incarnation of Lufthansa was founded in 1953; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa

However, Deutsche Luft Hansa A.G. was founded in 1926 & disbanded in 1945; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Luft_Hansa

The article(s) state that there is no legal connection between the 2 incarnations.

There are images, old & new, hope they help.
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Offline finsrin

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2014, 11:05:56 AM »
So much like where you are going with this civilian build :)
And motorized yet !
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 02:05:27 PM by finsrin »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 11:49:07 AM »
From what Old Wombat posted, it looks like this would work for markings:


At least for tail markings that had no National Socialist identification.  That "old" link has others with similar markings.

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 12:55:57 PM »
that works perfectly I think. Who makes decals for this era in time? I'll Google that instead of just being lazy  ;)

After looking at a large amount of pictures on the net, it looks like pretty much all civilian airliners back then were finshied in bare metal. So would doing this in White and silver be not quite right?
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Offline jcf

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2014, 03:34:54 PM »
D-AQUI did indeed originally fly with the swastika on the tail, the same codes appear today
on the restored aircraft. Without the swastika flag.


http://www.dlbs.de/en/Fleet/Junkers-JU-52/Timeline.php

If doing a civil aircraft from the Nazi period, from July 1933 to 1945, yer pretty much stuck
with the red flag and swastika on the tail. That's why the Danish and Brazilian schemes for
the Fw 200 have tended to be popular, ditto non-German inter-war schemes for the Ju 52.

Most Luft Hansa aircraft were finished in silber-grau paint, flying boats of various countries used
anodizing or aluminum lacquers/enamels. Dornier and HfB/B-V used paint. Shorts used anodizing
and a coating of lanolin, Boeing used anodizing and paint, Martin and Sikorsky generally used paint.
Straight bare metal didn't work well for waterborne aircraft.

The Germans didn't control their own airspace post-war, so it's likely that it would have been a non-German
entity that would have taken over and operated a BV 222 airliner. The Argenitne possibility makes sense
for several reasons.  ;)
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 05:14:17 PM »
Oh thanks for that awesome bit of information -that's incredibly helpful :) thank you so much
I also didn't know that about Germans not owning their own airspace, so that helps me with schemes.
Would an Air France one be to outrageous do you think?
Will have to schedule in some major time with Google I think. Lots to think about....
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2014, 05:49:59 PM »
Dare I suggest Qantas? ???

As Qantas Imperial Airways (partnership with Imperial Airways) they actually operated flying boats from 1934 to 1943 (& post-war, I think).





History.

Images.
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2014, 07:09:00 PM »
Funny you should mention Qantas because I also had thought of them, but I couldn't come up with a decent and plausible explanation on how they would have gotten hold of a BV222
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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 07:14:10 PM »
Funny you should mention Qantas because I also had thought of them, but I couldn't come up with a decent and plausible explanation on how they would have gotten hold of a BV222

Loving this idea and model, been away from the forums too long.

WRT Qantas getting hold of a BV222, I seem to vaguely recall that some Dornier Flying Clogs were captured from the Netherland East Indies area (VERY vague here), so if the BV222 was used instead of the Dorniers then maybe ... [cue someone with more knowledge please]

Failing that they may have used them on a Berlin - Tokyo run over water (via Rome maybe?). All you need is one runing into trouble near British controlled India, then a gift to Qantas for the Australia - London run done by Catalinas ...

Ciao
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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2014, 01:53:08 AM »
One could always use the simple scenario of WWII not happening - say Hitler had a stroke in 1936 at the sight of Jesse Owens victory in the 100m Sprint ;).  Have the regime either gradually crumble or perhaps take a more moderate tone thereafter.  This than leave the BV222, which was initiated in 1936, simply be a long range, luxury flying boat able to be acquired by anyone.
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Offline KiwiZac

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2014, 06:03:38 AM »
I'm liking the idea of this one, especially with the effort you're going to in terms of motors. Very cool!

I always love seeing civvy stuff.
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Offline jcf

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2014, 03:08:16 AM »
Funny you should mention Qantas because I also had thought of them, but I couldn't come up with a decent and plausible explanation on how they would have gotten hold of a BV222

Loving this idea and model, been away from the forums too long.

