Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Land => Topic started by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 28, 2016, 02:11:45 PM

Title: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 28, 2016, 02:11:45 PM
A place to discuss crew served weapons normally seen in use and organic to infantry units for direct and indirect fire support.  Crew served weapons such as the mortar, recoilless rifle, machine gun, and anti-tank guided missile launcher systems and associated equipment. 

I needed a place to post this little gem that I found today while reviewing a rather old book on ammunition. 
What caught my eye in the attached image was:
1.  It is a WOMBAT 120mm RR weapon
2.  Ammunition is correctly displayed with the individual rounds still inside of the container with just the base of the cartridge exposed for access. 
3.  The gunner is peering through an not often seen A/N TVS-5 Crew Served Weapons Night Vision Sight (aka "Starlight Scope"). 

Feel free to add other crew served weapons to the topic for discussion. 
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: LemonJello on November 28, 2016, 08:55:34 PM
Is that a spotting rifle mounted above the RR? The one in the background is a little more apparent.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Old Wombat on November 28, 2016, 09:35:19 PM
Yep, just part hidden by the scope.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 29, 2016, 02:15:53 AM
fit a couple of these to some vehicles: 

XM307 Advanced Crew Served Weapon (was originally developed under the OCSW or Objective Crew Served Weapon project but cancelled in 2007):

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/XM307-01.jpg/1498px-XM307-01.jpg)

It was 25mm.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Story on June 16, 2017, 07:05:50 PM
Is that a spotting rifle mounted above the RR? The one in the background is a little more apparent.


M-8C Spotting Rifle
http://www.warboats.org/mst2bremmer/stoner_ord_notes/stonerhtml/RECOILLESS_RIFLE.htm (http://www.warboats.org/mst2bremmer/stoner_ord_notes/stonerhtml/RECOILLESS_RIFLE.htm)

If suitably motivated, the spotting rifle cartridges can be made from cut-down .50 cal Browning brass.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on June 17, 2017, 02:10:45 AM
M-8C Spotting Rifle <snip> If suitably motivated, the spotting rifle cartridges can be made from cut-down .50 cal Browning brass.


If suitably motivated the M8C Spotting Rifle would be replaced with a laser rangefinder and a suitable auto-ranging weapons telescope to adjust for elevation/azimuth :)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Story on August 04, 2017, 06:04:45 AM
I'd never heard of the Buzogányvető before, until I tripped over it on Shapeways. Comes in 1/72nd, 1/100th & 1/144th.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635)

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M)

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/ (http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 05, 2017, 01:39:46 AM
I'd never heard of the Buzogányvető before, until I tripped over it on Shapeways. Comes in 1/72nd, 1/100th & 1/144th.
[url]https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635[/url] ([url]https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635[/url])

 [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M[/url] ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M[/url])

[url]http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/[/url] ([url]http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/[/url])


First time I read about it was in Colin Gee's Red Gambit series.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Story on February 06, 2018, 10:09:32 AM
Posted primarily for the TOW wedged into an MRAP turret, but also for Grunt-level innovation.
https://taskandpurpose.com/5-battlefield-innovations-that-came-from-the-rank-and-file-troops/ (https://taskandpurpose.com/5-battlefield-innovations-that-came-from-the-rank-and-file-troops/)

#5 can also be down with the old ALICE pack (https://www.armysurplusworld.com/us-gi-military-surplus-used-medium-olive-drab-alice-pack-16777) and 750 rounds 7.62NATO belted in the main compartment for the M60. Ask me hows I knows dat.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: ChernayaAkula on May 16, 2019, 05:46:44 AM
Both found via the "Shitty Technicals" subredit on reddit. LINK! (https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/)

Greek patrol boat armed with M40 recoilless rifle, 1980s

(https://preview.redd.it/i5sjiathb2v21.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=469fa8a1774b15dd9c01d760c43116fcd64b2343)
SOURCE (https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/bifiit/greek_patrol_boat_armed_with_m40_recoilless_rifle/)


Mortar bike

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/57/08/45/5708452765c1dd324fcfa3a3c1f084b4.jpg)
SOURCE (https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/comments/bigzrm/mortar_bike_non_shitty_sunday/)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 17, 2019, 01:28:23 AM
That Mortar bike is cool.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Frank3k on May 17, 2019, 04:07:46 AM
It looks like this 1/35 product from Zvezda:

(https://cdn3.volusion.com/bmfcy.fjqhr/v/vspfiles/photos/ZV3651-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on May 17, 2019, 05:37:11 AM
Shoot and Scoot...


