Author Topic: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII  (Read 2435 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« on: June 02, 2013, 04:41:32 PM »
In WWI Japan was part of the Allied side.  What if the same happened in WWII?

What may this lead to?  Under what circumstances might it have occurred?
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 04:46:54 PM »
A6M Zeros escorting bombers to Berlin?
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 07:32:32 PM »
Much of the trouble between the US & Japan was regarding trade competition in the Asia-Pacific region. So-o....

What about if Japan & the US signed an agreement dividing the Asia-Pacific region into trade zones in mid-to-late-30's, thereby reducing/removing Japan/US tension?

???

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 10:59:16 PM »
I like it, I wonder if Japan joining the Allies in 1939 would be at the cost of American support, perhaps reinforcing their neutrality, i.e. no lend lease and spooking the Soviets and Germans into tightening their early alliance.

Japans alliance with the UK was ended as part of the Washington treaty in 1921 and I believe it was the end of this alliance and Japans poor treatment by the US in the treaty negotiations that led to much of their, some would say justified, insecurity and resulting expansionist policies.  Washington also did over the UK as while they had parity with the US on paper, most of their fleet consisted of earlier construction that while not old enough to be scrapped under the conditions of the treaty were smaller, less capable, pre war designs where much of the US fleet was larger newer and more capable ships.  In addition the Dominion navies were also counted in the UKs totals also reducing the core strength of the RN.

No a thought I had in relation to the UK finding a work around on the Washington treaty was that they excised the dominion navies from the RN having each stand as an independent entity.  As part of this excision each of the new independent Navies would be gifted older / superseded RN tonnage, say the Renowns to the RAN, Tiger to the RNZN and some of the Queen Elizabeths gifted to Canada.  Possibly the large light cruisers to Australia and Canada for conversion to carriers.  The RN sheds their oldest, weakest ships and is able to build new treaty ships that are more advanced and capable than the USNs newest and with this new confidant position are able to back Japans quest for parity.  This support removes one of the main reasons for going to war in 1941 and reaffirms the existing friendship leading to Japan re-joining in formal alliance with the start of WWII.

This would give you a larger more capable Commonwealth Fleet, a larger more powerful and allied Japanese fleet, a more isolationist US and a closer Germany and USSR, with Japan on the UKs side Hitler would likely have accepted Spain into the fold.

Offline jcf

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Re: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 11:35:35 AM »
US and Japanese competition in the Pacific goes back to the 1890s, Japan being 'on' the side of
the Entente in WWI was a result of their imperial ambitions, they wanted a piece of the post-war pie,
and relationship with Great Britain.
It had bupkus to do with 'making the world safe for democracy' or any of the other BS spouted
by the 'good guys' in WWI.

Realistically speaking, in the WWII period the Empire of Japan had nothing to gain by allying
themselves with the "democracies". Just like Hitler and the Nazis they were in the business of
empire building, and saw the existing European colonial powers and the US as standing in the
way of their destiny.

So, if you want Japan on the Allied side in 1939-45, it will have to be a very different Japan which
will require major political, and social, changes in post-Meiji Japan. You'd need a Republican, rather
than an Imperial Japan. No First Sino-Japanese War (1894-95), and no Russo-Japanese War would
also help as both fed the power and influence of the Imperial militarists.
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 01:23:32 PM »
US and Japanese competition in the Pacific goes back to the 1890s, Japan being 'on' the side of
the Entente in WWI was a result of their imperial ambitions, they wanted a piece of the post-war pie,
and relationship with Great Britain.
It had bupkus to do with 'making the world safe for democracy' or any of the other BS spouted
by the 'good guys' in WWI.

Realistically speaking, in the WWII period the Empire of Japan had nothing to gain by allying
themselves with the "democracies". Just like Hitler and the Nazis they were in the business of
empire building, and saw the existing European colonial powers and the US as standing in the
way of their destiny.

So, if you want Japan on the Allied side in 1939-45, it will have to be a very different Japan which
will require major political, and social, changes in post-Meiji Japan. You'd need a Republican, rather
than an Imperial Japan. No First Sino-Japanese War (1894-95), and no Russo-Japanese War would
also help as both fed the power and influence of the Imperial militarists.

Quite true on all points.

Japan was a VERY different place, both politically and socially, before WWII, diametrically opposed to many of the values exercised by the allies in that conflict.

The level of ethnic superiority they conducted themselves with toward their neighbors was on par with Hitler himself; they looked down on all around them and saw it as their manifest destiny to lord over others.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2013, 02:17:23 AM »
I suppose another spin out of such a scenario might be Japanese aircraft with Merlins rather than DB601s...

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Japan fights on Alled side in WWII
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2013, 07:15:16 AM »
RN FAA Zeros, too late for Norway but would fit the time line for the Med.

Offline apophenia

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