WRT Qantas getting hold of a BV222, I seem to vaguely recall that some Dornier Flying Clogs were captured from the Netherland East Indies area (VERY vague here), so if the BV222 was used instead of the Dorniers then maybe ... [cue someone with more knowledge please]

Failing that they may have used them on a Berlin - Tokyo run over water (via Rome maybe?). All you need is one runing into trouble near British controlled India, then a gift to Qantas for the Australia - London run done by Catalinas ...

Ciao
Former Dutch Dornier Do-24s (it was originally designed to a Dutch requirement) escaped to Australia and were then operated by Oz, rather than the BV 138 Flying Clog.
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Offline jcf

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2014, 03:14:10 AM »
Oh thanks for that awesome bit of information -that's incredibly helpful :) thank you so much
I also didn't know that about Germans not owning their own airspace, so that helps me with schemes.
Would an Air France one be to outrageous do you think?
Will have to schedule in some major time with Google I think. Lots to think about....

Air France actually makes sense as they had the requirement and their own large transport projects,
the Latecoere was not the only project, had been delayed by the war, even though some work had
continued under the Germans and they had flown a couple of the prototypes in German markings.
So a BV 222 refurbished could possibly have been used for route proving etc.
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline raafif

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2014, 04:29:07 AM »
Ital-Argentinus - Rome to Sth America replacing the Italian S-55s ?
Is there a large lake near Rome for them ?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2014, 06:17:23 AM »
Ital-Argentinus - Rome to Sth America replacing the Italian S-55s ?
Is there a large lake near Rome for them ?
Or fly based out of Naples harbor?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2014, 08:11:55 AM »
Funny you should mention Qantas because I also had thought of them, but I couldn't come up with a decent and plausible explanation on how they would have gotten hold of a BV222

Early post-war.

Aussie pilots find & "acquire" one & fly it home, selling/giving(=having-it-appropriated-by-the-government) it to Qantas on their return.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2014, 10:56:42 AM »
This is a great project: going to be fantastic with the motors. 8)

Re paint, Jon beat me to it: bare metal and water don't mix, so silver paint would be more likely. White topsides to reflect heat is logical.

Re how to get one post-war: Spain bought a fleet of Do.24s from Germany and operated them into the 1970s in the SAR role, so there's a possible story. Say Spain also bought some Bv.222s but found them too expensive to operate in the SAR role, so CASA converted them and sold them off to airlines. A Portuguese airline operating them to the Azores or a Spanish airline operating them to the Canaries would be kinda believable.


I agree.  Maybe do something similar to this Latécočre 631:




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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2014, 06:03:36 PM »
Wow, this has certainly generated some interest. Thanks for all the ideas guys.
I think I'll go for the Air France scheme as shown above and by GTX. It is rather striking isn't it.
Now all I'll have to do is somehow paint the blue stripes. I would go for decals but I don't have a printer nor decal paper or even the right program to do them on. So I'll do it the hard way of course :)
I've just looked at the finished molds for the chairs and the roof and from what I can see, they look ok. The real test will be when I mix and pour the resin. I've never done this before, so I'm not take any pictures to prevent serious public shame.
I'll have some pics for you next week once I've actually done something on it
Thanks again for your thoughts and ideas guys
Keep em coming ;)
MH
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Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2014, 01:39:38 AM »
I was thinking to do one up as a Flying Waterbomber, like the MArtin Mars scheme:
http://www.orpheusweb.co.uk/vicsmith/Pictures/Mars3.jpeg


I like the airliner concept more.

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Offline jcf

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2014, 03:26:11 AM »
The BV 222 was a little smaller than the SNCASE SE-200 so would fit in as an extemporized replacement
for that project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCASE_SE.200

http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/se200.pdf



http://www.airwar.ru/enc/sww2/se200.html

I have the Docavia book Les Pacqebots Volants about the French trans-atlantic flying
boats which has lots of photos, including some colour shots of the 631, if you want more
info about paint schemes etc. The blue stripes and seahorse was not the only scheme the
631 wore.
Cheers
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And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2014, 07:04:52 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?



(OK, they're not flying boats, but all of the TAA flying boat images I could find were on image protected sites)

Ooh! Just found these!




Or Ansett?