Also do not forget the French Vespa 159 TAP (Troupes AéroPortées) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP) that is armed with a 75mm Recoilless Rifle used as the seat for the rider.

More at Wikipedia: (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Vespa_militare2.JPG/300px-Vespa_militare2.JPG) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2019, 02:36:19 AM
It looks like this 1/35 product from Zvezda:

([url]https://cdn3.volusion.com/bmfcy.fjqhr/v/vspfiles/photos/ZV3651-2.jpg[/url])


Exactly and here is the box:

(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/0/5/103005-10244-pristine.jpg)

Nice find Frank.

You can also see much more on these in this pdf:  http://www.russianiron.com/eafranke_ural/Part%20XVII%20Motorcycle-Mounted%20Mortars.pdf (http://www.russianiron.com/eafranke_ural/Part%20XVII%20Motorcycle-Mounted%20Mortars.pdf) - BTW can someone tell me what is shown on the  Landing “Excelsior” page?

I really like this idea.  It seems so elegant.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2019, 02:43:03 AM
Taking the above concept further, one idea I have had planned for years (and which I believe I have mentioned before) is to do a model of a West German Cold War (probably set in a '70s/'80s scenario) anti-tank motorcycle side car arrangement using something like a MILAN ATGW in the side car.  The idea being that the team would operate in a short and scoot style way keeping ahead of Soviet tank hordes...
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2019, 03:02:11 AM
In a similar vein:

Hungarian WW2 motorcycle with antitank rifle sidecar:

(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/46/6a/cd/466acd5e0042679dfe742791ad89be69.jpg)

Soviet M72 motorcycle with anti tank rifle:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/b0/7c/92b07cf0bc9ae21e1356cfe3b91f1314.jpg)

Swiss Soldiers with 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle in tow:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/77/7d/d4777d0e5962598ef2deee77d410e4ac.png)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on May 18, 2019, 03:09:41 AM
Last image is actually Swiss Soldiers and that is a Swiss 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle (https://www.forgottenweapons.com/swiss-tankbuchse-41-semiauto-antitank-rifle/).  Html has video and history.

From Fandom > Gun Wiki > 24 mm Tankbüchse 41 (https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/24_mm_Tankb%C3%BCchse_41)





***added additional link on subject. - jjf
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2019, 03:13:28 AM
Shoot and Scoot...


Also do not forget the French Vespa 159 TAP (Troupes AéroPortées) ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP[/url]) that is armed with a 75mm Recoilless Rifle used as the seat for the rider.

More at Wikipedia: ([url]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Vespa_militare2.JPG/300px-Vespa_militare2.JPG[/url]) ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP[/url])


This is really small and I find the riding position amusing (look closely where the seat is):

(https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/19.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B4JbNvh.jpg)

One can theoretically get a kit of it in 1/35 too:

(http://www.phpshopxml.com/client/azimut/img/AZI10045.jpg)

I say theoretically since it is a Azimut Limited Edition kit and thus nearly impossible to get any purchases from those thieves.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2019, 03:14:58 AM
Last image is actually Swiss Soldiers and that is a Swiss 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle (https://www.forgottenweapons.com/swiss-tankbuchse-41-semiauto-antitank-rifle/).  Html has video and history.