And as to how Australia could have acquired one (well, 3, actually);

From Wikipedia
Quote
Postwar

Three BV 222s were captured and subsequently operated by Allied forces: C-011, C-012, and C-013. C-012, captured at Sřrreisa in Norway after the war along with V2, was flown by Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown from Norway to the RAF station at Calshot in 1946, with RAF serial number "VP501". After testing at Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment at Felixstowe it was assigned to No. 201 Squadron RAF, who operated it up to 1947, when it was scrapped.

C-011 and C-013 were captured by US forces at the end of World War II. On August 15 and again on August 20, 1945 LT Cmdr Richard Schreder of the US Navy performed test flights along with the German crew of one of the BV 222 aircraft that had been acquired by the US. In two flights resulting in a total flight time of 38 minutes they experienced 4 engine fires. While many spare engines were available they were of substandard quality due to the lack of quality alloys near the end of the war, and caught fire easily. Since the aircraft was unairworthy with these engines, the aircraft was supposedly taken out to open water and sunk by a Navy Destroyer.

Other reports indicate the US captured aircraft were flown or shipped to the US. Convair acquired one for evaluation at the Naval Air Station Patuxent River, the intensive studies leading to the hull design of their Model 117 which in turn led to the R3Y Tradewind. Their subsequent fate is unknown.

The V2 aircraft briefly wore US markings in 1946. Strangely the V2 aircraft had identification markings given to her from the original V5 aircraft for Operation Schatzgräber. V2 was later scuttled by the British who filled her with BV 222 spare parts from the base at Ilsvika to weigh her down. V2 was towed to a position between Fagervika and Monk's Island where it is thought she now rests perfectly preserved on the seabed, owing to low oxygen levels in the water. There are plans to raise and restore this aircraft.


What if, instead of being sunk by the USN, C-011 & C-013 were sold by the US to Australia. Australia then acquires V2 & the Ilsvika spares from the British. Then, with re-built engines (or US/British replacements), they're used for transport to PNG & the South & Central Pacific islands.

(I, personally, like the TAA "Sunbird" scheme on the Catalina.)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 07:20:40 AM by Old Wombat »
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Offline finsrin

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2014, 07:13:28 AM »
You guys are coming up with great bunch of flying boat pictures and livery possibilities :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2014, 07:52:32 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?





As an aside, Aircraft in Miniature are about to release a Drover in both 1/72 & 1/48 scale under their Rug Rat brand

http://www.aim72.co.uk/page5.html

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2014, 08:37:05 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?



(OK, they're not flying boats, but all of the TAA flying boat images I could find were on image protected sites)

Ooh! Just found these!




Or Ansett?






And as to how Australia could have acquired one (well, 3, actually);

From Wikipedia
Quote
Postwar

Three BV 222s were captured and subsequently operated by Allied forces: C-011, C-012, and C-013. C-012, captured at Sřrreisa in Norway after the war along with V2, was flown by Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown from Norway to the RAF station at Calshot in 1946, with RAF serial number "VP501". After testing at Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment at Felixstowe it was assigned to No. 201 Squadron RAF, who operated it up to 1947, when it was scrapped.

C-011 and C-013 were captured by US forces at the end of World War II. On August 15 and again on August 20, 1945 LT Cmdr Richard Schreder of the US Navy performed test flights along with the German crew of one of the BV 222 aircraft that had been acquired by the US. In two flights resulting in a total flight time of 38 minutes they experienced 4 engine fires. While many spare engines were available they were of substandard quality due to the lack of quality alloys near the end of the war, and caught fire easily. Since the aircraft was unairworthy with these engines, the aircraft was supposedly taken out to open water and sunk by a Navy Destroyer.

Other reports indicate the US captured aircraft were flown or shipped to the US. Convair acquired one for evaluation at the Naval Air Station Patuxent River, the intensive studies leading to the hull design of their Model 117 which in turn led to the R3Y Tradewind. Their subsequent fate is unknown.

The V2 aircraft briefly wore US markings in 1946. Strangely the V2 aircraft had identification markings given to her from the original V5 aircraft for Operation Schatzgräber. V2 was later scuttled by the British who filled her with BV 222 spare parts from the base at Ilsvika to weigh her down. V2 was towed to a position between Fagervika and Monk's Island where it is thought she now rests perfectly preserved on the seabed, owing to low oxygen levels in the water. There are plans to raise and restore this aircraft.


What if, instead of being sunk by the USN, C-011 & C-013 were sold by the US to Australia. Australia then acquires V2 & the Ilsvika spares from the British. Then, with re-built engines (or US/British replacements), they're used for transport to PNG & the South & Central Pacific islands.

(I, personally, like the TAA "Sunbird" scheme on the Catalina.)


Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie - hahahaha - nothing wrong with that Wombat :)

Man - your making it harder for me to choose a scheme. Just when I thought I had one in mind you come along and show me those - now I'm having a rethink for the 10th time now :)
Don't get me wrong - I am certainly not complaining at all. I'm just annoyed at my own inability to choose a design I like and stick with it
The back story for an Aussie version that you've given certainly works for me.
I was seriously thinking of doing an Air-France version - if only because in reality, that would be the closest country to Germany that would most likely to have benefitted from such an aircraft. But looking at the flying boats operated by Ansett, Qantas and TAA, it's almost too hard to resist the temptation to go for an Aussie version.
It's a shame Air New Zealand didn't operate flying boats or I would have gone with that. How cool would a BV 222 look in the modern day Air NZ Black scheme as worn by their new 787!
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2014, 09:50:44 AM »
I forgot C-12! :o

We could have bought her in 1947, instead of the RAF scrapping her! :)

So that's 4! ;D

I figure they could be used on routes operating out of Brisbane/Sydney which would incorporate the following island groups;

Island Group - Possible waypoints
New Caledonia - Noumea
Vanuatu - Port Vila
Tuvalu (fmrly Ellice Is.) - Funafuti
Kiribati (fmrly Gilbert Is.) - Tarawa
Papua/New Guinea - Bouganville (Arawa), New Ireland (Kavieng), New Britain (Rabaul), Lae, Alotau, Port Moresby

A BV.222 leased to New Zealand could operate the Kermadec Is., Tonga, Tokelau, Cook Is., Niue run.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2014, 02:48:39 AM »

It's a shame Air New Zealand didn't operate flying boats or I would have gone with that.


You were saying?

Air New Zealand originated in 1940 as Tasman Empire Airways Limited (TEAL), a flying boat company operating trans-Tasman flights between New Zealand and Australia. TEAL became wholly owned by the New Zealand government in 1965, whereupon it was renamed Air New Zealand.  The inaugural service from Auckland to Sydney on 30 April 1940 was flown by Aotearoa, one of its two Short S30 flying boats.



And BTW, whilst they don't appear to have decals for the TEAL S30 (yet), Old Model Decals do have decals for the Catalinas and other platforms that could be adapted onto a TEAL BV222…just saying. ;)

Also. as I said earlier, I still wouldn't rule out an option that doesn't involve WWII at all.
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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2014, 02:49:54 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?





As an aside, Aircraft in Miniature are about to release a Drover in both 1/72 & 1/48 scale under their Rug Rat brand

http://www.aim72.co.uk/page5.html


I can't wait!!!
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2014, 07:22:10 AM »

It's a shame Air New Zealand didn't operate flying boats or I would have gone with that.


You were saying?

Air New Zealand originated in 1940 as Tasman Empire Airways Limited (TEAL), a flying boat company operating trans-Tasman flights between New Zealand and Australia. TEAL became wholly owned by the New Zealand government in 1965, whereupon it was renamed Air New Zealand.  The inaugural service from Auckland to Sydney on 30 April 1940 was flown by Aotearoa, one of its two Short S30 flying boats.



And BTW, whilst they don't appear to have decals for the TEAL S30 (yet), Old Model Decals do have decals for the Catalinas and other platforms that could be adapted onto a TEAL BV222…just saying. ;)

Also. as I said earlier, I still wouldn't rule out an option that doesn't involve WWII at all.


I forgot all about TEAL. I was of the age when Air NZ was NAC when I took my first flight in a 737-100/200.
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2014, 10:17:04 AM »
update time

Motors are in and so far so good. All 6 work perfectly so that's a good start!





and my very first ever attempt at casting my own pieces:



I need to talk to a mate of mine who is a brilliant caster to find out what I am doing wrong and how to get better copies.

Sorry for the minimal update - I did have more pics but the camera had died while uploading some images. Will post them later

Thanks for looking
MH
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2014, 10:51:49 AM »
MH, I'm not a resin casting expert by any means (I mean seriously not!) but it looks to me that it may be because you're trying to cast them like injection moulded plastic.