Thanks fo the correction - have now updated.
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on May 18, 2019, 03:16:48 AM
The other "tell" was the helmets on the two soldiers :)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2019, 03:26:03 AM
More:

20mm Madsen:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TS-xzb12aSg/Ss70tr97suI/AAAAAAAADLM/sO03bl1g0p4/s1600/nimbus20mm_1.jpg)

(http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/site_graphics/Motorcycles/Motorcycle-with-Lewis-gun---MIKAN-No--3613174.jpg)

Answering my own question above, it seams as though this was a 37mm anti-tank gun being trialled - potentially over 400 of these were actually made:

(http://www.hdforums.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Russian01.jpg)

And one showing the earlier Mortar in use:

(http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/16/14/02/21/72_i_a10.jpg)

From 1917 - Matchless Motorcycle with Machine Gun intended for Russian Army but not used:

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/11/29BAED5300000578-3129593-image-m-25_1434625171655.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/12/29BAF44A00000578-3129593-image-m-27_1434625329513.jpg)

NYC Women's Machine Gun Squad Police Reserves 1918:

(https://external-preview.redd.it/_3UcaeLMioR6IlHjWgM7bg8G6kSqnZ-jTc3VC7M_lvk.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b363967d1fc52b7c3c771498308be09a7d119ee3)

Ckm wz.30 mounted on a Sokol 1000 sidecar with handle and sights adapted for Anti Aircraft Use:

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-j3S-grhxoo8/Vsi5vEicaFI/AAAAAAAADbY/0nv3nsTacGc/s640/Soko%CC%81%C5%82_1000_z_CKM_przeciwlotniczym.jpg)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 18, 2019, 03:28:25 AM
Going back to the Hungarian one posted earlier, it seems there is an effort to produce a kit of this:

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/021/448/310/6ba322034d994cda68a61d4147175906_original.jpeg?ixlib=rb-2.0.0&crop=faces&w=1552&h=873&fit=crop&v=1527976879&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=2393f97fc087efe82b551b00d256d543)

See here:  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dogtagminiatures/28mm-ww2-hungarian-army/updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dogtagminiatures/28mm-ww2-hungarian-army/updates)
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on May 18, 2019, 04:08:27 AM
The more manageable Solothurn S-18/100 20mm AT/AM Weapon chambered in 20X105B is also avaialble from CMK under their "Blitz" product line. 
Link: CMK (129-B35095) 1/35th scale WW2 Swiss Solothurn S-18/100 Anti Tank Rifle. (https://www.cmkkits.com/en/detail-sets-accessories/swiss-wwii-anti-tank-rifle-solothurn-s-18-100/) 
Wikipedia > Solothurn S-18/100 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solothurn_S-18/100)


CMK also offers a resin kit of the larger S-18/1000 that was chambered for the 20X138B cartridge with carriage/ground mount.  It has been hard to find since initial release.  I will say that it is a much appreciated improvement over the white metal kit that was offered years ago (company unknown) and the resin model kit from Criel Model of Italy which is a bit lean on details and also a bit too flimsy looking. 
Link: CMK (129-3140) 1/35th scale WW2 Solothurn 20mm Anti-Tank Rifle Solothurn S-18/1000 w/wheeled carriage. (https://www.cmkkits.com/en/detail-sets-accessories/129-3140/)
Wikipedia > Solothurn S-18/1000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solothurn_S-18/1000) 
Title: Re: Crew Served Weapons
Post by: Story on May 18, 2019, 10:05:15 AM
Anyone ever hear of a "Hell Cannon"?  Necessity being the mother of invention, it fires propane canisters filled with HE.
http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/05/diy-weapons-in-syria-hell-cannon.html (http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/05/diy-weapons-in-syria-hell-cannon.html)


See also https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2015/08/21/hell-cannons-from-minor-nuisance-to-major-threat-the-evolution-of-syrian-opposition-siege-artillery/ (https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2015/08/21/hell-cannons-from-minor-nuisance-to-major-threat-the-evolution-of-syrian-opposition-siege-artillery/)

Firing video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd6_qZ_TJ5A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd6_qZ_TJ5A)

Since the real ones are made out of spare parts and scrap (with lots of variations) it would seem to be an ideal 1:35th scale subject.  However, the trepidatious can always get this 1:72nd scale kit https://internethobbies.com/products/ace-military-1-72-hell-cannon-syrian-artillery-kit (https://internethobbies.com/products/ace-military-1-72-hell-cannon-syrian-artillery-kit)