I think that if you cut off the sprue & clean up the fronts of the chairs, then glue the sprue to the bottom of the chairs (with the narrow "neck" removed). Then, when you have poured the (latex?) mould & it has set, cut an "X" out from each sprue attchment to remove the chairs, or preform it by using styrene sheet glued to the sprues & the bases of the chairs.

This way, I believe, any bubbles will rise to the surface when you pour the resin & will be at the bottom of the chair, where they can be more easily fixed or ignored.

Alternately, you could glue them to a piece of large-ish rectangular section styrene rod, via styrene blocks slightly smaller than the base of the chairs, which should allow any bubbles to rise completely out of the part.

But that's just me, who has never done any resin casting in his life. ;)
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2014, 02:13:18 PM »
All of the research and videos I've watched tell me to do it the way I've done it, but I seem to be having hits or misses. Mostly misses. I'm not too bothered by it because once it's sealed up, you won't see much anyway. I won't show you my first attempt (or second or third) of casting the roof section. That's just plain embarrassing.
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2014, 08:22:46 PM »
<...> I won't show you my first attempt (or second or third) of casting the roof section. That's just plain embarrassing.


Nothing to be embarrassed about.

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Show the piece and the mould(s). Maybe we can help a bit.

I'd echo Wombat's advice regarding the seat.  Mount the pouring stub on the seat's bottom. Instead of using just a thin sprue, use plastic rod, a LEGO brick, modelling clay or whathaveyou to make a pouring stub almost as big as the seat's bottom. That should make it easier for any trapped air to get out. Maybe google "resin ejection seat" to see how others have done it.
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2014, 08:56:30 PM »
I too, am a novice resin caster, see my VV-22 thread for proof.

I've found that if I flex/squeeze the two-part mold, it helps eliminate some of the larger bubbles, but at the cost of some added flash around the edges.  The flash is easily cleaned off, so I think it's an acceptable trade-off to get better results.

I am interested in the motors you're using, what kind are they and where did you get them?  I'd like to have a go at motorizing one of my future projects, if for no other reason that to see if I can do it.

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2014, 01:55:06 AM »
One trick is to pour talcum powder into the mold, then knock most of it out. The remaining talcum powder will suck the resin into most areas and will reduce voids and bubbles. For a first attempt, those seats aren't too bad. Since they are (or can be) flat bottomed, you can just attach them to a flat surface, build up a Lego dam around them and make a 1 piece mold. Then just pour the resin into the bottom.

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2014, 06:21:47 AM »
Thanks for the tips guys. Funnily enough, I am using a one piece mold. It was originally a 2 piece mold but I realised that it only needed to be one, and the main shape of the chairs was already incorporated in the lower half.
I'm yielding better results now that I use one. I also place the mold on top of the air compressor and turn it on as a way to bring the air bubbles up to the top. That works well, especially when making the mold. I've run out of silicone rubber so will have to buy some more when I return from holidays early next year.
The talc trick does work OK, but I often wonder whether if it somehow intrudes on the chemical reaction of the resin or if it leaves a grainy finish. I haven't seen any evidence mind you to say it does.

This will build will be on hold for 4 weeks while I go back home to NZ for Xmas.
I made a start on the interior last night and fixed up the nose, so I'll post some pics a bit later today

Forgot to add the info about the motors. They are from those little RC helicopters. I got a whole heap of them from my mate who works in a hobby shop. He gets a lot of broken helps and seeing as most of them are irreparable he just throws them away. However, the motors work just fine, so he gave me about  a dozen or so carcasses where by I removed the motors. Some are as small as 1cm. These ones are just over 2cm long.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:19:20 PM by Madhatter »
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2014, 01:27:28 PM »
OK, back yet again but this time with pictures :)

I have done the nose and now you can't see where there was a gun placement - which is what I was aiming for :)
I've also made a start on detailing the interior. It's a small start but a start none the less. I made a curtain out of tissue paper and cut some sheet styrene out in the shape of the bulk heads. From all the pictures I have of flying boat interiors, I would be wrong to leave them as they were. It just wouldn't look right. They look a bit messy now, but after a coat of paint, it should look better. I'm also going to print some scaled pictures to hang on the walls to give it a more classy look. I'm having doubts about the chairs now - they don't look luxuriousness enough. I may just have to scratch build my own seat and then cast off a number of them. This won't be done until I get back from holidays though.











Primed:



well, that's it for now. Thanks again for stopping by
MH
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:30:51 PM by Madhatter »
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Offline fightingirish

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2014, 08:43:54 PM »
A fictional, privately owned and civilised version of the Blohm & Voss BV 222 is shown in the the comic book "Blake and Mortimer 18 - The Gondwana Shrine".
It is called "(The) Flying Yacht".  ;)  8)


Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2014, 12:29:27 PM »
Well - that's certainly different alright! Thanks for posting that :)
No update sorry - I have been fighting the motors - more over - just one - which has decided not to work - AFTER I had installed it and glued and let dry. It has not been a fun project so far
So, it's off the table now until I get back from holidays in NZ
Plenty of time to think how I'll paint this plane

Have a great Christmas and a safe New Year's fellas and I'll see you all next year
till then
Si
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2014, 01:11:36 PM »
Same to you, mate!

Have a good one! :)
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2015, 08:35:16 PM »
Greetings all

Well, after finishing off the 787 and the Core ship, I am back again with the mighty BV-222

I have made some head way and soon things will start to fall into place more. At the moment, I'm just trying to concentrate on internal details.

I have painted and lit the top floor and all the individual tables and chairs etc and also the cockpit seats

And, I have built my own passenger seat that looks more like a passenger plane seat than a cafe chair. I made the basic frame and then made Milliputt cushions. I am beginning to really like this stuff. I've used it to fill in the holes on the top panel where the gun turrets were and it looks good

Speaking of filling in holes, I am having a few issues trying to fill in the sides of the fuselage where the guns used to stick out. I think I've filled, it in, sanded it back, primered and then refilled again and so on about 3 times. I'm at the point where I may just cut out the shape from ultra-thin styrene and sand it back more.

And the nose is finished too :) I've also re-scribed it - something which I am not entirely comfortable with just yet - but I am getting the hang of it

Enough words, time to see where I am at:







Top floor:















Here you can just one side if the fight I am having trying to get those depressions filled and level with the rest of the surface. The Putty keeps shrinking after a day and I find myself doing it all over again. This is where I'm thinking of using shaped ultra thin styrene to fill in the hole a bit and sanding it back.





And lastly, the nose and top floor cover.Scribed and filled and shaped. They've come out well I think. I'm happy with them anyway







Well, that's all for now, but thanks for stopping in

Till then

MH
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2015, 09:18:52 AM »
That's the problem with Milliput, it shrinks.

I stopped using it some time ago & converted to Aves Apoxy Sculpt. Awesome stuff; cleans up & can be smoothed with water, doesn't shrink, sticks to most plastics, has very similar sanding properties to styrene.

Like most things Apoxy Sculpt has its issues - it doesn't stick in shallow depressions very well (I tend to stipple on tube putty to rough up the surface & it sticks quite well to that, after it has thoroughly dried/cured) &, if not mixed correctly, it can be brittle & flaky or take aeons to cure.
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2015, 02:41:07 PM »
I used Tamiya Grey putty on the panels and that's what keep shrinking. I haven
t had any issues with milliputt shrinking - but that's not to say I won't. So far, it's been great and it's what I used on the nose and on the roof section with success. .
I have just finished fixing those areas with a panel of really thin styrene cut to size. If it wasn't for the grey against the white, you wouldn't know they were there. I will sand the edges down more once it's all dried etc and it'll be even better.
I finished installing the lights into their sockets last night and tonight, I will do the final wiring up.
If anyone knows where to get 1/72 civilian passengers and pilot figures please let me know. Thanks :)
MH
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Offline jcf

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2015, 03:05:34 PM »
The Tamiya Gray, or any other 'lacquer' spot/finishing putty will always shrink as they require the evaporation
of the volatile thinners to harden. Epoxies like Aves, Milliput etc. rarely shrink as their curing process is completely
exothermically chemically reactive, in udder woids the two bits o goo don't do shit unless mixed in the correct quantities.
Too be blunt if Milliput or a similar two-part epoxy compound doesn't harden harden correctly, it's either old (past it's shelf life)
or you've stuffed up the mixing instructions. I can say this absolutely after many years working with epoxy compounds of numerous types in a variety of work situations.

My personal preference is too fill hole/voids with styrene sheets/chunks/bit and then glaze over with an epoxy compound
followed by the various lacquer glazing putty options, all dependent on personal choice, and then a nice high-solids primer
a bunch o' sanding stages.
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2015, 08:15:36 PM »
I managed to get the panels fixed and now they look so much better. I have yet to sand the edges down but I'll start that tonight or tomorrow.
In the mean time, all the lighting is installed and operational. A total of 8 SMD's have been employed to do the job. I'm still trying to figure the best way to connect the wings to the body and be able to "plug" them in. I'm thinking I may have to glue on each wing to the fuselage while they are still separate pieces but the weight of the wings will put a fair bit of pressure on the fuselage join when it will come to that stage of mating the 2 together. I'm sure I'll manage....

Here's where it all is at the moment.

















As I was uploading these images, I was looking at the seat I made and although it looks OK, it's actually too big, so I'll have to remake it but smaller, which won't be a problem. I won't make those marks up the middle of the back cushion this time.

I will think about adding some wiring to the back of the radio in the back ass well - just because I can. I doubt you'll see much once the halves are closed up - despite the lighting - the windows are pretty small

Well, that's it for tonight

thanks for stopping in

MH
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2015, 10:38:53 PM »
I'm still trying to figure the best way to connect the wings to the body and be able to "plug" them in. I'm thinking I may have to glue on each wing to the fuselage while they are still separate pieces but the weight of the wings will put a fair bit of pressure on the fuselage join when it will come to that stage of mating the 2 together. I'm sure I'll manage....
I'd suggest some build jigs at this point, simply to hold everything in the proper relationships without distorting all the structure.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2015, 01:11:47 AM »
The lights look great. For 1/72 pilots and passengers, the Preiser 72510 set is good. They're from the 1920-30s, but should work into the 40s-50s. Here are some pics: http://www.ms-plus.com/14256

and http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/review.aspx?id=793 This store in Australia carries it: http://www.brunelhobbies.com.au/Preiser/preiserFigures.htm


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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2015, 05:30:46 AM »
Good to see this one back on.

Very nice painting work on the interior

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2015, 05:00:06 PM »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2015, 07:30:29 AM »
Thanks for those links, they're almost exactly what I want. Will need to invest in some of those figures
Can't have an in-flight plane with no crew or passengers - that'd be weird
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Offline KiwiZac

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2015, 03:12:02 AM »
This keeps getting better and better. Your scribing is excellent! And the lighting is great - I imagine one or two passengers reading in their seats.
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Offline jcf

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2015, 10:56:32 AM »
Very nice, and after looking at pics in the Ju 90 and Fw 200 books in the 'Vom Original zum Modell' series
yer passenger seat doesn't look 'oversize'. Today's seats are just undersized. ;)
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2015, 04:05:08 AM »
That's some astonishing detail work! It's got to take the patience of a saint to pull off, and you've done so magnificently!

Brian da Basher

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2015, 04:39:20 PM »
thanks guys- sorry I am a bit late in replying..
I had am idea/brain fart for a scheme and a plausible idea on how it could work. What about a Virgin scheme? It's not like Richard Branson doesn't have enough money to lift up the one from the bottom of the sea and have it refitted to on of his aircraft?
Bad idea and stick with something from the 40's/50's or not?
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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2015, 03:02:10 AM »
Your call.  Will look great regardless.
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2015, 06:45:15 PM »
greetings everyone

Well, I have finally got some more silicone rubber to make molds of the new seats, so most of my time since getting it has been to cast some copies....lots of copies. 30 to be exact.

The seats are all painted and installed - and so are the passengers. I found a bag of 25 figures in 1/76 scale - not quite 1/72 but they're just there for effect. I haven't gone completely to town on the interior as you won't really see much at all and what you will see will be people in chairs.

I've tried to go for a rich colour palette for the walls and bulk heads while keeping a subtle tan colour for the floors and ceiling. Should be just right with the warm white SMD's. I added a red stripe to represent the "Red Carpet". Not sure if that was a good idea or not, but it's there now.

All the people are in different posses and states of movement -well, more sitting down than moving but there is a woman waving to someone and an old man with a walking stick try to get into or out of his chair - which yes - are a tad over sized but I am, leaving them as is. Again  this is more than what you'll see at the end :)

I have also settled on a paint job: a modified Ansett scheme. Not sure how I'm going to do the black and red stripe though - it will be painted on as I don't have a printer so can not print my own decals (another skill I'd like to learn) I'll work it out :)















Well, that's all for now. Next update should be getting read to paint

Thanks for looking in

MH
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Offline Tophe

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2015, 11:40:29 PM »
Wow!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2015, 02:20:21 AM »
Dammmn!!!  That's impressive!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2015, 03:51:42 AM »
The rear passenger compartment looks like a perfect set up for an in-flight movie presentation :)

Stepped seating so those in the back can see over the others in front of them. 
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2015, 06:09:20 PM »
Bloody brill, old boy! :)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #67 on: February 18, 2015, 05:14:58 PM »
Thanks guys

Having issues with the engines. All the motors are working individually but don't work at all when I wire the 2 up at the same time. I'm hoping the problem is a simple matter of voltage. They ( by which I  mean the entire wing with all 3 motors) work individually but the minute i hook them up together, only one single motor works. Im testing them with a 9v battery, so I'm hopeful that by mugging them into the mains I will have all 6 running
Otherwise, it'll be another dud in the engineering department of my man cave :(

(Edited because even I couldn't understand what I wrote)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 07:51:00 PM by Madhatter »
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Offline buzzbomb

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #68 on: February 18, 2015, 07:41:45 PM »
Simon had a similar problem with the airship lighting. It turned out to be an amperage thing. Those 9v block batteries don't have much oomph, so I reckon a mains unit with say 2 amps would be ok

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2015, 07:52:31 PM »
Yeah, I remember that. That's what I immediately thought that voltage was the problem. The lights work though
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2015, 08:13:38 AM »
That passenger section is just off-the-charts amazing.

The detail is simply astonishing! Going so far as adding figures is a real testament to your boundless talent!

Brian da Basher

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #71 on: February 24, 2015, 12:26:16 PM »
thanks Brian

Time to update this thread. I haven't got any further with the interior - I think I'll leave it as it is for now. I am trying to find a 1/72 commercial pilot figure (or 2() but I haven't had any luck It would be a bit weird and un-nerving for the passengers if the plot came out wearing a full flight suit and what not.I have also pulled the pin on the electric motors for the props - Ii was having too many issues getting power to them and getting them all to spin at once and not in a pulsating way like I was experiencing. Kinda ruins the inflight look though. Oh well...

Interior as is:







I have also almost finished the wings - I still have one to go. I have modified the scheme I'm doing slightly to incorporate the red on the cowlings. The one in real life doesn't have that red surround - but I think it'll look right once it's done. I just need to tone the weathering down slightly. It's all done using paint and pigments.











Well, that's all for a little while as I am going to be starting in the sci-fi group build, so my attention will be on that until I'm done. If I do anything on this, I'll update it if it's worth it.

If you know where I can get 1/72 commercial pilots from, please let me know

Thanks

MH
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Offline buzzbomb

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2015, 12:48:16 PM »
Really nice work on that paint job.

You probably need something like this

According to the Airfix Tribute forum from a  Piper Cherokee Arrow.
I seem to have an inlking that the Ford Trimotor had similar crew


Or just use something you have in the Self Loading Cargo (Passengers) and build a new hat.

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2015, 07:04:09 AM »
Just brilliant. Loving the addition of passengers to the cabin.
"He's more real-world now than whif..."

Offline Frank3k

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2015, 08:26:22 AM »
Can you try the engines and lights again with a largish (25uf - 100uf) capacitor between + and - ?

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2015, 10:26:55 AM »
Can you try the engines and lights again with a largish (25uf - 100uf) capacitor between + and - ?

Not any more - I cut the wires off the wings for the engines. I tried everything I could think of to control the flow of power but I still ended up ith the same no-action result.
the lights still work but there must have been something different about one or each motor to cause it.each motor had the same resistor soldered to it, so that shold have eliminated that weird pulsing effect I was getting when both wings were wired to the same source.
I have resigned myself to keeping electronis simple from now on. It'll save me some pride!
On a seperate but joined note - my new SMD's arrived today and man are theyt tiny! Like one of them is 0.08mm long by 0.04 wide!! Tiny! Love it and its going to be easy to wire them all up to as they all use copper wire with no resistor soldered to each one so I can parallel them easily
2 Reasons why a model is better than a wife:
1) A model doesn't get jealous when you look at another model
2) A model doesn't yell at you for spending money on another model